144 Danny Miranda: The Craft of Deep Conversations

[00:00:00] CK: My next guest is Daniel Miranda.

He's on a mission to help 1 million people building better habits. He's also the host of the Danny Miranda podcast. You can find him on Twitter at Hey, Danny Miranda. Thanks so much for being here, Danny or joining Nobel warrior.

[00:00:20] Danny: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to get it.

[00:00:23] CK: One of the thing that's really endearing for me is your ability to hold space. And I want to start there because your ability to listen so intently and powerfully our have you and your guests say new things that surprise even themselves. And that is not a usual ability, especially at a young age that you are in right now.

So if you can delve into more of that or really appreciate it.

[00:00:54] Danny: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that comes from a place of listening to myself. [00:01:00] I often wasn't curious about the world around me. I will often wasn't really a good listener at all for all my life, but I think that changed when I started to meditate and when I started to listen to my own.

[00:01:14] CK: And when was that?

[00:01:16] Danny: That was at age 24. So approximately three years ago, two and a half maybe. And I started to really listen to myself and I was like, wow, there's a voice in here that speaking that's that hasn't been paid attention to for a long time. And I started to listen to that voice and I listened some more and I listened to more.

And then I was like, wow, I'm really curious about the world around me. You know, what are other people saying? What are their ideas? And then the better that I got at listening to myself, the better I got at listening to the world around me. So for me, it was internal first and then external later on. And it was just a, a wonderful [00:02:00] discovery of, oh wow.

I really can listen to people. Well, and this is coming from somebody who, who, wasn't a good listener. Wasn't curious before. So yeah, if I could do it, I feel like anyone can, it feels like.

[00:02:13] CK: Yeah. Um, I'm going to push you a little bit on that because I would say when people start to listen to themselves and they tend to be, they treat that voice as real, the thoughts, feelings, emotions, and the mental images.

Oh, then they go into this narcissistic almost way of thinking about all the world is, you know, my, my thoughts, my ideas is the world basically, but you actually went in a whole different direction. You, you got to curious about other people and their life. So, so, so say a little bit more about that because that's an unusual direction.

Typically when people started paying attention to what's happening inside their mind. [00:03:00] Yeah.

[00:03:00] Danny: What I realized was that I wasn't the voice at all, and that these voices that I was hearing my own voices were. Not representative of me. Maybe they were representative of a given mood that I was in, in any given day.

But when I did a 60 minute meditation session, I would sometimes often notice that my thoughts would contradict each other. So if they were to contradict each other within a 60 minute timeframe, then like those thoughts clearly aren't me because it's like, oh wow, I'm really bored. Oh, wow. I'm really excited.

Well, it's like it, to me, it was fascinating because the more that I witnessed my thoughts, the more that I realized, I wasn't those thoughts at all, which made me more curious. And so the reason why I didn't feel attached to them is because I saw how contradictory they were.

[00:03:55] CK: Hmm. Okay. So since, okay, I'm going to come back to about other people, you know, as a [00:04:00] listener or a space holder and all that stuff later on, this is important.

So make sure that I come back to that, but since we're talking about meditation, you're also really big on doing radical self experiments. And then one experiment that you did is 60 days, 60 minutes of meditation. So it was, and that's where you're referring to, right? Yeah.

[00:04:21] Danny: And that continued on past the 60 days, probably till, for another six months after that.

Cause I was just so curious about myself and I stopped doing that when I kind of felt like I wasn't gaining anything from it anymore. Um, but there was just like habits, habits have periods where they go and they, and they're exciting. And then they're not. So I guess I entered into a period. It wasn't as exciting.

I wasn't showing up for myself as I wanted to. And so I, I was like, wow, I need to do this again in the future, but not right now. Now's not the right time for me to do it, but so [00:05:00]

[00:05:00] CK: we can talk about habits. I'm sure Winky going that too. But I wanted to double click on what you discovered during the meditative process.

Yeah. And by the way, what you have done, it sounds a lot like a passionate, have you heard of that before? Have you done

[00:05:20] Danny: it? Yeah. It's the, it's the 10 day silent retreat. Yeah, I haven't done it, but I've heard of

[00:05:28] CK: it. Yeah. I think, um, as a, as a, as a radical seeker that you are, I think you really enjoy that.

And I'll describe briefly for those that don't know what a posture is essentially is 10 days of silence. Um, you're with other people, but you don't make eye contact with other people. Wow. And you don't have any note taking devices whatsoever. The whole idea of this 10 day experience is [00:06:00] that you are with you and your thoughts alone.

And, and, um, and obviously they provide food and you have a sleeping quarter and all those things, but essentially you, uh, take on being a monk, you know, monastic lifestyle for 10 days. And I have done many, many different radical sub experiments as well. And that this was one of the most difficult things I've ever done.

And I've done lots of different things. Yeah.

[00:06:29] Danny: Yeah. Um, I'm really looking forward to trying that out. Cause it's been on my to do list for quite some time is just explore the mind for, for that period of time.

[00:06:42] CK: And I think you enjoy it because of the intensity of this radical introspection. You've done it for one hour per day, right?

This is you wake up at sometimes at four 30 in the morning, depending on how early you want to wake up officially, you're [00:07:00] supposed to wake up at five 30 ish and then you meditate for basically two hour at a time, 90 minutes at a time. And if you want, you don't take breaks, you can continue to meditate throughout, but it's 90, 90 minutes cycles from five 30 all the way to roughly about 6:00 PM at night.

And then you just continue to do that for 10 days.

[00:07:23] Danny: Wow. Yeah, yeah. That that's powerful. And I did something similar, which was like a five day retreat with no speaking to anybody, but I did bring books and I did bring journals and I brought additional resources that I think in Vipassana are not allowed or are not used.

[00:07:42] CK: Yeah, no, one's going to police you about what to do or what not to do. They just advise you not to do it because the whole idea is, is this, when you speak to someone you expending energy, right? When you read books, when you're taking notes, you're now not [00:08:00] being with yourself. Yep. You're out of the present moment effectively.

So the idea is that you are continuously noticing what's arising from, within you into images, body sensations, thoughts, emotions, allow yourself to watch the, the, uh, the coming and going the impermanence of these things. So

[00:08:23] Danny: how, how

[00:08:24] CK: often have you done it? I've done one time. It was, it was the most challenging thing I've done.

Um, and I'm also of this. Um, my spiritual practice is more along the line of planning. Right. So, so that's the, the, the style that I like more, I like things intense, but not drawn out for 10 days. Gotcha. That's my personal preference. So that's why I haven't returned. You know, haven't had to attend date block yet.

[00:08:58] Danny: Have you [00:09:00] considered adding the psychedelic to the Vipassana? I remember Tim Ferriss talking about it and he did that to intensify the experience.

[00:09:11] CK: Right. But that's, that's fucking with the program. You see what I mean? Totally, totally. Because the idea is you do it pure, right. Without any kind of catalyst actually.

Right. That's a huge part of it is no catalyst of any source. You just allow yourself to be all natural, be with your thoughts rather than trying to mess with. You know, and trying to amp up some emotions or thoughts even more. So typically you're not supposed to do that.

[00:09:42] Danny: Well, we'll send the letter to 10 minutes and explain to him what he's doing wrong.

[00:09:47] CK: Uh, I mean, you know, Tim, Tim is Tim. I actually met him, um, at burning man. He camped out on Bernie man camp. Uh, and it was a, it was a beautiful experience watching him as a [00:10:00] regular human, uh, not just the persona, I think Veritas, but as a, as a regular

[00:10:04] Danny: human. Yeah. And I'm sure when you get to that level of stardom the persona, and even when you do something like a podcast in any respect, it's like the persona versus the actual human.

And it's like the best people at it can authentically express themselves as they are. And. Uh, close gap between the persona and the real person who you would encounter on the street. And it's why we feel like we know Joe Rogan, or we feel like we know Tim Ferriss would that actually medium. Cause it feels as if that's the real guy and we have the sense for when people are putting on a front.

And so, yeah, I, uh, it's something I'm cognizant of as somebody who does podcasts, it's like, is this really what I would say if I was talking to this person at this moment? Or is this [00:11:00] something that I want people to see me as a particular way? So I'm going to change subconsciously parts of my being to present that to the

[00:11:10] CK: world.

Yeah. I really appreciate that level of self-awareness. Is, am I authentically expressing who I really am to another human Daniel Miranda's Kaitlin, whoever, or am I trying to predict. You know, perform to the audience, like, Hey, look at me. I'm so awesome. I'm so smart. I'm so brilliant. I'm so wise, you know, a performative component to it.

And obviously, you know, it's all, there is a performative component to it, but I do my best to just focus on women speaking to, as a human, rather than trying to like, Hey, we're all performing here. Kind of that's the way I think about it. My brother

[00:11:54] Danny: listens to, I think every podcast that I do, and

[00:11:58] CK: I know what brother,

[00:11:59] Danny: [00:12:00] I know he's the best blessed and man.

And he said to me, I did episode 61 with Ali Abdullah. And my intro for the episode was. You know, guys, I dropped the ball on this one. I wasn't as present as I normally am. I didn't ask the question that I wanted to, I wasn't able to flow with the conversation. And that's what I said as the intro. And my brother said, oh my God, I've never heard a podcast where the person admitted like their own fault or like explain their own fault before it started.

And I thought, wow, like that,

[00:12:39] CK: I get the, he kinda like, ah, you shouldn't have done that. Or, you know, how, how did he receive your public admission?

[00:12:48] Danny: He, he appreciated it. He was like, wow, this is really authentic. This is is awesome. And funnily enough, a lot of people commented like that was just in your head [00:13:00] than that.

You did a bad job at that episode. Like I thought it was great or I didn't notice a difference. So it's just funny the voice we have in our head and. Maintaining authentic expression,

[00:13:14] CK: but yeah, to that point, right, circling back to the meditation conversation, because we are not part of my big takeaway from the experiences, the silence, the boredom, you came, such a container that compressed all of my thoughts, feelings, emotions, all of it at the same time.

So as the day goes on longer and longer, it becomes more and more, um, compress and bigger, uh, um, high pressure crucible. And the biggest takeaway from is I am not my thoughts or my feelings, emotions, or my body sensations, all my mental images.

How could I be this ever present, um, awareness? You [00:14:00] just watch. Just like the ocean waves calming and going. That's a huge takeaway in a very, not intellectual understanding, but a visceral understanding of like, oh, okay. Anyways. Yeah. What, when, why I brought that up is when you analyze with self assess afterwards, how do you not let your evaluate evaluation voice or critical voice taking over of what you actually did?

So I think you are right. And also your, your supporters were right as well. So how do you choose which perspectives, which narrative to take on as you are on this journey to be the next generation, Joe Rogan, Oprah and support, right.

[00:14:57] Danny: I think that a previous version of myself. [00:15:00] Would have attached my identity to what I felt like the performance or the podcast was like, oh, I did a bad job.

Therefore, I am bad at podcasting, but with the benefit of meditation and understanding that I am not what I just thought about this episode, I was like, listen, that was one performance. That was one podcast on the road, too many. So that doesn't define me. That just was one example of me not doing the craft to the level that I think I can.

And so, I mean, that's how I, I don't let it, I just keep moving and continue on. Um,

[00:15:40] CK: so we're still in the realm of conversation, right? Conversation as a listener conversation, as a podcaster conversations to interview, or who in your mind is that person who is the same, who has the same persona, private, public, and private, who just embodied.[00:16:00]

How they really are.

[00:16:03] Danny: Yeah. I mean, I don't know because I don't live with them, but it's

[00:16:08] CK: like experience emotional

[00:16:10] Danny: experience. Yeah. From the emotional experience, Joe Rogan is one, Tim Ferris is another. Okay. Where it seems to me like, oh, wow. Like these are real people who are willing to just be themselves in, in a real way.

And perhaps it's just by virtue of doing it for eight years and 12, 13 years. Right? Like the longer you do it, the more I believe the connection happens, if you're, self-aware the connection being between the performative person and the, the real self. Um, and I think the more you do it, the better you get at speaking your truth to the camera, speaking your truth to the listener.

[00:16:59] CK: [00:17:00] Mm. Mm. I know you give them a lot of credit and the Joe Rogan's and then Tim Perez. And in which I also appreciate, um, I think, um, this is my second podcast and I stop my first podcast after the six episodes. And then, um, my friend pointed me to Joe Rogan said, Hey, listen to Joe Rogan. One-to-one hundred versus Joe Rogan, 1000.

You could see the progression of his skills as a, as a, as an interviewer, the quality of questions that he has, the Spacey holes, how he knew jacks and so forth, you could see the progression. Right. So, um, my friend told me, don't compare yourself to someone who has been in the game for a thousand episodes versus it was just at the beginning.

So I was like, oh yeah, that's right. So I keep remembering, okay. B. Joe Rogan 1000. I mean, as a, as an inspiration to keep going.

[00:18:00] So that was a segue to this, this thing, though, what they're doing. Amazing. I think what you bring in something else altogether. That's what I was going to take on. Oh, your ability to provide that space for people to go deep is way different than the Joe Rogan's or the tin Ferris. My perspective, not the truth, of course, because the guests who goes on their show say lots of contents, And they're really good at delving into a different aspects of the content of their guests, their expertise, their life experiences, and so forth.

But what makes your listening ability unique is you allow people to bare their soul on your show. And I'm not the only one who has ever said that to you. I'm sure. [00:19:00] Could you say a little bit more about that? What makes your listening ability that space, that you create that special?

[00:19:11] Danny: Well, first of all, thank you for the kind words.

And second, I do feel like I'm doing something different than them. And a lot of other podcasts I listened to and the difference is a lot of people are focused on the what, and I'm focused on the. I'm focused on the person themselves and focused on what makes them them, but like what's beneath what they normally talk about.

Right. And it frustrates me when I get the same answers that I've heard on other podcasts. It frustrates me when I'm not able to get them speaking about something they didn't even know they had. And the reason why it frustrates me is [00:20:00] because my aim with the conversation is not to like, get a trick or a tip or something like that out it's to get them at their deepest level.

And you can't always do that with one hour with somebody you just met, but the better I am at the craft for me, it's about how can I get this person to bear part of their soul, to this conversation. And so that's, that's a great insight.

[00:20:29] CK: Yeah. I mean, I'm listening to your stuff. I'm saying to myself, holy shit, like this guy can get people to the depth of their soul, right?

Th th the, this there's a soul expression within such a short amount of time is impressive. Cause my, uh, podcast experiences 90 minutes or longer, I just need that much more runway in one or two, you know, tear, you know, tear away the, the, the, the superficial layers, but you can just like cut right [00:21:00] through it.

That is impressive to me. And as you know, already, I contextualize my questions with a lot of words, as a way to get at this intangible quality, this essence I'm trying to get at, whereas your questions are succinct and elegant. You give people a lot of space. So you actually don't say a lot. So say more about that because.

It's your unique superpower.

[00:21:32] Danny: Thank you. Um, one thing Joe Rogan talks about sometimes with comedians is the economy of words and how a good comedian uses a very little amount of words to get their point across. And I think about that sometimes when I'm re listening to my old episodes, how can I use less words to get across the same point?[00:22:00]

I remember so specifically listening to episode 36 with Kevin Lee, and there were so many things when I listened to the back, I said, no, no, no, you could have said this much shorter. And so that when I had my episode with Gary V I chopped down so much of what I would have said, and I think it's a balance

[00:22:24] CK: live or post.

[00:22:28] Danny: Live, I don't, I edit very little for my podcast because I want to show the real progression. I plan on doing this for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. And so I want to show, this is me at episode 200. Now look at me at episode a thousand. I want, because I don't want to put on a front of something that I'm not using the power of editing and maybe that's my own flaw.

Maybe I'd grow faster as the podcast. If I made it 10 minute episodes and chopped it up. But like, I want [00:23:00] people to see the real progression of who I am. And so if it takes longer, it takes longer, but I I'm committed to that process of getting better and how I get better as relistening to old episodes and seeing how much I would take for an answer or a question, and then say, oh, you could say that in a lot less by saying X, Y, or Z.

So

[00:23:20] CK: let me ask you a question. How often do you listen to old episodes and then end when you listen, is it from the perspective of a critic or is it a perspective of a fan?

[00:23:34] Danny: Both. And that's a superpower. So I listened to every episode over now. I started doing that for the past, like 20 episodes. Cause I'm doing timestamps for each episode.

So I'm like writing out, I'm listening to it at two X speed, but sometimes I'll just go back and listen to it at 1.5 speed, random old episodes. And some part of me is. Wow. That's really good. Like [00:24:00] you're really good at this Danny. And another part of me is like, dude, what were you thinking? Why didn't you expand on this point?

What's so I have both. And, uh, that, that is a super power from my perspective, because if you can look at the good and look at the bad, you probably get a real sense for the truth of what

[00:24:16] CK: is going on. Now. I want to double click on that point because especially for overachievers, the overachiever types, most of them just wear the critic role, uh, when they listened back to their stuff, I think that's fine.

It pushes the quality of work even higher, and that's good. But at the same time, I think it's healthier to where both the fan, as well as the critic, because in my mind, if we don't nurture our soul ourselves, If you're waiting for other people to validate our work versus our own, I just don't think it's healthy.

I think it's healthy. Or if you, if one could, you know, be our biggest fan, I listened to my own [00:25:00] podcast as well. That's why I asked. I think it's bad-ass I think that's awesome, right? He's like, yeah, this is good stuff, you know? And, and that's the same kind of also think, Hey, um, here's what worked, here's what didn't work.

Here's what's missing. How, how, how one could get better next time.

[00:25:19] Danny: Totally. No, I think they're both so important. And I think what I often find from interviewing so many people is like the negative one they're fueled by the negative. And I just think that leads to a, it leads to a worst place. From my perspective, it leads to you're using fuel.

That is. Is not the best energy source. And when you can use the fuel of positivity, it's almost like it's never ending. It's like imagined love. Like there's no end to the amount of love that you can feel. And it's like [00:26:00] the love for your parent gives you more love if you really think and sit in it and your love for yourself, if you really think it incentive, it gives you more love for the things around you.

But it's like the hate. It feels like it it's going to a worst place if pursued endlessly. And it feels like it puts you in a worst place.

[00:26:20] CK: The analogy that I give is use fuel. Think of basically you're using 89 versus 92, right? Which kind of fuel burns cleaner to me. Passion burns cleaner than say a negative emotions without, I mean, powerful.

Don't get me wrong. Like there's real power in anger or resentment, or let me show you this right. There's real power there at the same time, it comes with a lot of residue. And then I, again, if, if I think just net net, honestly, if I even just think [00:27:00] utilitarian wise, I want a cleaner fuel. Yeah.

[00:27:04] Danny: But a lot of people will say to that.

Well, if I work with joy, maybe I won't be as motivated to do it. That's a lot of the rebuttal you often hear. I often hear when I am faced with telling people that what's your response to that.

[00:27:23] CK: Um, so it's an evolution of my own. I in my younger days in my twenties, I would say, yeah, you know, definitely used one.

That's more potent. And then, but throughout my own journey, my own development as a human, um, just burns more cleanly in also you leads to more serendipity and people want to be around the energy of joy and passion, uh, and, and, and a likeness versus someone who was like, let me show you.

[00:27:59] Danny: Yeah. [00:28:00] So true. So true.

And the rebuttal to that, just playing devil's advocate. Cause I'm on your side. The rebuttal to that is no one wanted to be around Michael Jordan. No one wanted to be around Steve jobs, but look what they did for society. That's the rebuttal that I'll

[00:28:17] CK: often hear. Yeah. Yeah. But for me the life. Let's see, how do I say this?

Um, so I dunno if you heard this, um, this, um, this, this quote by, uh, I think his last name is I'm the captain of my soul. I'm the master of my fate. So if that's the case, how, what kind of life do I want to engineer? What kind of life the one want to create? Do I want to be the Michael Jordans or the Steve jobs of the world who yes.

Achieve a lot, but doesn't have the great vibe of togetherness [00:29:00] around him. That's not my choice. I like to be in, you know, show others of what's possible living in a lab with joy and purpose in hence why this podcast, right?

[00:29:14] Danny: Yeah. No, I think that's beautiful. And I think that's the appropriate response because at the end of the day, you need to live with the energy that you put.

And that's why a lot of people who are, are negative or based in fear, a lot of people get upset at those people, but I feel sorry for them because they have to live with the jealousy or the envy. And, and I, I want them to feel whole, I want them to feel how I'm feeling, which is like happy and excited about life and joyous and looking at the good in others.

And when I see somebody who has a quick reaction and flip somebody off, or just as putting out that negativity, my first reaction is truly, [00:30:00] man, I feel sorry for you. I want you to feel better. I want you to feel more whole. Um, and so yeah, you have to live with the energy you put out, I think is a really important point to the whole thing.

[00:30:13] CK: Thanks for sharing your perspective. I want to come back to the art of listening, because like I said, you have a unique superpower. So I wanted to, you know, really not to so much get a recipe, but just more of a discourse of what are you consciously doing or, or unconsciously doing that you may not be even ware of.

So, one thing that I, that I noticed is your use of silence. And then also you use a tempo and let me contextualize a little bit, my style is very calm, very slow.

[00:30:51] Danny: Yeah.

[00:30:52] CK: And, and, but yet I contextualize a lot. Right. And, um, so for you, [00:31:00] you, your temple is pretty upbeat and you give a lot of spaciousness for your guests.

And so you say very, very low. So say more about the conscious choices of tempo and silence as you craft this art. That is your podcast.

[00:31:20] Danny: Yeah. What did deep and juicy question? Um, if I am upbeat, I am a positive person which comes across hopefully in the interviews. But with that being said, I know the importance of giving conversation, giving interviews a space or giving the other person space to breathe because I can hit you with that energy non-stop.

But if I do, I also need to give time for the person to hear it for the person to settle in on it. And Chris Williamson said something, Chris, Williamson's a great interviewer hosts, the modern wisdom [00:32:00] podcast. He said the importance of letting a question. Not wanting to interject is actually a form of confidence because it's saying to the other person, I trust in you to answer this at your own pace, whenever you feel ready.

And I'd be curious to actually find out why that is like, why is silence a sign of confidence? But that is part of the process is like giving somebody a bunch of energy, giving them like my perspective, my view, but then also juxtaposing it with nothingness. And that creates beauty for some reason.

[00:32:49] CK: Um, so for you, it's a conscientious choice to when you ask questions, be really upbeat and then silence.

Actually, [00:33:00] one thing I noticed, I don't know. I don't see the side-by-side typically you want on your podcast? Yeah. All I hear is just silence. And what are you doing over there and doing the silent nod or say yes and cut it out or anything like that at all? Cause I don't hear anything.

[00:33:18] Danny: Yeah. Well actually it's funny.

It's so funny that you mentioned this because I just posted an interview with Rory Sutherland and with Rory, him as a person is tends to talk for long amounts of time. Like he can go, I dunno, 10 minutes just speaking nonstop. And because of that, I consciously chose to add a lot of verbalized. Yup. Every every 30 seconds, I would say something because I didn't want the podcast to be Rory talking for 10 minutes at a time, me getting my next word in.

After that I wanted it to be [00:34:00] more of a back and forth. And so consciously most of the time, 98% of the time I let the person just be and just sit in their own thoughts. And, yeah, that's a conscious choice. And to go to your point, I am nodding letting the person know I am listening on the other side. And, uh, that, that just one thing that I also picked up from Chris Williamson, it was great, you know,

[00:34:25] CK: um, Andrew Warner, uh, mix.

Okay. So Andrew, um, and I, we crossed paths while he was doing Santa Monica back in 2008. And, um, I've been following his work since 2006 ish, something like that. And he, his style is. A little edgier, sharper, a little bit more confrontational. He likes that kind of stuff. So, which is great. Right. I admired the, the balls, right.

The courage of asking be confrontational. But one thing I also really admire his, [00:35:00] he, I do a lot of, uh huh. Yes. Understand like this type of I'm with you, but he is just nothing. I appreciate that. So, uh, do you see yourself ever get to that point of just minimum movement? Just, just stare into the soul of their, of their

[00:35:31] Danny: being?

Yeah. I feel like I did that a lot when I did in-person episodes, which I did over the past. Uh, w two weeks or so, which I'll be releasing very soon on one of those, you can see the intent of looking into Noah Kagan sole you'll be able to see me and him, if you choose to listen to that, because it's only one camera.

The other two, I did were two camera setups. And so you wouldn't be [00:36:00] able to see me looking directly into the person's soul, but yeah, it's one thing that the audio engineer said afterwards was wow. Like you were really dialed in, you were really focused. And I think he was just witnessing what I do to the computer, what I'm doing in this moment where I'm so locked in on your eyes, where you are.

The only thing that matters is like how I'm approaching and thinking about it from a podcasting perspective.

[00:36:32] CK: No, that level of intensity is very intimidating for 99.9999. Person, uh, you know, uh, in the world. How do you, so you may have answered this question already, but I'm going to ask this again. How do you juxtapose?

So it's not all heavy, all serious, all superintendents stare into your soul type of experience. So [00:37:00] it's also jovial and fun. And Joe Rogan doesn't do that so much. Right? Joe, Rogan's very jovial and funny. He's a comedian. He knows how to lighten things up very quickly. So can you say a little bit more about what do you do to juxtapose the intensity of your stairs?

[00:37:19] Danny: I think that it's nodding often and also giving a person a feel for my intent. Right? My intent is. Gotcha. Or let me get something out of you. My intent is to explore your soul and my intent is to, and usually the person gets it within a first, the first question. And it's why I think people open up to me so heavily is because they realize subconsciously or consciously that I went deep into their archive to ask a first question.

That is something that they don't even remember about themselves often and a memory that they haven't thought [00:38:00] about. Often an example would be for David peril. I asked him when I first interviewed him, let me, let me learn about your high school golf team and Alec and Zander and how they operated on the golf team.

And I know your junior year was bad, but I know your senior year, you turned it all around. Take me through that. And his reaction was just. How did this kid know that about me? Noah Kagan asked me, where are you in my text messages? I thought that was a private thing. And so when it's juxtaposed the stark attention to that person is juxtaposed by the care and attention I'm giving their history, which people take as giving attention to themselves.

[00:38:55] CK: I love that cause cause what you just [00:39:00] describe for anyone listening, you wanted to be that great listener. How do you not just in the moment, give that great care, right? You have my full a hundred percent attention, no phone, no nothing right here now. Right? That intensity at the same time to know essentially the arc of their history, doing your prep.

I'm a huge proponent of pre. Not the Larry King style of no prep. Like I don't believe in that. I think private's

[00:39:30] Danny: important. Well, I tried that. I tried the Larry King style and I was like, well, I can compare that to one where I did the prep. And for me personally, the D prep wins every day and connects with people at a deeper level.

[00:39:46] CK: Hmm. Awesome. I'm going to cough for a moment. Give me a moment.

Thank you. I appreciate the old patients. Of course. Okay. So[00:40:00]

anything else you want to say about the, the spaciousness, right. This energetic spaciousness that you can create as a podcast? Because I will say this a lot of people think podcasting is about making. About generating stuff, right. Making stuff. But in my mind, the spaciousness very similar to music, you know, happens in the spacious of notes.

So how you articulate or how you create the quality of the spaciousness would dictate the quality of listening experience. And again, I think you're really, really good at it. And not a lot of people talk about the spaciousness that happens between notes. Is there anything else you wanted to add? Maybe energetically, maybe spiritually, any, anything that you wanted to contextualize this?

The question even further,

[00:40:56] Danny: I would say to that point, there's probably something going on that I'm [00:41:00] not conscious of. And what I mean by that is I spent a lot of time in the space of no space. And that's just with me personally, of like sitting down meditating, going about my thoughts and just going deeper within my mind.

And if I didn't do that practice, if I didn't meditate for 20 minutes a day, if I didn't, if I didn't have that as a core of my being, there is no doubt in my mind that the space that you're describing would not be the same. I would either be too, too much pressing on the person too assumptive, or I would be not assumptive enough or not pressing enough.

And I think that the space you're describing is a result of me spending time deep in my own mind. And I think that there's something going on that I'm not a hundred percent cognizant of.

[00:41:59] CK: [00:42:00] Hmm. So upon reflection of what you said for me, Uh, a podcast experience is a magnifier of, or amplifier or a product, whatever your way.

It, you S you say this of a spiritual, energetic transmission between two people. Yeah. And in the space that we create, uh, I'll use a coaching, um, uh, analogy. I, the ideal coach from my perspective, create a space for the person to be wholly themselves as they are with all of their idiosyncrasies, with all of their brilliance, with all of their shadows, whatever the thing is is, so then they feel free to explore.

What's it truly like to be listened to or show up as a, as a spiritual being, living in human life. To me, that's a potent code. [00:43:00] Yeah, and I think pod-casters does the same thing in an energetic sense. How can we create that space? And by our curiosity, intensity, and then passion, and to, to, um, draw out to inspire the person unique expression that may, they may not have ever had the chance to do that.

[00:43:22] Danny: Yeah. I think that it comes from a place of, you know, whatever occurs, whatever happens, happens, and that is what, whatever happens is what is supposed to have happened in that moment and being okay with that. If you cough in the middle of me speaking, that's completely cool. If you have to take a call, if you have to being okay with what is and not fighting reality is such an important part of the process.

And. To understand that [00:44:00] people are whatever they do, they do. And that's okay. And to let it be and to, to just be okay with what is, and not try to fight it is 1000%, um, a reason why my podcast has touched people at the level you're talking about it's because it's okay. If you did something wrong or you did something right, or you in, in the conversation you had to get up or whatever, it's all good.

It's all good. And that mindset and that belief has really helped me create beautiful conversations for people's. Cause I just let people be who they really are. Hmm.

[00:44:46] CK: And do you S do you think that's the mark of a great interviewer from your perspective? Cause you mentioned Oprah. Uh, Jeff, uh, Joe Rogan, Tim Ferris.

[00:44:57] Danny: I don't know. I don't know, because [00:45:00] I think Joe Rogan does because it's three hours and it's just like, this is who the person really is. And he says like the first hours to get them open enough. So that by the second hour you could really understand who they are. So maybe, um, but I don't, I haven't heard them talk about that topic

[00:45:19] CK: specifically.

So, so on. Well, I mean, we're all, I don't know them personally, so where I'm projecting here, I'm speculating. I don't know. Um, but I L I only mentioned those names because you mentioned those names. You said you want to be this generation's Oprah on temp, uh, and Joe Rogan. And then you mentioned him Perez.

So, you know, I look up to, um, well, Joe Rogan, um, Tim Ferris, but more. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm a becoming a new fan of you, so thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You are [00:46:00] on that list. The Charlie rose and the Howard Stern's right. How can you, you know, use very intentionally different mechanics, different techniques to, for people to say things that they surprised them in themselves?

[00:46:17] Danny: Yeah. I, I think for me how I do that is deep research. And so I don't, I think I got that part from Tim Ferris and maybe I get a different part from Joe Rogan of like just letting people be who they are. And I think this is the thing about interviewing and writing and a lot of other creative pursuits.

I'm sure it's like you just steal from your heroes and you create a version of your heroes that is works and it, and it takes time for that to occur. It's like, I can't remember which author hand copied another author that he [00:47:00] loved, where I think it was like the great Gatsby. He can't copied it word for word, just so he could hear or feel what it felt like to write an incredible novel.

And it's like, what you do is you just copy your heroes until you become your own hero. And that's really what I'm doing with interviewing is like, you need to study the greats if you want to become one and take what's great.

[00:47:22] CK: Yeah. Okay. So, so on that note, um,

so how we met is throughout your friend, uh, S Bree, right? She had a whole podcast cohort. She was teaching them some mechanics and some content around the tools, the techniques, the frameworks, and all those things. And while I agree with you, yes, copy form until you transmute them or turn them into your own style.

But at the same time, I think the caveat, but, um, a [00:48:00] lot of teachers don't say is eat, but if all you do is copying, then you're not really internalizing the lessons per se. Right. Which I don't think that's what you were saying.

[00:48:11] Danny: No, not at all. I'm not, I'm not suggesting that you try to be Joe Rogan or try to be 10 verse.

What I am saying is that if you see something that they do something that they say a way, they say something, see how that feels for yourself. One thing that I do is I keep a list of great questions for interviewing, which I'd be happy to share with you. Um, and it's just, uh, it's probably now like 30 questions and I started it.

I dunno, maybe like three months ago, six months. Just whenever someone says a good question, I hear it in a podcast. I hear somebody do something spectacular, get an answer out of somebody. I just write it down. And I hope that by virtue of writing it down and reviewing it every week or [00:49:00] so, one of those questions might pop up in an interview you listened to and you might say, wow, where did he get that question from?

Well, I stole it from this person or that person. And that's kind of what I mean, it's like take the good parts.

[00:49:13] CK: Okay. So as soon as you drop that gem, what's one example of such a question.

[00:49:19] Danny: Yeah. So let me pull it up because I, okay. Sure. I'll give you my memory test. Yeah. I'll give you many examples. Okay.

Great questions for podcasting slash interviewing. So one, I like this was used originally by Erica Erica, the Barstool CEO said. What is something you've mastered and what is something you're still learning? And I thought that was such a great way to the reason why I liked that question was because one, she asked it to Gary Vaynerchuk and Gary said, wow, that's a great question.

And he stopped. And I was like, [00:50:00] huh. Okay. That's interesting. Let me copy that. And the reason why I like it is because in one sense, like you did before you said what's a positive thing about yourself. And what's a negative thing, basically when you're saying like, are you a critic or a fan when you can make an understand and show people like you're a fan of yourself and you're a critic.

It there's something nice about that. It contextualizes people in a way that is hard to do. So what is something you've mastered? What is something you're still learning? That's why I like another is what is the best. Possible future invention or discovery for humankind. This is more of a content question.

So that's noting that from Stephen Dubner another from Stephen Dubner is what are things you do to keep yourself happy and moving forward every day, that's more of a personal question focused on. And so everyone's going to have different answers to that, but the, I get so excited about questions because questions [00:51:00] are an impact, our reality in a major way, and

[00:51:04] CK: say more about that.

What do you mean if

[00:51:06] Danny: you, if you ask a different question, you get a different answer and you get a different perspective on the world. If I ask you, Hey, how was your day? That's a different question then. What was the most exciting thing that happened in the past 24 hours? That's going to elicit a different response, a different emotion and a different feeling to the conversation.

Well, I was really excited about this. This happened, my brother just called me and it was great. We talked for 20 minutes, but if I say to you, how was your day? You might not say, well, my brother just called me for 20 minutes and it was, you could get the same response, but in a totally different way. Cause you just chose to frame it differently.

And that's what doing 250 episodes in the last two years has really taught me is the way you frame reality impacts other people's perspectives of reality. And that impacts [00:52:00] your perspective. And if you do this to yourself, you frame a different reality for yourself. And it's just based on the questions you asked.

So if you want to get better at living life, a more full rich existence, start asking better questions and you will.

[00:52:12] CK: Yeah. You know, the quality of your life depends hugely on the quality of the question that you ask a Tony Robbins. Yes. Yes I do. He originally.

[00:52:25] Danny: I believe so. I believe he was the creator of that quote or maybe it wasn't, but I've heard him say,

[00:52:32] CK: I mean, it's one of those truisms that like yeah, that makes a lot of sense, right?

Because questions, I think. Okay. So, so as an expert, I've using questions to me. Questions are irresistible. You cannot resist the question. Like there's just no way that you can resist the, Hey, I say the sky is black. I, and fuck that guy's not black, right? Like rejection. [00:53:00] But if I ever asked you, is the sky black and just using that very simplistic, like, oh, I don't know, is it like your brain just automatically?

It goes to work. There is no resistance to questions. So if you are a expert of using questions or asking questions in an intense way, and it's an amazing. I won't say technique, but an amazing tool to inception ideas in people's mind, without them being able to resist it altogether

[00:53:33] Danny: because it opens a loop, right?

Like you open, this is what social media has done. So effectively it, when you open the app, it creates an open loop in your head. Oh, I've got this notification. I have to check it out. Oh, this person did this. I have to, questions are the same way. It opens a loop in the mind. And then it, you need to hear an answer here.

If you're [00:54:00] the one being asked the question, you need to answer the question, at least in your mind in order to proceed because it, I don't know why that is though. It's fascinating. I had never considered why questions force an open loop? Like what do you think? I

[00:54:18] CK: don't know. I think that. The evolution of human brain.

I think, um, I don't have any data, any sophistic way, a sophisticated way to articulate this, but our brains evolved to be problem solving machines. Right? So to me, question is a direct form of a quote-unquote problem or a challenge. And then the brain goes to work, to solve it consciously or unconsciously, just how our bringing evolve to do so.

Uh, have you ever looked into, by the way, does this totally random, but have you ever looked into this whole conversation [00:55:00] is random, but I love it.

[00:55:02] Danny: And that's what our intention, yeah. Let, letting people be who they are. It's still so random life is so random.

[00:55:10] CK: Have you looked into new Orleans Guisti programming or a more direct form of asking questions for some specific intended outcome?

[00:55:21] Danny: No, I have not, but I'm going to write it down because I, I have an NLP book, like a beginner's NLP type book, and I know Tony Robins studied it, studied it at some point, but I haven't dived into it for the purpose of question asking or really at all. So do you have any recommended resources

if

[00:55:41] CK: you have no non-specifically but I would say as a, as a, as a, as a, as a teacher, as a coach, whose job is true, um, elucidate the narratives on one's mind, as well as guiding them towards the [00:56:00] narratives that they want to have reinforced as well as letting go of narratives that they no longer say.

I'm looking to these type of fields, like hypnosis affirmation, because to me, these are all critical skills to live a full, healthy, abundant life. The highest performers that I know I'll do it, you know, in any kind of domains, they experience all of the human emotions and thoughts just like the rest of us.

But I think the key differences they can process negative thoughts and negative emotions very effectively. So these are, I believe humans skills to thrive.

[00:56:47] Danny: It's so fascinating that you say that because I was talking to a girl one time and explaining to her my thought process around some negative thing that had happened.

And I was like, well, I'll just look at it like this. Like, [00:57:00] it's all good because this reason, that reason, this reason. And she said, I wish I could look at the world that way. And it hit me in that moment that what I do in reframing is actually a skill and it's actually beneficial. And I don't think I do anything special, but maybe that's just because I'm in my own brain.

I don't give credit to it in that way. Whereas if somebody else who was dealing with difficult situations or someone like that might say, oh, I wish I could look at the world that way. So yeah.

[00:57:33] CK: So quick question. So you've talked to 250 amazing thought leaders, you know, um, cultural shifters of the world.

How has that shifted your own taste or conversations? Do you get so a couple of choices. Do you get juiced up to talk to everyone that. Or do you get like, huh? You know, regular [00:58:00] conversations are kind of planned for me. I really want to talk to domain experts with very, very nuanced understanding of something.

So then they can articulate, you know, the depth of, uh, what's it mean to be alive.

[00:58:15] Danny: So it's a great question. And I, I recently heard my friend Dickie Bush, uh, say something interesting, I think on creative elements, which is a great podcast. And that was the second time that he had been on. And he said, basically the host, Jay Klaus asked him what, sometimes I have these friends who have blown up craters who have blown up.

And when I spoke to them, you know, the first time and became friends with them, they had a thousand followers. And then, you know, the next time I spoke to them, they had a hundred thousand followers. Like, should I be scared to talk to them? Should I, should I feel weird about reaching out to them? Something [00:59:00] along those lines is what he asked and Dickey said to him, you know, I've grown from 22,000 followers to 200,000 in the past two years.

Does that mean that I became a hundred times smarter, a hundred times wiser, a hundred times more effective as a person, of course not. But sometimes we perceive that to be the case. When we look at these quote unquote experts or thought leaders or people who have made it, quote unquote, we think of them.

Above us in some respect. And it just couldn't be further from the truth. They are just further along on their path and have built an audience. And so to answer your question, which I think is a really good one, is like, do I get more excited for certain people than others? Yeah, I think that's, I think I do, but I'm excited to talk to people in general and I'm [01:00:00] as excited to talk to you as I was to talk to Gary V truly like, and the reason for that is because people excite me and conversations, excite me at such a deep level.

You can probably hear it in my voice. It's like other people's perspectives and ideas can shift the way you look at the world. And because of that, like, it's so incredible. We get to transfer the knowledge we've had in our life, from my mind to yours and yours, to mine and together, we can create something together.

That's beautiful. And so. It doesn't matter that somebody has more followers or more expertise or more knowledge. I'm just excited to talk to people.

[01:00:39] CK: Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Um, I think that, I mean, in some ways it's hard to fathom, um, because you're 26 and again, not to trivialize, what's it like to be 26, but you might, when I was [01:01:00] 26, I didn't have the level of maturity the way that you were thinking about this.

Um, to, to me, all I'm trying to say is, is impressive. Right? It's awesome. I love that. And that, um, yeah, I think, I think it's, and this is one thing that I'll say to the younger CKS. Because I'm fully qualified, right? I'm talking to younger CKS that if you wonder whether or not you say something, say something anyway, because everyone has different energetic vibrations, right.

What's gonna resonate with Danny is not gonna resonate with CK necessarily. So if you want to say something, the younger CKS or those that resonate with you will resonate with you. And does that won't that won't anything you want to say about that? Yeah.

[01:01:57] Danny: So from your perspective, what happened [01:02:00] was you were afraid to say things, that's what I'm getting.

Why, why is that? Why were you afraid to say

[01:02:07] CK: things? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, at the core of it is I wanna make sure it's right before. Ah, I see. Right. I can give you a rationalization of, yes. My scientific background is about facts. And what about your research? So there's the macro environment training me to think that way too, but as I get more mature over time and I realize, Hey, one, every person on this planet have level of insecurity.

I don't care who you are. Right. Even if you're a Nobel Laureate, you know, there, there is that. But, but also, um, what is the level of confidence that you want to say? What's, uh, what's your truth? Like at what point do you feel confident to speak your truth? I think being at the end, that's when it comes down to,

[01:02:59] Danny: [01:03:00] what do you think helped you increase the level of confidence you had in your own thoughts about whether or not they were right, so that you could speak,

[01:03:10] CK: um, And this is a deep question.

So I'm trying to give you a thoughtful answer.

I think a big part of is just I'm 44 today, right? So just having lived long enough to know that truth is very relative. Truth is relative. Now some people may say, well, what about music and mathematics? All of that. Correct. What about science? All of that, correct. At the same time, all of those things built on some level of, uh, uh, assumptions, right?

So it's what they say, turtle all the way down. If you just Google that phrase, you'll see it. Right. So, so what is the, what is [01:04:00] the assumptions one makes let's see, I forgot my train of thought. Turtle

[01:04:05] Danny: all

[01:04:05] CK: the way down, right. Turtle all the way down. So therefore, what I have to say is valid to some people I'm qualified to say something, and that answer has layers because not just factual, but also there's a spiritual component to it as well.

Um, I actually learned is from one of my podcast, guests, Jeff Spencer, you said he is the corner man of former above Lance Armstrong. Um, Bonnell, uh, tiger woods associates, a high, you know, high, high, high level of, uh, um, high performance coach or for, for these people. And he S he said a sentence to me that left an impression.

He said, there's only one of you ever existed in all of [01:05:00] eternity ever.

[01:05:03] Danny: That's good.

[01:05:05] CK: Right. The unique combination of DNA, background circumstances, parents' education system and the life challenges. There's only one of you ever, ever would exist in all of eternity. So therefore, what are you waiting for to share your unique perspective?

So that's, that's a, that's a huge, um, pivotal moment when I heard that, when I actually internalized that sentence,

[01:05:35] Danny: it's almost as if we get, we get nervous or sharing for sharing our truths. But my question to that is always like, what's the alternative and what, what are you scared of happening? When I started to get in touch with myself and be more conscious of [01:06:00] what I was doing on a day-to-day basis and seeing how I had grown.

I felt comfortable sharing my truth because I figured and said to myself, like, this is what I believe now. This may not be what I always believe. And that's okay. There are tweets. I go back and look at 2018. I'm like, I wouldn't have said that today. I wouldn't have looked at, said that in that particular way today, but I I'm so grateful for my younger self for having the courage just four years ago to share the truth of the world in that moment, because it's something to look back on.

It's something to reflect on and it's something to show growth. If I didn't tweet in 2018, I would have grown. But today I wouldn't have been able to witness that growth. And when we speak and we record it and we publish it, which is something, a lot of people are scared to do. You are staking a flag of saying, this [01:07:00] is what I believe in this moment.

But at the same token, you're giving your future self reference and checkpoint to see, have I grown? How have I changed? What I still agree with this? Would I not? And I think that's a beautiful thing and I hopefully will be able to do that until the day I die. Just give myself little checkpoints throughout the internet and throughout time and through recordings and publishings of like, this is where I was at at this moment.

And how beautiful

[01:07:27] CK: now you attributed that level of confidence to your parents. You want to say more about that? Here's a real quick.

[01:07:35] Danny: Yes, absolutely. I mean, my parents are incredible people in the sense of, they always let me be who I am and they didn't judge me for going down a particular path. For example, I started a blog when I was 13 years old, a time management blog, and my parents didn't say.[01:08:00]

You have to take this off right now. This is, you know, this is crazy. You're putting your writing online, which is what some people who were over the age of 30 would have suggested to somebody in 2009 of you should be putting you. Shouldn't be putting your thoughts on the internet. And again, I did it at 15 years old, I started a different a Nick's blog and there was no kid in my high school who was starting a Nick's blog at 15 or at 18.

It just wasn't something people did in 2010, 2011. But my parents were like, this is awesome. Let me drive you to this event. Let me help you in this way. And because of my parents' ability, they're subtle nods to me. Yo, what you're doing is cool. Keep going. Even maybe they didn't explicitly say that. Or I can remember them saying that anytime they always were like, keep doing your thing, keep growing, keep building.

And I'm so grateful for that because I'm doing the podcast now because no one shut me [01:09:00] down when I was 13 or 15 years old.

[01:09:03] CK: Yeah. It's a beautiful thing to hear. How much of that safe container say space, your parents allow you to explore with confidence with courage and, and, and, and at a young age, you didn't know any better.

They're like, oh, okay. The world's like that. So let me go out and explore and then do that. You continue to do that today, even, right. So that's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Uh, how lucky were you to have, uh, I hope we call your mom yesterday.

[01:09:35] Danny: Uh, of course you spent a lot of time together. That's really beautiful, but it's something that I realized that not everyone has when I spoke to my friend Paul Miller, who I think you would really like as well, if you, if you stumbled across him, his whole, whole thing is about work and our relationship with work.

And I was explaining to him just how my mom listens [01:10:00] to every podcast, like my brother and how it's crazy. It's crazy. So cool. Um, and it just made me feel so grateful because he was saying that, you know, the book was something, the book that he published was something that his parents were really proud of.

And it was like the first time that that had happened since his online journey. And I was explaining to him about my parents and like how my mom's listen to every podcast. And I just felt so grateful. For that to happen. And, uh, yeah, I mean, it can't be stated enough, like encouraging people in their pursuits, the people you love is so valued and so important.

And if there's somebody who's doing something in your own life who is weird, or it's slightly weird, but they're really excited about it. Like, what are the subtle ways you can show appreciation for that? For me, it's my mom, listening to everything and being able to, [01:11:00] to go back and forth for like me doing it to my brother.

It's like he has this app that he's building and talking to him about and asking him how the progress is going. So I think it just finding subtle ways to help cheer on those who are in your life, who are doing interesting or, or quote unquote weird things in their own

[01:11:20] CK: lives. Okay. So let's go down that rabbit hole.

Um, you're known as someone who. Is a great relationship builder, community builder, or relationship builder. Right? So what are some of the actionable things that you do that you could share with those that said, Hey, I wanted to build, you know, a network or, uh, you know, uh, relationships with people that it's important in my life.

So what are some of the actionable things that you do or don't do to build relationships with human beings? First of all?

[01:11:57] Danny: Yeah. One big thing I [01:12:00] do is I reach out whenever I stumble across a piece of content or something online that I like.

So you were talking about relationships in the sense of like podcast and network of people who trust me. It's like, there are subtle ways to literally just show love. Right? When I researched podcasts. Go through maybe five or 10 different episodes that the guest has been on. And I go through them and I, I try to figure it out, like, who are they?

What as part of my prep. And every once in a while, I'll find a podcast that blows me away where I'm like this interviewer is incredible. I love how they did this. This is amazing. And then I do a little thing after that, which is the most important part. I send a screenshot of the podcast that I've listened to it and I sent it to the host and I [01:13:00] say, I really appreciate what you did here.

It was incredible how you were able to take this conversation. This place you do amazing work. Hmm. Radio Raheem was just on Joe Rogan's podcast and for the last hour and a half. Delivered in incredible interview of Joe Rogan, where I was like, yo, this guy is killing it. The questions he's asking, uh, it made me so excited the way he was able to navigate.

And so what did I do? I sent him a little message. Yo, the interview you did with Joe Rogan, when he was interviewing you was incredible. Like, thank you so much. I don't know if he'll ever see it. I don't know if we'll ever respond. It doesn't even matter. The point is just sending more love out in the universe and not just for radio Raheem and people who, who already have a bunch of love coming their way, but like for an unknown podcast or who has like a hundred downloads an episode or whatever, like just, uh, I try to give love wherever I can with no, no care about whether someone's going to see it, whether it's stupid, [01:14:00] I'm not afraid to use my voice, to give people love.

And I think that's a really important part about building and maintaining relationships in general.

[01:14:09] CK: Acknowledgement is your currency of love.

[01:14:12] Danny: Exactly. And what do you do when you do deep research and you go into someone's past. What you're really doing is you're acknowledging them and you're giving a wink to them.

And that is the currency of love is like, just acknowledging somebody's past. Because so often we don't ask how you're doing. We don't, we just go to the next meeting. We don't really spend time to love on somebody to really think about them, to look at the world through their perspective. And that's what I attempt to do by making people feel seen.

[01:14:42] CK: I love that, you know, one of my personal practice is taking on acknowledging someone whenever I see someone doing something good in the world, you know, just, you know, I call people up and I say, Hey, I heard you did something great in this [01:15:00] zoom meeting or. Podcast or whatever thing that I see them do, just they're trying, they're there, they're showing up in there.

They're, they're creating, they're contributing to the world. I am make a point to however, small, just let them know, like, Hey, I see what you're doing, keep it up, keep going. And people really appreciate that. And then I think in overall, we just don't acknowledging people enough. So I do my part. I hope to make a however small of a difference for them.

[01:15:31] Danny: Did you always do that or is it a practice that has come more recently?

[01:15:37] CK: Um, I wouldn't say recently, I would say, um, the last, I don't know, seven years or so.

[01:15:46] Danny: What changed eight years?

[01:15:49] CK: Wasn't, it was just a realization that life is too short, rather than reserving our best acknowledgements to if someone's eulogy, that's [01:16:00] what most people do, right?

Like, we'll save the best and when they die, then I'll tell them how important or what kind of difference they make in the world. I just think it's silly. So while do that, while people are still alive and that actually, now that you asked that question, I would say what really pivoted for me was when I started doing like plant medicine ceremonies.

Wow. Just realizing the shortness of life and how beautiful this currency of love the sacred exchange can happen at any moment. So,

[01:16:35] Danny: yeah, I think also when you start looking for places to insert love, it makes the experience of life a lot more. It gives you the power to be like, oh, well this is just a normal quote, unquote normal encounter at the grocery store.

How do I make this experience full of love for the person on the other end? Okay.

[01:16:59] CK: [01:17:00] So, so, so go into that more. Yeah.

[01:17:03] Danny: So one thing I did was 30 days of talking to random strangers. One of the experiments I did, and what I noticed often was it would be like 11 o'clock at night and I'd be like, oh my God, I haven't spoke to anyone all day.

Like I need to get somebody. So I'd go to the gas station. And I knew there was always somebody working 24, 7 at, at the gas station behind the counter. And I'd just be like, Hey, how are you doing? Like, how is, what is your shift then? How long have you been working here? What's going on in your. And dude the level of connection and the appreciation and love that they felt by literally just asking like, oh wow, like, dude, you'd be amazing.

No, one's asked me how I'm doing. Here's 50% off this. Here's take this for free to do this. I'm like, oh my God. Like those people, some of those people are so starving for love in that moment that they're [01:18:00] willing to give you free things. Like just by showing you care. So yeah, that happened a bunch of times and I was amazed.

And also what, it's crazy, what happens to you? I mean, like I remember being a regular at this coffee shop in the city and it was like, uh, it was, it was like a chain rest, uh, chain coffee shop. And I would, I would literally just like get into five minute conversations with people asking how they're doing, asking what's good asking like, like just being there for the person, like showing up often I literally got free.

Okay. Like 10 times it was just weird. It was just like, oh wow. Like people really appreciate love. Like, that's what it is. So that's a little bit on that. Have you had similar experiences and I'm not doing it for the free stuff I'm not doing of course, like a crazy benefit.

[01:18:54] CK: I think that's implied. So, but I'm glad you, you made it expensive.

You're not doing it for the free stuff. You're doing it [01:19:00] as a genuine, um, human genuinely wants, wants to connect and acknowledging people.

[01:19:07] Danny: Yes. Yeah. That's exactly right. And that, that's the joy, that's the reward in and of itself is you connecting deeply with another human and that's like, if you really sit in that reward, you realize like how powerful that is, because then I go back to meditating and I sit in nothingness.

I sit in, wow. What would life be like if it was just the. What would, what would the universe be if I never experienced life, I just experienced blackness forever. And it really makes you appreciate the connection to a stranger makes you appreciate a connection to a friend. It makes you appreciate, uh, a thought leader that comes on your podcast, and now you get to talk to them.

It makes you appreciate life and connection the way that I'd previously never had. So, yeah.

[01:19:56] CK: Have you ever heard the African, um, [01:20:00] adage? I don't think so. U B U N T U M. Won't do. And the lose translation is I am that you are. Yes. So I like who I am as a human being is in direct reflection of those around me.

And then from what I'm gathering is you acknowledge people as they are. Maybe subconsciously, like that's what makes you life rich and an interesting and, and thriving.

[01:20:36] Danny: Yeah, it reminds me. That was the original phrasing of you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with is like, but, and, and it just goes to show like we are in some respect, the same, we share 99.9% of DNA, [01:21:00] right.

Humans do. And yet we so often don't treat each other like that. We treat each other, like that's a, that's a completely different species or that's completely type of person. Or I don't like that type of person. I don't hang around that table. It's like, that's another person. And maybe that's idealistic of me to think like that, but I, um, I've gained a certain level of richness of life.

Like you were saying from. But we are all people.

[01:21:29] CK: So I have a follow-up question for you. This is coming from someone who, who was an introvert. Well, I consider myself to be introverted and that, uh, I like to ask the questions and I don't particularly like small talk. Right? So in my mind, isn't it appropriate to ask at the point of sale, some deep question, even though the intent is to connect, to acknowledge and connect.

So what I [01:22:00] do these days is I will acknowledge something special about whatever their appearance or whatever their behavior, or you know, how they smile, how they're being. But, um, that's the extent of the exchange because of how short of what window during the point of sale is. I'm curious to know a tactically speaking, how do you.

You know, maintain appropriateness and connect and allow for the miraculous to happen. Do we know just brief micro actions or micro interactions together?

[01:22:40] Danny: If I pray for you, what should I pray for? Is a question that Mike Posner, when my poster was walking across America, he had the same trouble. He said, I don't want to do small talk.

I don't want, like, I really want to get deep with somebody. I want to know their soul. What are they about? What's important to them. [01:23:00] And somebody gave him the advice, oh, if you want to get deeper with someone, just ask if I pray for you, what should I pray for? And he found that to be a powerful question.

He found that to be something that he used often and the answers that he got and the level of deepest, he was able to go with people just by asking that question is it was remarkable to hear some of the stories he shared. Yeah, I would, I would suggest that one.

[01:23:27] CK: I love that. And what's, what's one response that you receive that surprise you like, wow, wow.

This store clerk or barista, you know, had the depth of soul that I've never thought it was there. Like anything like that, that surprised you pleasantly

[01:23:45] Danny: nothing comes to mind off the top of my head. And I admittedly haven't used that question often, but this conversation will be a reminder to get that question back in my repertoire [01:24:00] of interacting with people.

[01:24:05] CK: um, well let me ask you this, another follow-up question there. One thing that I do a lot is I have to be very, uh, refined or, or, uh, specific about the word that I use. Right. But at the same time, So a lot of people appreciate it at the same time. A lot of people will also say like, man, that's such a sat word, such a big word, you know, use words.

That's more accessible to sixth graders. Come on. So how do you calibrate the precision of the words that you use at the same time also has reached as well.

[01:24:52] Danny: That's a deep one. Take your time. On that point, [01:25:00] David Parell gave a survey to 10 of his closest friends and he in the survey, he had a couple of different questions, many different questions, but two of them were, what's one thing you hate about me or one thing that I should change about me and another was like, what's your favorite part about me?

And one person said, You seem to ask a lot of questions and I hate how the way you asked the questions and it's really annoying and it's nonstop. Like sometimes you have to respect people's space. Another person said to what they love about him is like you asked so many questions. I love the way you ask questions.

And so my re my reply to you is some people are going to like you for who you are. And some people are going to dislike you for the very same thing, but can you be content with you for how you like to [01:26:00] express, even though some people don't like X or Y about you, because the bigger you get, the more you scale your platform, if you so choose, and, and it happens to you, the more people are going to be.

Hating and loving you for the very same thing. So, um, that's very confusing, huh? Isn't it? It's confusing. It's confusing only if you're confused with yourself. Hmm. It's not confusing if you know yourself, if you, I understand that some people are going to be turned off by my energy and my joy and my excitement and my, you know, some people aren't gonna like that.

And those aren't my people, those aren't me. I'm not going to change who I am because those people don't like that bit of me. And so I think it's just about knowing yourself, but to answer your question about like using words and using big words, but also maintaining reach, I think you should do you, that's my perspective at least is like, if you want [01:27:00] big words and it makes you feel powerful and you enjoy it, it doesn't make you feel part.

It doesn't matter. Like that's your natural inclination to speak. And so be you and, and be content with being you, because I think it's a pretty cool.

[01:27:14] CK: Hmm, thank you for then Dr. Sood, uh, Dr. Sues, um, one of the best philosophers and teachers of the world, right? He said something along the line of those who matter won't care, those who care will matter.

So, uh, absolutely. Thanks for being reminding all of us just to, just to be us. Right. Um, well, where, uh, what would you like to take this conversation next?

[01:27:51] Danny: How do you maintain peace and presence?

[01:27:55] CK: Mm, deep question.[01:28:00]

How do you maintain peace and presence? Let me double-click on peace and presence. What, when you, when you say that. Can you define that further contextualize that, but

[01:28:16] Danny: yeah.

Piece and presence means to me that you're comfortable with whatever happens and you're able to maintain some level of some level of stability when, when the tide shift. And the reason why I asked this question is because in conversations so often the tides will shift and things you'll go in a direction you didn't expect, and you'll go in a different place.

And you're like, wow, we ended up here. I didn't expect that the ability to [01:29:00] maintain peace and presence to me is one of the most important. Attributes of an interviewer, what are the most important attributes of a person? Because inevitably in life, things change and things are unexpected and nine 11 happens and COVID happens and things happen that you don't expect, but can you maintain peace and presence even amongst the CAS and even when times are good and even all of it.

So that's why I asked the question and my thought process.

[01:29:28] CK: Uh, let me see if I can answer that. I'll do a tie back to the beginning of this conversation. We started off talking about the pasta, right? The 10 day meditation retreat with top started talking about meditation. To me, that's a internal process is a one may say violin.

My experience of it was a violent process, right? From, from being the crucible of my own mind for 10 days with no outlet. Right. So it was, it was very jarring, [01:30:00] but I get to, um,

Temper my steel right in that crucible to really find out the truth of who I am and the state, as they say, in a pasta is equanimity and being okay with what is now allowing the waves to wash over me, the thoughts and feelings, emotions, whatever new body sensations. And, and that is a place of being at peace with what is cause the mind we experienced the external world through the mind.

Right? So if we can actually be at peace with what's going on as is to accept whatever occurs within the mind as they are without being pulled into it or trying to stay away from them. And that to me is the great ingredients of [01:31:00] being a peace. If we can do that. Um, the regular then in my mind than when we're truly present when we're not being pulled.

And then we can just stay on what's happening right now and being present to me in the simplest way to answer your question. That's how I answered the question.

[01:31:21] Danny: Yeah. So. To sum it up if we should go and do have a possible retreat.

[01:31:31] CK: Well, I mean, there's no, should just here. People are called to do it.

Whatever we say is like, oh, that sounds really interesting. Great. Go give it a shot. Right? It's going to resonate. I mean, I'm a intense guy. I like to put claim myself to be intense guy. I like intense things. I like things spicy. I like Spartan race. I like, you know, I mean, like, I like that like deep [01:32:00] conversations, you know, I like people to be able to push me to articulate certain things.

I mean, I may say, but not really thinking much about I like that. So it's not everyone's cup of tea and that's okay.

[01:32:16] Danny: Yeah, that that's exactly right. And, and I think, um, now you just outlined a great way to, to build up the peace and presence is like put yourself in uncomfortable situations when quote unquote times are good so that you can maintain that when times are not so good.

And it's like, you can choose suffering when times are good, so that when you inevitably suffer by not your choice, you're better able to handle it.

[01:32:45] CK: That's right. I'm a, I'm a huge fan of this whole idea of hornesis, right? How do we introduce, uh, this comfort based on our own choosing such that we can fine tune that muscle of grit and [01:33:00] resilience and actively choosing joy when, when giving chocolate and vanilla, right.

You know, the joy or suffering at all times. It's interesting. A lot of people think like, oh, if I just figured this out, then I could choose joy. Hmm. Like I that's a total illusion because everything it's multifaceted. So it's always joy and suffering, choose joy and suffering, choose joy and suffering.

Choose what you want to choose at any given moment.

[01:33:37] Danny: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a powerful choice. It's a powerful dichotomy with which to frame the world, even when it seems like you quote unquote should be suffering. Right. Um, I think, uh, like for example, a lot of people during COVID, it's like, you can, you can choose suffering in this moment or you [01:34:00] can choose joy.

A lot of times I'm hesitant to make that proclamation because it's like, I. When COVID was going on, I'm like, wow. Like I get to spend time with my parents. I get to, you know, spend time with my brother. This is pretty joyful for me. So, um, but at the same time I understood that a lot of people were suffering and were right to be suffering.

So, yeah. How was

[01:34:26] CK: your COVID? Yeah, today is day six. As I mentioned earlier, I may not, uh, have my COVID experience. My first COVID experience and it was miserable for the first couple of days and no fever, chill, you know, sword or sworn as everywhere and all that. And then I, I had a Tiffany, I said the, the idea was, if this was it for you, are you happy with what you contributed to the world?[01:35:00]

[01:35:00] Danny: Now that's a powerful question. I'm going to write that.

[01:35:05] CK: And then I realized that for me, I wasn't, I was still holding on to things. I was still waiting for the perfect moment, the perfect research, the perfect whatever to actually help people with. I really wanted to make a course. Right. So I've been sitting on the idea from months and then the, and then giving that idea.

And then, uh, I said to myself, you know what, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to finish my course. So day four and five, I just finished my course. Wow. Yeah. And not to the point it's for whoever is listening to this, the point isn't to show O a C K, how amazing you are. You could do a course, even when you're on.

COVID like, that's not the point. The point is to show. [01:36:00] Anyone who is thinking, oh, I got to wait until my circumstance is perfect. Then I can finally contribute. No, like when there's a, well, there's a way. So if CK could do finish your course while he's recovering from COVID when things are not a hundred percent, imagine what you could do with the perfectly healthy body, mind, heart, and spirit.

Like that's the point? Yeah.

So you're a huge proponent of creating a life that you love using the life force, the gifts and talent that you have, and you actively do a lot of different experiments. You meet a lot of amazing people. Use your podcast as a megaphone to inspire others, right?

A mailing people to build better habits. So what's one thing you would say to someone who aspire to live a similar lifestyle like us. What's one thing you would [01:37:00] say to them to do.

[01:37:03] Danny: One thing is follow joy or follow excitement. Where do you find the most joy? Where do you find excitement in your own day to day?

A lot of times I was following what other people. We're liking because I thought it would be cool to be like that person. And so I spent a lot of time in my youth following this person and trying to be this person, because that was cool or doubt. I remember like a specific time, a specific point in my life when I watched house of cards.

And I was like, wow, it'd be really cool to be a politician. And so I thought about like being a politician for six months at a time, and it might've even coincided with the time that I applied to college because I ended up being a political science major. And I think maybe part of that is watching house of cards right [01:38:00] then.

And so my point is that my life got better when I started falling my own joy, my own curiosity, my own excitement for, wow. I'm really enjoying talking to people on the phone. Maybe I should record these. Oh, wow. I'm really enjoying interviewing, you know, maybe I should keep interviewing. And so. All the good things that have happened to me in life have fought have happened because I've followed joy, followed curiosity, followed excitement, and it's led me down to a path where I'm really content with what I'm doing every day.

But it's only because I had the, the courage to follow that joy.

[01:38:34] CK: Um, Danny just want to take a moment to acknowledge you for how you show up in this conversation authentic. We went wherever, you know, directions that probably you never thought about. Uh, and hopefully that, uh, has fulfill our overall outcome of, you know, creating new and [01:39:00] exciting perspectives from the both of us.

So thank you so much for being that sacred space for people do be as they are, and that, you know, to create a life that they love. So thanks for being here on the warrior with. Well,

[01:39:19] Danny: thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure and, um, I'm really grateful for your deep questions and your insight and your ability to maintain peace and presence throughout this conversation.

[01:39:34] CK: So,

[01:39:35] Danny: yeah, I'm taking a lot of notes here and, um, I'm really grateful for you as an interviewer

[01:39:41] CK: at a person.