043 Anas Ghazi: How to Create Value For Anyone in Any Organization?

ANAS GHAZI 0:00
People have ups and downs all the time. But my mom has told me and my four sisters is that everyone falls, what defines you is how quickly and how gracefully you get up. And that's the story because I think a lot of times people see your Instagram version of live your LinkedIn version of live, what you share on Twitter, but that's truly Just a tip of the iceberg of who you are. We are all rooted by that submerged iceberg of pain, hardship, overcoming resilience, and I think what people need to see that because you It takes many nights too many nights to be an overnight success. And I think it's to shed light on a what success means to different people. But what that journey has been with the bottom of the iceberg.

ANNOUNCER 0:40
This episode is brought to you by CK LIN mindset coaching for leaders, entrepreneurs and high achievers. Having a clear mind will empower you to tap into your true potential and achieve extraordinary results with more ease and freedom. Visit www.talkwithCK.com and apply for a free clarity session today

CK LIN 1:01
What will make this podcast, a super homerun podcast for you.

ANAS GHAZI 1:12
It would be if it could make a difference in people's lives, if it could inspire people to not give up on what their goals are, what their dreams are, what the aspirations are, because we all face hardships, myself included, but it's how do you overcome them without losing focus of what it is that you're trying to achieve. So if this could help someone continue down that path, that would be brilliant. I think one of the pieces that I feel connected to you about is every time I read some of your content, and this The great thing about content, you never know the kind of day someone's having. And a small piece of wisdom of any sort could make someone's day or push them in the right direction of where they're wanting to go, even when it feels hard. So I'm hoping this podcast when people feel that they're experiencing hardship, depending on the day that they're having, this helps them get to the next place. And just to continue the good fight to become the best person they want to be.

CK LIN 2:09
That's beautiful. So I want to actually bring you namesake just a little bit because yeah share with me before we started recording we name is your first name your last name and going to that a little bit.

ANAS GHAZI 2:21
So my first name is Anas and in Arabic it's means humanity. It's actually based on a prayer Coursera Anas(spelling?) us and it's about God's creation and humanity as a whole. And my last name is Ghazi, which means warrior poet for me. So just putting those two together, I was named by my mother. It's a person who's trying to be a warrior of thought ultimately,

CK LIN 2:45
what a perfect guest. The noble warrior podcast

ANAS GHAZI 2:48
Yes, I know. I know. You can't play these things.

CK LIN 2:52
It's perfect. It's all it's all perfect. I really appreciate you being here. Thank you. And I know they reach out to me and say hey, I have a story I wanted to share. Right? And I'm so glad that we met right as right away. There's a resonance. Just your name, your presence, your way of being. So tell us a little bit about why, why your desire to help people overcome hardship, because everyone has an origin story. And I'm here, here's my core belief. Our biggest superpower, our highest intention comes from our core wounds. And my desire to empower people to alleviate suffering, to inspire them to really step into the purpose mostly came from my own journey. When I first started, I was following the status quo. Life should go this way, in a very rigid way. And then throughout the journey of following the path of science and engineering to entrepreneurship to now where I'm at right now, sharing wisdom. It's, one could say, Wow, he's been all over the place. But I would say, no, the core through line of my life has been the pursuit of wisdom. I just didn't have the words for that. So share with us little bit of your origin story of why this desire to share to alleviate struggle, adversity hardship.

ANAS GHAZI 4:34
So there's a couple pieces to that, right. So I think I have to just take it back to my childhood and how I was raised and so forth. So I was born raised in the UK. My mother is over Indian Burmese to set my father's a Bostonian Turkish descent. and raised in the UK, my, my parents, both them come from these phenomenal families of extreme fortitude, grandfather, what's what he's called what's called a jogador a landowner and that's generational. To being one of the first mattress giants of India to my father and his family being in Pakistan during the time of the partition and his his family's journey to my father leaving England box not for England at the age of 18 to go to school. So we came from this I come from this lineage of people who are entrepreneurs and believers and strivers who have done extremely well. Parents got married moved to the UK and then we went from being this family of having haves to having a you know country house in Norwich, England and all the rest of it to my father passed away when I was three and my mother be a widower at 28 with five children youngest being three children oldest being nine Yeah. So foreign woman in a ultimately a new land that she wasn't a native of. And so we went from having all these things to my mother sewing teddy bears for us and our coats. And you know, we had a renter in our house because we needed money to you know, My seven was nine making samosas for a theme park called Chessington zoo. So we we've seen I, my family and I, we've seen the bifurcation of life haves have nots. And one of my biggest things as a child of I've always been a dreamer, big time dreamer, I could get lost in my thoughts even as a child. So I think having those aspirations of this is what I want my life to be like. And one of the core values My mother has instilled in all of us is, you're not defined by who you are at the moment because most moments change. You define who you are on the inside and where you come from. So we're very proud family about lineage and, you know, this idea of a bloodline. It's more so the characteristics that you imbibe as a bloodline. So my mother, like who I remember the first time we went to a home in India is practically palatial to seeing that show. What is it Felicia, it's like a palace to seeing how her life was in England where, you know, we lived in a very modest home and so forth. But like, Mommy, you came from this. You're living like this and she said that shouldn't matter, what does matter is who you are as a person, your character and your work ethic, and not to be defined by the failures that you have in life, but to come above. So back to your question in terms of, you know, what's the story to share, it's that it's people have ups and downs all the time. And I'm gonna reference my Mom a lot, I'm just going to be honest. People have ups and downs all the time. But my mom has told me and my four sisters is that everyone falls, what defines you is how quickly and how gracefully you get up. And that's the story because I think a lot of times people see your Instagram version of life your LinkedIn version of life, what you share on Twitter. That's truly just the tip of the iceberg of who you are. We are all rooted by that submerged iceberg of pain, hardship, overcoming resilience, and I think more people need to see that because you It takes many night, many nights to be an overnight success. And I think it's to shed light on a what success means different people but what that journey has been with the bottom of that iceberg

CK LIN 8:01
So beautiful in mom was quite a master teacher for you.

ANAS GHAZI 8:05
Oh, absolutely, absolutely still is to this day place of safety for all my siblings and I were like grown. But till this day, we all speak to my mom every day, or every day. We are very, very, very active spoke to my mom all the way here. We're very close knit family and I think fortunate. But that also happens and I've read a lot of psychology books on this when a parent passes away, siblings, families tend to become even closer. So we've always been like this Armada. And as my mom would say, We're like five fingers on one hand when you when you're together your strongest. So we've, it's just genetically who we are. That's beautiful. Well, but not everyone's so blessed to have such a mother. Right, right. So what a blessing. You had mentioned. resilience, you had mentioned grace. So put myself in a position of my lisners. Because it's easy, not easy, simple to say, yeah, just pick yourself back up with grace. But in that moment, when you're being punched by life, or your adversity or challenges, it's quite challenging to actually embody that operationalize that. Right. Right. So tell us a little bit about how do you move from challenge to grace in that moment.

And I literally just had this happen to me this week, where there was something I'd really worked for I deserved, and I was very passionate about and for the greater good step back from it. And it was hard. I mean, it was got a stress headache and all the rest of it in the moment. I'm like, What the heck is happening? Because there are moments when you get punched in the face that you lose faith in humanity, right? And you're like, How can this be have people that have morals anymore? Do people don't stick by their words? Yeah. But also that the environment around you when people do the ugly, what the heck is going on? So when you're in that moment, I think the piece that has worked for me is a now just taking time and realizing that when things don't work out, it's in that moment. It's just not working out for this moment. It doesn't impact the rest of my life, unless I let it. And so for me, it's I mean, it doesn't take away the sting. But I think now it's been able to write it's a no for right now, but not forever. And it's how do I like some of the best piece of advice I've ever received is, no matter what you show up, you show up on the good Daisy show, especially on the bad days. So just take that moment away, give thanks for what you do. And that thanks can be something as small as I'm thankful for waking up. thankful for having my family. I'm thankful for being in Los Angeles. Just give thanks for even the small things and give that gratitude. And then from there, we assess where you are and get back up. But you have to take that moment. Everyone's moments are different for me, I've been able to minimize what my moments look like. So I'm able to get up much faster, that it's rationalizing how things happen in life. It's giving benefit of the doubt. It's to think, alright, this didn't work out for me right now. What else am I going to do to continue going? And so for me, it's when you fail, which we all do, and I have had multiple failures in my life as they are happening. They have stung beyond belief, because I've always felt, I'm a hard worker, I feel like reasonably talented. I've already come from a very difficult upbringing to begin with. My father passed away my family working super hard. And I think it's also the expectation that in between I was felt like things would get easier as I got older. Life is tough. It doesn't get easier. It doesn't. It's just the you know, it's having realistic expectations. So, for me, it's just you get back up, you think of what you're going to do next and do it execution is key, and giving gratitude and then And for me, like every day, I have this ritual and I have to thank my team at WPP last year, my team had given me a book for my birthday and I didn't actually realize what the book was I was just writing notes in the backside she opened up and it was a gratitude journal. So every morning I've got a whole spiritual like I pray namaz, which is prayer for Muslims. And I go through it I do what's called dicker, which are these like Islamic incantations to sort of center myself but then I have this even in my briefcase right now you'll see, I've got a, I write three things that I'm happy about. Then I put out the intention or three things sometimes. Then I put out the intention for how my day is going to go. So I list out three specific things of how long it takes me. And then there's a motto that I put out there, of what is the theme of today going to be and then at the ending of the day I go through before I go sleep and I write it down. Three things that went really well so I can give thanks for that. And then two things that could be better right as almost a goal set. So it's taking this Gratitude into my daily life and having intention of what my day is going to be about. Because what I've realized is, if I life if you if I leave on autopilot, it will become someone else's narrative, you become reactive, you become reactive. Yeah. And like for me, I've got, I've got to own my narrative. I just recently saw a commercial with Serena Williams, where it was for Bumble actually where she was it. If I had to ask permission, I wouldn't be here. No direct quote that the summation of what she said, and so for me, I'm not I'm not asking anyone's permission, I'm just going to go do what I have to do, because I'm the person that I have to live with for the rest of my life. So it's just getting up and having that strength. It's like a gratitude is a muscle that you have to continually practice and strengthen. And I think for me, that is what has got me through the stinking failures, when I feel like there was injustice that has happened to me or people around me. It's just all right. This is just for this moment. Let me isolate it and continue go

CK LIN 14:00
For those of you that are listening, Anas here or here to share something so profound, you know, after years in years of searching and experiencing and journeys, ultimately what I realize, by the way, there's a five minute journal. Essentially, yeah, the the format. Yeah, so so that's that's it? That's exactly yeah. So we're spiritual beings with a particular intention. So if we, if we can maintain that, that's, that's three simple things flashing on, you mentioned a number of things. What's your intention? What are you grateful for? That's the baseline of how you can make your day as powerful as you can be. You don't need 10,000 different rituals and other things. If you can actually maintain this intention because what makes us as human beings so special and then other animals is our ability to create intention, right? We have the option to choose how we want our day be right, right how we want to spend this precious time energy resource that we have towards the life that truly makes us come alive. One thing I do want to underline a little bit is that in my own journey, I came from a scientific background. So I tend to relate to things in a very rational way. And one thing that I would do is to pooh pooh, the ideas of emotions. I would say, all right, I have a shitty day. But my intention is x and I'm grateful for x. Let me move forward. The underlying theme there was to suppress my emotions, to make my emotions wrong. I'm not my thoughts and my emotions. One of the biggest breakthrough that I recently I want to share this with you as well as the rest listeners is that our emotions is a part of our own relative truth. Because that's what naturally arise from us. If we can actually fully feel the emotion of injustice, anger, resentment fully and integrate that neutralize that such that we can becoming equanimous

ANAS GHAZI 16:25
that's quite the term equanimous. Right?

CK LIN 16:28
Well, I learned that term from a meditation retreat of vippassana the whole idea of it. So we're digressing a little bit right digressing, upon digressing. In Vipassana we learn the mechanics, how Buddha, Gotama achieve enlightenment, just the mechanics, not the religiosity of it, but just the mechanics of it. He said, the root cause of suffering is grasping for a positive emotion I want, right? attach attachment and also the aversion of the emotions that we don't want. Right? So intellectually understood that but recently I really come to appreciate this, this, this, this, this process of actually integrating the both the negative emotions as well as the positive emotions because what I would tend to do as a human being is to suppress the negative emotions. feeling angry is bad, feeling guilty is bad, feeling resentful. Resentment is bad and therefore, I'm going to pretend that they don't exist and just focus on the positive, the gratitude, the joy, the happiness, love. And I found that to be counterproductive, right? If we can truly actually integrate the two that say I feel anger towards a particular someone a particular issue. And if I can actually integrate the opposite side of that and together and I can come back to equanimity Then I now I'm neutralized tour and then I can actually operationalize all my faculties towards the intention that I want versus carrying these negative charges with me pretending that it is not there and then at some point is going to blow up record someone and say something that triggers my my intrinsic my visceral memories of that right so, so But such a beautiful sharing that you did Thank you so much. So in that case how do you exercise the muscles because you said gratitude is a muscle resilience is a muscle you just share with us how you exercise the gratitude muscle how do you actually share how do you actually exercise that resilience muscle?

ANAS GHAZI 18:45
So you know, a lot of it is reflection. So just going back to this situation I recently encountered the from the resilience piece. It's also saying what have I learned because we learn every day different circumstances. So you're always better off from the learning. And for me, I look back say what is what is the good that has come out of this circumstance? And what can be better. And it's just not personalizing it. Because I think there's a lot that happens.

CK LIN 19:15
What do you mean by that not personalizing

ANAS GHAZI 19:16
not personalizing in terms of saying, I am valued by this moment in time, my value is this failure or my values, this obstacle, or so forth. And it's looking at that my journey is supposed to be something other than what this is. So there's also this this Islamic belief of, you know, like, what should be good, what is good to should come to you and what is not good to you will come away.

What is good for you will come to what is not good for you will go away. And so for me, it's this thing of As humans, we only know so much and as spiritual beings. I think there's more to that in terms of I may not, I may not have a full understanding that had this thing worked out for me. It probably it may not have been the best For me, and I think ultimately having this trust in a higher power, that the higher power will take care of me and make sure I'm okay. And I think this is for me what being a Muslim and having that solid faith really comes in. And I think that has been a big strength of a big source of strength to help me and navigate you through life. So I think that's where that peace is. I mean, for Muslims, you have to pray five times a day. So it's definitely a practice piece. I think it's almost like meditating five times a day, five minutes each day, 25 minutes of meditation throughout the day, which for me, that helps me with the resilience and of course, speaks to my family. And I think the family component is really big, especially as I've gone through my professional career, from Trans Union to American Express WPP to Kantar. It's my family, other folks who I can trust my mom and my siblings and so forth. So that has helped me so I think what has worked for me is having a core group of people who I know will be happy for me when I'm happy and will be sad for me when I'm saying But also encouraged me to get back to that place of her. And I think that's been very important to keep the fight up and to keep the journey moving forward.

ANNOUNCER 21:11
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CK LIN 21:39
Thank you, Confucius said self mastery, family, country, organization and world right. So sounds like you have a solid practice around self mastery, a solid practice around your family and these are the foundations that allows you to really made the kind of impact you want to make decisions in the world. Is that an accurate statement?

ANAS GHAZI 22:04
I would say? Yeah, for me, it's always been the family piece from being on the playground. I remember as kids, when we one of us would get into a fight in the playground and Parkway in primary school, all of us were jumping on it was, Oh, it was the it was just you mess with one of us. You've got all of us at that. And it would be a total freight for the lunch ladies, because that'd be like these five kids covered on this one kid. We didn't care if we if if one of us was friends with the person, if that person picks a fight with one of us. It is the five of us that you have to deal with. from nine to three, we're all in it together. So I think I've been very blessed that I've got that family support. I think the self mastery That to me is an evolution. I think I understand myself better now. But I think we're always understanding ourselves because we always evolve as people.

CK LIN 22:51
So actually, I want to interject real quick, about self mastery piece, because one of the things we hear a lot from let's say Joseph Campbell following your bliss or know thyself or tell your own true be be authentic we hear cliches I this all the time. But I will say, it's easy to say it is tell your truth. Like, tell us a little bit the process of how you have discover, reveal your own truth to yourself before, then you can you know, live and share with others what your truth is.

ANAS GHAZI 23:24
Oh goodness, that is a deep question. For me it is, you know comes down to purpose. And I think from a since I was a young child I've seen my mom worked really hard and struggle and I've seen my siblings do the same and I've seen my sisters give up stuff so that I could have it as the only boy. They would always say like and so I've come up seeing that. So my purpose has always been a to make sure my mom and my sisters and my loved ones my nephews are protected or preserved and I could do everything in my power to make sure they're okay. So that is just my mission in life and everything else. When I think about things that happen outside of that everything else then it puts into perspective professional pursuits, material pursuits, whatever it might be if they work out great. Does it help this goal of what my purpose is? To make sure my family's okay? Or if it doesn't, okay, if it doesn't work out, I'm right with that because then I feel like now I've realized it doesn't impact my purpose. So I think it but it's come to me over years I'll tend to last 12 months in particular, have become more self aware, have become more grounded. Just recently, I've had a lot of my friends reach out to me the reading some of the stuff I've done and all the rest of it, though you're doing really well. I was like, thank you. But there's always more to go. And, you know, there's also a game of optics, right? And no one really shares their inner struggle. What you only see like I said, is the tip of the iceberg that the glossy version, the glossy the Instagram, the LinkedIn version, and so forth. Every One has a story to be told, and everyone's going through something. And I think a lot of it now is for me putting myself in other in someone else's shoes. Because if I know I've got stuff going on, I'm fairly certain everyone else I'm dealing with has something going on as well. And they have their motivations and if there are things to overcome, I will work on overcoming them through a different venue, but you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.

CK LIN 25:23
Would you say that that internal awareness makes you as well as someone else a Better leader?

ANAS GHAZI 25:33
It does. I think internal awareness is key to leadership in particular, especially when it comes to like cultural dynamics. And so while I was a CEO of WPP Data Alliance, I had a an entire global team folks from Japan, India, Indonesia, South Africa, UK, you name it, all sorts of different people with different family structures, different narratives. And so I think understanding myself And having the benefits now of being from a global culture. Okay, a global family, just knowing that and how that works and understanding different people's motivations, that was super helpful in growing WPP data Alliance into the company that it became. Because I was able to relate to people I was able to connect with people all the way from, you know, being from China and being the only child and the pressure that you receive in that to what your parents expect of you and understanding that to you know, having a colleagues father passed away to knowing that you shouldn't be scheduling a meeting tomorrow in Indonesia because no one's going to show up. So a lot of it is understanding yourself and then translating that into business growth.

CK LIN 26:48
I'll share my personal journey there as a the trained rationalist. I didn't understand the internal process. That's because I myself, I didn't understand my own Emotions right as they occur because I just suppress them avoid and I'll pretend that they're not there. I just basically emotions equals bad. Right? And as a result of that, I just look at problems as problems, especially around organization when I didn't have the empathy or the compassion, right, or how people react to certain things, because to me wasn't rational. Right. And, and, and also, I was wondering, like, why was my leadership so limiting? Right? Why did people not want it to come to talk to me? Yeah. Why Why don't people want to work with me even though you know, rationally? Yeah. very skilled at solving problems in a very rational way.

Not until I met the Dalai Lama. He really gave me a glimpse of what compassion feels like. like Wow. This is what having compassion means. That got me curious in and about the if I want to be a better leader, if I want to impact people more deeply, not just the rational side, but also deeply like the whole human side, then I must develop my own compassion towards others human beings. And that's really started the journey for me to internal self exploration, to doing plant medicine work to really truly realize like, oh, wow, there's such power in, in in the internal space, and really come to peace with that.

ANAS GHAZI 28:31
I think it's important to also have that model right. I think for me, that's how I learned it. The best way was modeled for me as I was going through different pieces. And I mean, I started off my professional career in financial services. And then after eight years in financial services, I transitioned over into the world of advertising. And I was very fortunate, especially in the world of advertising with my first boss. Literally soon as I saw it within six months of being a WPP. My oldest got really sick. And my, my first boss was like taking all the time off that you need, don't even question it come and go as you want. So I was very fortunate to see it modeled. And then from there, it was almost like, by seeing him all the time, it was almost like saying it's allowed, because up until that point in time, you know, like, I also come from like a very, like an Asian culture is very tech driven, very logical driven. And almost everyone I know that the thing to be was a doctor, an engineer, like the four letter word, no one in my family ever says is Love. So I come from that type of background as well. And even though we're empathetic in the workplace, I was always just taught in university, they don't give you a course on EQ, they just give you you know, you know, management, finance, all the rest of it. So it wasn't until I saw it being modeled and being a recipient of it. And what it did for me in terms of it made me more loyal. Like I literally was doing partnerships out of hospital waiting rooms, not because I felt the pressure to do it because because I wanted to and I felt the loyalty to my boss and to the firm as results of that. So I realized, the more empathetic you are, and really understand what people are going through people will, they will return that to you in dividends. Because loyalty is such a key thing. When you get to people I have to believe and I've seen it, that people will return it to you by being good to you by working harder by wanting to do what's best for the firm and so forth.

CK LIN 30:23
I also want to emphasize that the way we're talking about it, it's not so much where a gamification trying to like manipulate someone to do something, to me, actually, yes, the outcome is greater. And that's the juice. We are in a human human oriented organization in the interconnectivity, the, how you share how you provide space for people that you serve with. That's the juice. Because otherwise I would easily just be, you know, programming something, some tools and that's that it's not interesting to me.

ANAS GHAZI 31:01
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it shouldn't be. So the minute you have the intention that it's going to give you an outcome of a person be more loyal. It needs to be more authentic than that. It's that basic principle of treat others the way you want to be treated. And that's it, you know, just try to be a good person be a good human being. And even so for my, my career at the firm has been around developing collaborations and partnerships. And I've prided myself on being a fair business partner, just from a human perspective. And you can even all the lawyers on our team where I'm like, Hey, we're awesome, this is a partner, we need to give it back to them as well. It has to be fair. And there are times you know, I'll be honest, I've been burned where that fairness isn't reciprocated from a partner. You know, they can't win all of them and I'm okay with that. But I need to know that I can go to sleep at night knowing that I've been a fair practitioner, right, because I'd much rather be known as a fair practitioner of partnerships and collaborations, then being Known as someone who is unfair.

CK LIN 32:04
And ultimately, I love the way you articulate it because you did it for you. Yeah. Right. So you can go to sleep at night, there is a cost, right? of trying to maximize profit or trying to, you know, get the most out of someone. Guess what? To me. Life is a long game. And you have a reputation. If your reputation is Yeah, working with CK as an example. You know, I feel shitty. Yeah, yeah, shit, no one wants to work with me anymore. Maybe this time you get some, you know, some short term gains, but long term why's no one wants to be around you. So, thank you so much for sharing so generously.

So, talk a little bit about how do you actually bring that because you're speaking from an individual person's point of view you you have given you have received, how do you actually instill that in organization. Because I would say that's pretty tricky.

ANAS GHAZI 33:04
So it's interesting as I came to counsel are transitioning out w PP. Within a few weeks, we had a product launch which I had to leave and this product the team had been working on it for months, it was such a large opportunity. And it was so big that no one knew how to tackle it. And so came in and literally had six weeks to launch this product and the product name is balanced attribution. And we had to launch at Cannes and there was so many stakeholders involved it partner we had a 40 people internally and a lot of it was just listening to what everyone had to say. And in listening to what they had to say and and also understanding what is their communication style so like why this one member of the team, super smart guy and but at his emails, they were on a different level because they were voluminous corporate Academic and there was so long I was just like, no one's gonna be able to read all these emails. So I realized very quickly that the way you scale something like that, as you call them. So then I realized the communication modality was you, this is the person who needs to squeeze spoke to on the phone to get the message and distill it. Here's a person who needs it, who's cool speaking in public environments, it's understanding your team, and just it's that emotional, that EQ ultimately, of knowing how and when people want to be spoken to.

So I think it's just understanding and feeling out where your team is, and understanding how they want to engage and what's the most effective way to draw an outcome for business. But a lot of it initially is just listening so that you can figure it out. I think, a lot of folks they jump headfirst and they do this, you do that. We are that economy of dictatorship is over. We are in a collaboration economy. And the only way collaboration can happen is if people felt like they are heard. That you are taking them seriously and you are really making them feel valued and that their contribution plays a role in the final outcome you're trying to bring forward.

CK LIN 35:12
How do you teach that to your, you know, managers or someone who's not you? Who has daily prayer faith, strong family background in because let me actually share share this with you, at companies that I that I previously were at: We tended to want to find people who are like us, similar core values and similar practices, the depth of wisdom, deeper awareness, EQ, all of that, right. So if you look for someone who is exactly like you, you are not gotta find it, because there's only one Anas and there's one CK. So then what how do you scale that level of depth and awareness?

ANAS GHAZI 35:56
said this is where there's a bloody truth right? So this is where being a minority has been helpful because there's, when I started my career, a growing up, I never really saw anyone who looked like me in the professional force. And I never had a manager who was all my background either anything to that nature. So I'm used to dealing with people who aren't like me, right? So that almost has now become a it's an asset, because what I look for is a skill set. And I also look for chemistry. Do we as people get along and I'm alright with people from varied backgrounds and differences, because like I said, I've, I've always been different. And to now we're lucky, we are in a place in time where being different is considered good. But it's just bringing people who are right for the job, but people that you have chemistry with, who you understand they understand you. And I think that's really important to like and trust the people that you work with regards to what backgrounds you've come from, like I said, like I've led global teams where even though there are commonalities, there's also differences and I think we as people were like Venn diagrams, this pieces of a star alike; and pieces of stars different. It's just how you bring that right permutation together to get the best business outcome because I don't want people are all the same. And I think that's why, especially in advertising, that's when we run into big issues with campaigns and so forth, where we have all the same people running a campaign for a client, and we lose a cultural nuance. You need different people to be able to give you different perspectives. So it's just modeling the behavior of the basics, you know, just listen to people speak with respect, try and drive. We're not trying but drive timely outcomes, continually quantify the financial impact to the business. I think modeling those behaviors is just key. And I think anyone can pick that up regardless of who you are,

CK LIN 37:47
I have a loving challenge for you. So what you just described the ability to drive outcome, data driven, these are to me, outer game skills is the outer Games skills, right, but also a huge part of what we've been discussing so far as the inner game skills, right? Let's use EQ is a big one, right? That internal awareness of your emotions, your ability to articulate how you feel about certain things also feel others, right. So how to concretize that for us with outer game is, quote unquote easier right? to quantify you look at your resumes you do some testing. Sure The internal ones much more challenging. So how do you? if you could share a little bit of your framework, interview questions, want to give people something that they can actually filter?

ANAS GHAZI 38:47
So I think the first part of it for me has been putting aside the ego. It's, you have to be ready to do no task can be too big or too small, from scheduling meetings on a napkin to get everyone's available. ability to talking to the President of the United States, you have to be willing to do all of it. And for me, that's been my thing. I've just not been afraid. And I've been very fortunate. I've been empowered to do those things. But this is, and so you take titles and all that side, all those pieces aside, you just do whatever it takes, it comes to you do what it takes to make it happen. Yes. that's one of the things that's not having the ego on here? So I'm not going to schedule that meeting, right. You know, you just do what it takes to get it done faster. So it's that piece of it. And then the other piece for me, my inner game has always been I, I'm a tactician. I like to get things done. That's my checklist every day. But that is what has really from an industry perspective, I like to shut the end of the day. I've done stuff I have made use of my day. It has been productive towards meeting this goal. So that's the inner piece of I want to show that I can materially touch feel, absorb what it is that I'm working on from it being a partnership with Facebook or Spotify to, you know, helping gain Kantar positioning in the world of inclusion and diversity and, you know, partnering with Adweek, I like to see things in real. Like, because that's just my inner game of, Okay, I need to be able to point to it. So I think those were the pieces that intently I have been drivers and then the rest of it has been the wrapper around it. Because for me, like I was just talking to our GC in London a few weeks back, let's GC General Counsel here in London, and was trying to push to get this partnership together. And she's like Anas, she's like, you've got the sense of urgency, what's the sense of urgency, I said, Look, I gave my word. And that's the other piece. I was I gave my word I'd get it done by this day. We have to get it done by this day. That's it. It's like always like my word means a lot to me. And for me when someone breaks the word that's really hard on me in particular because I view the world the way I view myself. So It's, it's having those things of just that integrity that I want to get stuff done. If I'm having any issues capturing my paycheck, I shouldn't have any issues getting the job done either. And, and it's just that and then the rest of it is, you know, really being able to motivate teams, to hear them out to speak to them in the way that they want to be spoken, and ultimately drive that business outcome.

CK LIN 41:20
Right. So how do you find others who have those core skills, the inner skills that you just talked about?

ANAS GHAZI 41:27
You know, I don't think it's about finding people have it, it's drawing it out of people. You know, because everyone's like, same way, everyone's a good person. Everyone's a bad person. You know, everyone's got different. We're so multifaceted as as humans, it's drawing out those skills because, for example, in terms of getting balanced attribution put together, we worked with this enormous team to get it all the way from our communications and PR team to launching at Canada all the rest of it, but it was showing that everyone from our project manager on to the product development teams to client facing teams, everyone was providing value. Because without them because literally when the product launched the email chains internally, it was like we had won the Oscars. And it was great because it was bringing everyone together after months of this, you know, product, we're trying to move it forward, that it was drawing out the best of everyone for that product for that launch, and how we did it. So I think as building this community around each initiative, I'm a huge believer of agile teams, I think that's where I flourish. The best at Kantar I have the pleasure of working with a whole bunch of agile teams, it's you bringing the right people to do the right things, and then you move forward. So it's just showing everyone's value and making them feel special. And I think giving people gratitude goes such a long way. I mean, thanking them letting the the managers and you know, the executive team know that these other people have contributed, because a super long way.

CK LIN 42:57
So let's get tactical even more there. There's many currencies out there, right? There's obviously, so I'm Chinese. When you go to a Chinese company, a way to show gratitude is raising your pay, right? But we also have seen that through research, that monetary incentive, they only get you so far. Ultimately, to me, it's the extrinsic motivation, like money, like recognition, as well as the intrinsic motivation, like being acknowledged, like, Hey, what's your purpose? How can you leverage this company to leapfrog your purpose even more? So I forgot what I was going with this. Give me a moment. Oh, how do you operationalize the the acknowledgement? Is there a systematic way of doing it is more of a intuitive thing

ANAS GHAZI 43:57
it is from when you speak about that. Launched you thank the people who made it happen on linked in to an like recognition. Yeah, public recognition to internally like, you know, this isn't like sending out formal email that, you know, bringing out the team members. And this was their contribution and sharing with the executive team to anyone you speak to it, hey, we did this cool thing. And so and so was amazing. So I mean, just recently, we launched this thought leadership, that ultimately can we roll that into the industry and those gentlemen on the team, I had taken title aside, I had no idea he was an associate at the firm, because he is so good, so good. And I'm like this dude. I was just like, he's brilliant. And there's this. There's another colleague of mine, and she was phenomenal as well. They just took the bull by the horns. And every time I just check it out, what can we do to help you and just thanking them, we've got to invite to the conference and all the rest of it where the work is going to be released. It was just there was so good, but just appreciating them. And I think it's both right. It's appreciating them from like a holistic perspective, that if someone's doing a good job, we owe it to them to also compensate them because we're not working to, you know, find the meaning of life. We're working to pay our bills, right? So if someone has gone above and beyond, even if it's like a step increase, or whatever it might might be, do it, because it would that it's going to help you keep a person happier, rather than them leaving and you haven't replaced. Right? It's, you know that that's a much larger cost, right? versus just, in the moment, recognize people for what they're doing, both through formal recognition, but also, if you like, definitely to compensation as well. It has to be both. It has to be both. Yeah.

CK LIN 45:46
Yeah, it's challenging. I would say it's challenging because our intention is to acknowledge everyone in the same time we also have finite resources. Now within that finite resource, then how do you actually do it allocated in a way that's most meaningful

ANAS GHAZI 46:00
Right. I mean, you can't obviously, you can't compensate everyone for every great deed that they do. It has to be significant and a milestone, especially when someone has gone above and beyond that, in terms of recognition and gratitude, I think, you know, words are free, you know, like, words are free, and yet they're priceless. It's, you know, those go a long way. And I think it's also giving them more opportunities. And once again, it's been modeled for me where, as long as you can handle it, keep going. You know, as long as you show me results, keep going, like you don't need me to stop you. Like just just keep doing that. What I've realized is sometimes people feel insecure when someone else is doing well, instead of celebrating that others feel insecure, right, that it's somehow detracts from their ability or that this person may lead from them and all the rest of that, right. But you know, everyone's path is different. Yeah. If you step inside or that question, well, successes, infinite. Yes, you know, and it means different things to different people. So them moving up doesn't preclude you moving up. It's not like we've got this finite pie with the slivers just change. It's an infinite pie, right? So let you know more power to the person who's doing well. You focus on your thing and do well as well. Yeah.

CK LIN 47:15
So what I also hear is you customize to what the person needs. Let's say this person is particularly incentivized by monetary incentive, then you will customize it a little bit different

ANAS GHAZI 47:27
Actually, I wouldn't say I customized I think to me, it feels quite I hate to use the term universal, I hate to use the term universal seems to blanket better. Most people like to feel appreciated. Right? So to me, that's just a given. And I think if someone has gone above and beyond, then compensate them for going above and beyond because that is the right thing to do.

CK LIN 47:54
actually reminds me of this book called The five languages of love. So and then why why focus on like, hey, people may prefer different modalities of acknowledgment some people may be monetary some people will be symbolic gifts, give some some, some they may be more times, it may be more words of encouragement. Thank you. How did you end up in advertising? Because if if I didn't if I didn't know you, I didn't, I didn't know what you did what you do, I would say, Oh, this guy's probably a coach or a teacher, you know, a master teacher of sort because you talked about spirituality very freely. You talked about your relationship with your family, you talk about self mastery. I would have never guessed that. So tell us how you choose your profession.

ANAS GHAZI 48:45
So I've had a very colorful profession and that I mean, when I was like, in my early teens, I was scouted and became became a print model. And then I began became an actor and a voiceover dude. And I did that Yeah, like so I've had a very creative life so far. And then from that during grad school, the first time around, I taught English to high risk freshmen, which was one of the most taught English to high risk freshmen. So it was students who came to Northern Illinois University where I did my undergrad on what's called the champs program. So they were given a chance to give to university even though the AC T or essay t scores went high enough. So then they had these development courses where I was a tutor. And then I began teaching for the LTRE program, literacy and education. And it was a super amazing experience were like, I'd have to teach Shakespeare and poetic devices, which almost felt so like it just didn't jive with the student populace. So I changed it to analyze a song. And it was just bringing making things more relevant to them. So I taught and then after that, after grad school and I graduate degree in Information Systems, while I was also acting and doing all the rest of it, and then I took a year off and I was acting full time. went out to LA for pilot season all the rest of it. And then my I needed insurance and then health insurance. What are they great pieces of America. And so then I was I need a job. So I ended up at Trans Union, which is the credit bureau. And one of the first questions I asked the recruiter I was like, Is there any program which is Oh, not at all, it's more of like a business analyst role. At first day the job. It's straight up mainframe coding, it's, it's cobal, it's JCL job controller language, SAS six, or, like mining data records and creating models for like, you know, out of the US credit database of like 330 million people. And also I like even though I had coded that wasn't natural to who I was, yeah. So here I was coding up models, working late nights, working weekends, to get my game back on on how to code I taught myself coding, right? So was it Trans Union for six years and I initially started off as a coder and marketing services where we'd quote code, financial models for banks and credit card companies such as Bank of America, American Express, Chase, and so forth. And then I move more into a client facing role where I was leading a team of technologists and data engineers to create custom solutions and omni channel campaigns for a variety of all of our clients. I mean, this custom solutions range from creating pieces for capital markets, and you know, looking at loan appraisals and what types of portfolios investment companies should be buying based on the actual loan value to how do you reach different consumers digitally for a specific credit card offers and so forth. So as that Trans Union for about six years, and then I got picked up to go to American Express, where I was part of the data analytics and capabilities team. And for a hot minute, I was doing the same type of work. I was doing my return on investment on credit card portfolios. You know, what types of decisions should American Express make. And then, within a few weeks of that, I was asked to lead digital transformation for the risk Information Management Division of who should American Express partner with and why. so that they could ultimately increase that card member portfolio to get more of a younger demographic and a more diverse demographic as well. So did that American Express, you know, working on a variety of different partnerships, and then I'd been in financial services at that point in time about eight years. And then Fs The way it works is between that six to eight year mark, either you stay in it, or you leave and if once that window elapses, then you're just feels like your life. And I was just like, you know, this is good. I mean, American Express, it was like, it is the golden standard in the financial services world. And that's what got me to New York as well. And I remember being like loving the firm, but feeling like I could do more and I watch an episode of Mad Men go figure and it was specifically the episode with Jon Hamm. Or he was he pitched the idea of Kodak carousel. And I watched him do the pitch and the story told and as I could do that, I could completely do that. And as Kahlil Gibran would say, what you seek is seeking you. Maybe that's actually no, that's Rumi my bad. I think Rumi said that. Put it out that I want to get to advertising and put it out there into the universe. Yeah, my, my intention out into the universe. I was like, I want to get into advertising. And I spoke to of course, my sisters and my one sister connected me with a friend of hers who was a headhunter who connected me with someone else and then spoke with this gentleman in December 2012. They'll say I want to get into advertising is I don't have anything yet. But I'll let you know. That was a half hour conversation in December. And then he calls me back six months ago.Later his film called WPP. Then looking for a director of partnerships for this newly established firm that they call data alliance, would you be interested and then I was like, Sure, I came into the interview, and I met with my boss. And for the first time in my life, I picked my boss rather than the role which has paid dividends. And now going forward, that's my role. I need to pick my boss and the chemistry that I have with the boss. And I was, it's a luxury to be able to do that. And I understand that, but I was fortunate to have that opportunity. So pick my boss, and then that's how I got to advertising. Two weeks later, I was at WPP.

CK LIN 54:38
So in the spiritual community, there's this concept called transmission, right? Or resonance. And the whole idea of that is, it's not so much the content that your teacher is teaching you per say, rather is how good you feel when You're in the direct presence of your teacher. It sounds like it that's how you felt when you were around your boss.

ANAS GHAZI 55:02
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think you know, from that, I mean, and having that autonomy and that and having someone believe in you, I mean, I started off as a director, just in our New York office and then was given the opportunity to go to Canada top two tops with Martin Sorrell, as we met, you know, all these people across the industry who would like industry leaders to growing the firm into, you know, several different continents and move my way up along the way as well. Once again, I got I was lucky to have the appreciation. And then also the compensation as it all started to happen. So when, you know, work with partners, such as Facebook and Spotify, like platforms I was personally passionate about, and I also had this added benefit of moving up along the way and so went from director, global director managing director to CEO but it felt like fun the entire time. And then from there, I came to this realization that you know, I was like, This is cool. I did. It is great. This is what my career has always been about, but I'm more than Then just data and I wanted to really like I love working with clients. I love telling the story. I've got a creative penchant. And that's when I was able to come in to, to Kantar to lead growth from both a partnerships perspective, or as we call them alliances to how do we position ourselves in the market? Who do we connect with? What are meaningful initiatives Kantar should be a part of. And I'm going to do that now. And it's great working with our client teams, establishing what our overall strategy looks like, from a client strategy perspective, what are the business challenges? What are the offers we have? What are the partnerships that should power those offers? So it's been the full end to end and it's just like, it's always been fun for me. My rule is if it's not fun, I can't do it. Like, if I don't feel compelled by I just I'm not one of those who could just go in and do the job. Yeah, like, I can't I have to feel it. I'm all about the feeling. And if I can't feel it, then it's not for me. And I've been fortunate that I feel in every day it's a new opportunities and new challenges. Think of What hasn't been talked about today? And how do we take the business in that direction. And we've got like a, you know, a couple hundred million dollar business that we're looking at from a partnership perspective that is supporting overall a $4 billion business, which is Kantar.

CK LIN 57:16
So if I'm, let me recap a little bit of your trajectory. So you've, you follow different opportunities, you get into things that you think it's going to be fun and exciting. And then you found mentors, bosses who you have resonance with. Is there anything else that that's missing in terms of looking at your trajectory?

ANAS GHAZI 57:40
So I would say the way like, you can also create resonance and that's actually one of the big pieces I love. you know, so like, I got to WPP at which advertising company 200,000 employees, hundred 12 countries, you know, massive and I it's a relationships business. I didn't know anyone. And so I didn't Have resonance with anyone outside of my boss and my boss at the time, he did expend a lot of his political equity, introducing me to people. But the way I was able to create resonance with those folks was I was timely in my responses, I came back to them with value add, and I thought it was all very thoughtful. I'd moved on things quickly, and I was able to show results. So that is what helps create resonance with them as well. Ultimately, these folks became board members at WPP Data Alliance. And that's where, and from being board members, they've now become my friend. So still people I connect with, some of them have gone on to different firms and so forth. But I created that resonance by being quick, being meaningful and providing value to them. To the point that I remember calling one of my board members that time, he was on a plane in Mumbai, taking my phone call, holding up a plane and ultimately because he's willing to have that conversation, but you create resonance by providing value. Yeah, you know, the playbook of this, it's provide value. So there and I think we've all come across this where there are times during the meeting, and someone is speaking just to speak, there isn't anything new to add? And you're like, great, you know, like, like speak when there's something that you're going to add that's valuable speak when you can, you know, contribute. And you. And that's all it is. It's just how can I provide value? How can I help? You know, even like today, for example, my first course with our partnerships team of, you know, we've got all these partnerships coming in, how are they going to feed into our different products and services that we have. And it was just literally creating a spreadsheet and just making it very specific, this data partnership is going to help this product and this product. It's very tactical, then also, this is what we're going to share as a unified view. And it was a half hour court really productive and I think that's where you have to be, it's about providing value 24 seven,

CK LIN 59:48
so actually, let's, let's concretize a little bit, because a lot of people say that I want to provide value everywhere. I go and they don't really provide value. the intention is there, which I appreciate. And at the same time, then no idea what is adding value to me. So how do you actually concretely add value to your partners to everyone that you interact to people on the streets? How do you actually do that concrete as that for us, right?

ANAS GHAZI 1:00:23
So it's ultimately quantifying, I'm going to grow the business by x millions of dollars. I want to have this number of partnerships. I want to amplify the brand by these metrics I want. Like it's have concrete goals that meet that align with the business goals. And now how am I going to contribute to Okay, so if it's if it's, you know, business growth, alright, so what's your plan of how you're going to attain business growth, and give me a timeline of how you think you're going to track against that? I see very tactical and how you going to do it. Okay.

CK LIN 1:00:55
So, so, back up one second. So I would say In terms of business value, revenue, profit, right? It's pretty obvious, right? But in terms of the individual in terms of people outside of business, right, let's say you don't work with them anymore, they're no longer part of the ecosystem regarding or whatever business. How do you add value there? What's your mental model around adding value beyond hey i have a deal for you? x dollar of revenue, or it can save you some money like this? beyond the obvious, how do you actually add value?

ANAS GHAZI 1:01:36
So a lot of the calls or emails I get is, I would say, one of my largest roles and my personality type is I'm a connector. Yeah, so a lot of calls that I get from people who are no longer in the direct line of businesses Oh, can you connect me with so and so? Right? So for me, that's the value I can provide. I can connect you with so and so and this is what is the ask so I'm very specific. I don't like wasting people's time. Just doing random, random intros. So it's asking what people when people reach out to you, it's what is it that they need and figuring out? Can I help them? What can I help? Can I not help them? So I was just talking to my mentee, for example, and I was asking, I was like, you know, where do you see? Cuz she was like, she was having a tough time figuring out what she wants to do after grad school. And also, all right, so where do you see yourself in five years? She gave her example. I said, Well, that's actually a starting point. Because you know, where you see yourself in five years, a lot of it at that point in time for which she didn't feel like she was good enough to be. She wasn't good enough today, which should be in five years, when truthfully she was. So I mean, I think the value is different for different people from a mentee perspective, it was helping give that guidance. From a colleague perspective, it's connecting for new business opportunities. It's just understanding what people want and if you can or cannot help them by providing that value.

CK LIN 1:02:53
Okay, good. Let's talk about peer group. I talked about how important it is for you to have family structure. That's your that's your, the bedrock of who you are. Right? So what about your peer groups? Who gets not maybe specific who, but what kind of people gets to be in the inner circle? Oh god, what kind of people the unfortunate folks would be definitely, of course my family like the number one, but I my I'm very very, very close to my friends from undergrad. Love them to bits like,. you know, we grew up together as kids I went to school out in North Northern Illinois University in Chicago, Illinois, which is about 90 miles west of the city where the home of corn, barbed wire and Cindy Crawford that's why she was born raised Okay, and then the next city over is the Quad Cities in Iowa. So we're the middle of the Golden grains where you have corn and all the rest of it. And so like my friends from undergrad there's like a group of us that we we've been friends God decades now decades and We grew up from being kids we've been together through life, death, marriage, broken hearts, job loss, you name it, we have really come together. And literally just last weekend, we had our annual we had our quarterly meetup, we do a friends giving every year together. So these are people who, I mean, they're still in Chicago. And a lot of times my life feels so foreign to a lot of folks. But why love and I get to meet up with my my crew from NIU is that I get to just be myself. And it's the safe space where we just speak about everything. And we are still 18 and 19. And just the energy and the love and the support and above all the confidentiality of it. Like I know I can trust these folks. So it's a that's definitely a group of folks who are just right here for me, of course, my best friends in the UK and I've got very close friends in the UK as well, who I grew up with. I what I've realized is that people I tend to be closest with are the people who knew me before. I ultimately came to New York. Like because I think it's because they they knew my true essence and I think in New York I've made some good friends as well but it's fewer and far between I think as you get older that that generally happens. But I would say it's Yeah, my crew from undergrad mine.

What is it? Your true essence?

ANAS GHAZI 1:05:19
You know, my object my true essence I think I'm still a dreamer at heart like I still want like I want to write a book and so every time I meet with my crew knows I how's the book going? It's you know, being around my family. I Like just I like being very laid back and chilling out and I love riding horses. I am. I've been riding for years I had my own horse, but most people wouldn't amazing. And most people wouldn't even. It's funny. I had a yellow Wrangler at one point, which was a stick shift. And most people like you do not seem like a guy who knows how to drive stick shift as I'm all about stick. So yeah, rode horses. I wrote Western I taught people trail riding did all that but Yeah, so I think my essence is ultimately to experience all of it. But I'm very guarded around the people who I keep closest to me. And, and I, and I think that's it.

CK LIN 1:06:11
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate it. I also have a loving challenge for you What if you share more of that, of my essence, so that you can fully be yourself.

ANAS GHAZI 1:06:27
So you know, it's interesting, right? So I came into advertising because I'm a firm believer that you, you need to do, what you and who you are as a person. So when I was in financial services, I did feel a big dichotomy. I was I'm this creative dude, naturally, but I'm in this very technical field. It's very, and also, I need to be in a field where I get to be one with who I am, and already coming into advertising has allowed and now I'm focusing on writing more articles and all that sort of stuff. So it's that continual journey of just being in tune with myself completely, like Writing I would say is a core to who I am. Right? I love writing at one point in time I was really good at it. And I, if I have a regret it would be that I didn't write more because I always thought it'd be a skill set I would always have. But like anything, you don't use it, you lose it. So that's getting back into that. Writing. I'd love to write a novel one day. I'm working on it. Good. I've been working on it for the last 12 years now. But yeah, yeah.

CK LIN 1:07:27
Wow. Beautiful. I love it. Well, I mean, you certainly do have the experience Yeah, to to write that. Right. You came from my creative background. You got into data and then yeah, you are very internally aware. And yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Is there anything else that you'd like to share with our audience know in terms of your intention of inspiring them to live a more purposeful life,

ANAS GHAZI 1:07:54
I would say, you know, at the end of the day in life, we all and I'm still learning As I go, so I'm definitely not a foremost authority, I think to that nature, but I can only speak from my experience, at least from my experience, I'm the best at it. So from my experience, you know, life is tough, it is hard, that it always gets better. I think it's about the mindset. And you know, it's always just no matter what, show up, show up on the good days, show up on the bad days, even if it's difficult, even if that means just getting out of bed, but just show up and put your step and put one foot in front of the other, to live your best life.

CK LIN 1:08:31
Beautifully said, thank you enough for being on the show. One thing I forgot to do, I'm going to do that right now and really acknowledge you for being vulnerable and being open about your previous experiences. Because I know that this is atypical of your normal interviews, where most people just want the soundbite. They want the tactics they want, you know an answer, right. Whereas you actually were able to, you went there, right, you talked about some of your pain or growing up from personal things with your sister with your mom and everything. I really, really appreciate it deeply. No, that's not that's an extraordinary thing that you did. So I acknowledge you're going there I acknowledge you for just being being flow allowing to come without filtering things right. Thank you for being here. I'm out of infinite number of other things that you could be doing you're here spending time with me now.

ANAS GHAZI 1:09:28
I'm loving it. I'm loving the setting. I'm just loving all of it. I just like it. It's different. And this is good. You know, I think it's, it's all about the experience.

CK LIN 1:09:35
So guys, listen to what Anas shared a basically share with us his playbook of how he navigate his career path, finding his Dharma and cultivate this beautiful, successful career that he's had and continue on making an impact with the world. So try some of these tactics out and let us know the results of it. I'm sure He and I both were really appreciate how this has impacted your life in your career in your life. All right, my friends have a beautiful rest of the day.

ANNOUNCER 1:10:08
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