190 Kathryn Ficarra: Executive Presence Starts Within

[00:00:00] ck: Welcome to Noble Warrior. My name is CK. This is where I interview entrepreneurs, practitioners about how they move from finite games to infinite games. My guest today is Catherine Ficarra, a former VP in marketing, term purpose driven entrepreneur.

[00:00:16] ck: leadership coach, the author of leadership on purpose. Welcome to noble warrior, Catherine.

[00:00:22] Kathryn: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be here.

[00:00:25] ck: So I want to start off by asking this question that a lot of people, clients included, they really want to move from corporate to purpose driven, whether it's entrepreneurship or lifestyle.

[00:00:42] ck: I'm curious. So you've been through that past. Um, what beliefs or assumptions you had to let go to transition from corporate to purpose driven?

[00:00:54] Kathryn: Yeah, so my story is kind of interesting because You know, I had a very successful career. [00:01:00] I was a VP in three different verticals. I worked in media, I worked in gaming, and then I went into e com and, um, had a very big life, um, beautiful, big home, live in nanny, the whole thing.

[00:01:11] Kathryn: Right. Um, and I was, I felt very unfulfilled and I didn't know why, and I didn't understand that, and I would say that I was operating off of a paradigm through Trying to please other people and, you know, keeping my life looking a certain way, but I, I, and I didn't, at the time, I couldn't articulate the fact that I didn't feel fulfilled.

[00:01:38] Kathryn: I just wasn't totally happy. And I actually recall, I was thinking about this the other day, I remember researching like, is there, I think you'd call it now a life coach, but it didn't really exist years ago, you know? And so I, um, but I was searching for something cause what really was happening was I was misaligned, right?

[00:01:57] Kathryn: I was internally misaligned, but I didn't know what that [00:02:00] meant. So I would say this path, I didn't choose. It kind of chose me. Um, I just got to the point where I just wasn't, I was so unhappy that I basically just walked out of my life. I walked out of my marriage. I walked out of my big, beautiful home.

[00:02:14] Kathryn: And I kind of went into this, gave myself a long time out and had to figure out, you know, what is it that truly I'm really here for? And. I would say it was like a catalyst for my transformation, and I spent a good five years in deep personal growth development, and it got it came really clear to me that I'm supposed to be doing what I'm doing now, right?

[00:02:37] Kathryn: And I think now I like to work with people so that they don't have to get so misaligned that Their soul kind of catapults them and they have to have this big catalyst. I think, you know, I think people can be awakened to the understanding that they're, you know, what their purpose is and how they can integrate that into their life every day.

[00:02:56] Kathryn: Um, without having to go through a big transformation, like I had to, right. But, [00:03:00] um, but yeah, you know, now I feel, so now I'm working with. organizations and

[00:03:06] ck: Before you go on there, yeah, let me just do a quick pause Yeah, and then your story is a beautiful one. Thank you for sharing that It reminds me of a metaphor that people say quite a bit So when the divine, the Creator, God whoever you want to say this, speak to you in whispers first is like the feather and then and then it's a little gentle tap on the shoulder and then it becomes violent You know, two by four whacking on the head.

[00:03:33] ck: And if you still don't pay attention, a freight train is coming. Correct. So, so I'm curious, Catherine, was there a, a, a turning point, a pivotal moment, or was it a little bit drip of signal just coming in stronger and stronger over time?

[00:03:47] Kathryn: Yeah, I think I had a, I think I was in the drips, but I wasn't, I had these drips coming and coming, but I didn't know how to recognize them.

[00:03:58] Kathryn: So I wasn't aware that I [00:04:00] was. being guided in a way that I wasn't, I didn't know was a guidance. And so I think I got to a place where I just couldn't do it anymore. Like I, I just was like, something has to change because I feel so broken inside and I don't know why that is. Like I, I was very, um, yeah, I kind of just, I got, I felt so broken inside and I felt like I couldn't get out of bed, but I didn't understand.

[00:04:24] Kathryn: I couldn't articulate what that was. Right. So looking back on that, you know, had I been more internally aligned, I think I would have been. able to say, Hey, this is Something inside of me is trying to guide me to something different. I just wasn't listening to even my own internal cues and I had so much resistance inside myself.

[00:04:42] Kathryn: I didn't understand what that meant. I didn't even know what that internal resistance meant. It could be, I was operating off of a false belief system. There were all these things that were going on inside me. And, um, yeah, I think I just internally got, it was in so much turmoil that I was like, I give up, I can't do it anymore.

[00:04:58] ck: Perfect. So [00:05:00] you mentioned a keyword queues. One of the things that came to me as you're speaking is where you're a marketer. So you probably have heard this phrase before. Uh, the, the phrase goes in. If you can describe a problem better than your customers can, they automatically assume you have the solution, right?

[00:05:18] ck: So part of the process of the awakening process is you don't feel quite right, but you don't exactly, can't really point your finger to a specific thing. So now that you have some time to think about it. What are some of the cues that you were referring to so that people who may not have the awareness that you have today?

[00:05:37] ck: Be like, oh, yeah, you know, there's I couldn't get out of bed or You know, what are some of the cues?

[00:05:42] Kathryn: Yeah, I think a lot of it is is that feeling like there's something more, but you wouldn't really understand that because you have everything, right? So it's like, but I have a good job and my family's healthy.

[00:05:54] Kathryn: Why do I feel like there's something more? Why am I not satisfied? I'm going, you know, like the, I'm [00:06:00] buying this, I've, I'm going on this vacation. I'm looking forward to all, I have these things to look forward to. I'm not satisfied. It's like an internal, When you're internally misaligned, there's nothing that can satiate you because you have not peeled back that onion to figure out who it is you truly are and what you're really supposed to be doing.

[00:06:18] Kathryn: And I think when you get to that place and you can connect that and bridge that gap to whatever it is that you do every day, and it may be that you stay where you are. It may be that you are, you know, you just found a different way to connect your purpose to your life's work every day, and that doesn't have to change.

[00:06:32] Kathryn: And for some people, you know, it means you. you do shift, you do do something different. Maybe you do create your own, you know, your own platform. It just, you know, it depends on whatever your soul has in store for you. But, um, but I think it's that constant nagging that you're just, there's just like you're not satisfied.

[00:06:49] Kathryn: You're just not happy. And I don't love the word happy because I feel like happy is a choice, but when you tie it to unfulfillment, I think it has a little bit of a depth to it [00:07:00] that, um, That is a little bit more resonant. So it's just, your life isn't resonating with who you truly are on the inside. And you just can't figure that out.

[00:07:08] Kathryn: I think that's the way I would describe it.

[00:07:09] ck: That's so, so, so let's zoom in on the journey that you had to take. You say it took five years to explore deeply what that is. Um, what are some of the things you try experimented that really helped you? Along the way.

[00:07:24] Kathryn: Yeah, I did a lot. I started, um, I started doing a lot of studying under, I, well, I read all of Dr.

[00:07:32] Kathryn: Joe Dispenza's books. I, um, I went to his,

[00:07:35] ck: uh, advanced retreat, so I'm familiar with his

[00:07:38] Kathryn: work. Yeah, advanced retreat. I had dinner with him, actually. Um.

[00:07:40] ck: Amazing.

[00:07:41] Kathryn: Yeah, I was, uh, I manifested that. I, I was part of this. I was able to attend this thing in Santa Barbara. He's amazing. Um, so I would say that's kind of where I actually started was with his work.

[00:07:54] Kathryn: And then I got into, um, a lot of trying to understand the universal [00:08:00] laws and how they guide us on a day to day basis. I worked under, well, I did a lot of studying with Abraham Hicks. I've gone to a bunch of her workshops. Um, um, David Bayer is a big, I'm actually part of his, um, executive coaching group and I'm a big believer in the work that he's done.

[00:08:15] Kathryn: So did a lot of studying under him. Um, I've worked with the purpose group trying to understand how you really understand what your purpose is and how you tie that to your work. So, um, I would say I've done. A lot of different, I mean, most of it's been reading and going to retreats and workshops and really trying to just get clear on, you know, who I am as a person and what my purpose really is to do here.

[00:08:39] Kathryn: And it's interesting because you know, my 20 years in the corporate space, I'm, I liked my job and there were elements of it that I loved, but I can't say that I woke up and I was like, it resonated with me. I don't feel like that. I ever really had that feeling. And I think now I'm like excited. I get excited [00:09:00] about, you know, like I'm, I'm working on the weekends, but it doesn't feel like work, right?

[00:09:04] Kathryn: It's, it's exciting to me. And I'm building something. I'm that resonates with me. I'm building something I'm excited about. And it's a creative aspect. And I, I don't know, I think you get to, when you really peel, peel back that onion and you understand who you truly are and how you can actually help transform other people.

[00:09:20] Kathryn: There's a, There's a fulfillment that comes with that and it's exciting and it's, you know, I, I look at myself today versus who I was back then. And I'm not even the same person. In fact, I had lunch a couple of months ago with my first nanny. She had, she was an au pair that lived with us for five years and she was telling me these stories about You know, a pair of shoes that I asked her to go return and just like some of the things that I did, and I was mortified.

[00:09:52] Kathryn: I was like, wow, like, you know, like I, I just don't even. you know, resonate with that person [00:10:00] anymore at all. So, um, yeah, it's, it's really interesting that just the, you know, the change in that and what you value, right? Like what I value now is so different than apparently what I valued back then. And, and, you know, but I was just looking for ways to satisfy me or just to, you know, to make me, you know, super materialistic thought those were the things that were going to make me feel better.

[00:10:22] Kathryn: And, and I don't, I just don't have the same priority anymore on that. So.

[00:10:27] ck: That's beautiful. We'll dive into a little deeper on what makes you come alive, what enlivens you today in a moment, but I want to dive in deeper in some of these workshops, retreats, seminars that you went to that really helped you because people who are listening to this, they may not have had the privilege to have lunch or dinner with Joseph Spencer.

[00:10:47] ck: So, you know, that's amazing. Real quick, how do you go from, again, your former profession as a marketer, so it's very tangible, very data driven. You know, if it doesn't [00:11:00] exist, it's in quite move the needle from the marketer's point of view. Right. How, so how do you go from someone who is very data driven, you know, uh, materialistic, shall we say to someone who is open to, you know, the esoteric studies of, you know, Abraham Hicks and Joe Dispenza and David Mayers, and then all these different studies.

[00:11:20] ck: How do you like, tell us a little bit about that journey.

[00:11:24] Kathryn: I would say it was the start of COVID and I was. I was working for a startup at the time and I had, um, I had been asked to do an interview on a podcast. And so, uh, this was, this was about over five years ago, but I'd asked him to interview in a podcast and the conversation started to lead to, and I, I knew that I was feeling, I was still getting the sense of not, you know, and the conversation started to lead to what are the things that are really important to you that you are not getting to do now.

[00:11:55] Kathryn: And I started to think about the fact that. You know, here we are [00:12:00] in this place where now, you know, there's a little bit of a gray area between your work life and your home life, right? Because people are working from home and the life worlds feels a little bit different. And, um, I started to have this desire to, and I didn't really know where it came from, but I started to have this desire to have people be seen in a different way.

[00:12:21] Kathryn: Like have people, you know, like we, I would be on these meetings and I would want people to turn off, turn their cameras, their backgrounds off. Like, who are you really? Who are you truly are right? Like come show up as your authentic self. And I started to realize that that was a little bit more important to me than anything else going on.

[00:12:39] Kathryn: And the guy, I don't recall his name, but he said to me on that podcast, he said, you know, you, your world, I'm getting the sense that your world is about to change. And it's not as close as you think, but it's not as far away, but you should brace yourself. And I was like, well, I didn't even know what that meant.

[00:12:56] Kathryn: Right. Like kind of freaked me out. But I think from then I [00:13:00] just started to. All of a sudden get a little bit more aware of, of what the direction I was kind of falling into. And so it made me open, I guess, to a little bit more of, of the spiritual side of life. And I mean, there's lots of little things that kind of happened that got me there, but, um, you know, after that, actually he suggested the book, um, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself.

[00:13:24] Kathryn: And so when, that's how I got into Dr. Joe Dispenza's work and, you know, took myself, which at the time was, probably not. You know, I was usually going on sunny vacations and fabulous places. Instead, I'm like, well, I'm in Denver in the middle of the winter. I'm gonna go and go to this retreat, right? And learn how to meditate.

[00:13:43] Kathryn: I never really meditated before. I didn't understand what it was, right? And that's where I learned how to meditate. And then I met people there that, you know, then showed me I heard about their journeys. And, you know, I just started to really get into this place where I started to connect with myself on a more [00:14:00] authentic level and understood that, wait a second, there's, there's more to this life than that.

[00:14:06] Kathryn: I think I thought before and my, my reactions and my triggers and you know, our, our norm, like there, there are ways for me to really navigate this. It's within my own soul's journey, I guess you could say, to get to a place where I'm supposed to be, because I'm clearly not there right now. And so I know I let myself, I guess, follow it, follow into that.

[00:14:30] Kathryn: And it was very different than where I was. And it was a very lonely process. I would say that I didn't have anybody that was like, let's go to these retreats together or, you know, it was really lonely and really hard. And I had to really take a good look at the things I really believed and the things I thought about myself and how I thought my life should look like versus.

[00:14:48] Kathryn: what it might look like. And, um, and it was, it was painful too. It was a, you know, a process of like, you know, how do I, you know, I [00:15:00] want to live a life of purpose. I want to live. I want to be true, but I'm, I'm stuck. I felt stuck. I felt like I was a prison. I was in prison by my mind. I didn't know how to stop the thoughts.

[00:15:11] Kathryn: And that's a really hard lesson to learn. Like when you truly understand how to get to a, I mean, still struggle with it. Right. But I know it now. I know, like when I start to feel something that doesn't feel right, then I just check, what am I thinking? Where are those, where are those thoughts coming from?

[00:15:26] Kathryn: Are they true? Right? How can I just be an observer of that and then just let this trigger go through and not react to it? It's a, I mean, I think that's something that we have to, it'll be a lifetime for me, but I'm much better at it now, a hundred percent much better. But I think in the past I would have, you know, I would have just reacted to those thoughts and it could take me two weeks of crying on the floor before I could.

[00:15:48] Kathryn: You know, get myself up and be like, okay, no, I feel maybe I feel a little bit better. It's just a very different way of living now, completely different way. And I kind of, I kind of went around circles and into what your question is, but

[00:15:59] ck: no, it's [00:16:00] perfect. It was perfect. I think you elucidate a little bit about this journey of awakening because I think the internet meme is.

[00:16:07] ck: I'm just, you know, awakening as maybe someone in sitting on the devotee tree and no peace looking, but then reality, you can get quite gritty, right? My particular path is the plant medicine. I was got path as much as I meditate and all these other things. So, so I totally understand, you know, sometimes you got to face the dark net, the soul, go through it.

[00:16:29] ck: And in order to have that. Instagram worthy.

[00:16:33] Kathryn: Yeah,

[00:16:34] ck: he's looking because that's the work, right? So you talked about the work. Exactly. That's perfect. Um, what was gonna is gonna say, man, there's a lot of things I can, as I can, I can follow with that. Alright, so you had talked about, I want to alluded to two things that you mentioned.

[00:16:51] ck: One, you say was lonely. Well, it's new, right? It's a new thing. And two, you had also mentioned, you had all the, the [00:17:00] resume, the house, the vacation, the nannies and all these things. So, did you feel like people didn't, for the people around you, do you feel like they didn't understand the quote unquote pain and suffering, the struggle that you were going through?

[00:17:16] ck: Because on paper,

[00:17:17] Kathryn: Yeah.

[00:17:17] ck: Everything like, Hey, you know, why are you complaining? Kind of like that. Did you ever feel that way?

[00:17:22] Kathryn: Yeah, a hundred percent. And, and when I kind of made the decision, you know, to walk out and live in my little, um, house, that looks like a little cottage, you know, I think I, I have an amazing support system of friends here and, you know, even my ex, we are still, you know, good friends and we co parent and I, I lit, I really have.

[00:17:45] Kathryn: Such. I'm so lucky that way. I'm very fortunate that way. But even with that, right, it's your journey is your journey. And so you, you know, you have to go through things that [00:18:00] if someone else doesn't, is not on that same path, they don't understand that pain level. Then you got to figure out how to, I mean, there were days I woke up and I'm like, I just can't do it anymore.

[00:18:08] Kathryn: I just don't want to do this anymore. I'm just in, I just felt very, I was in a lot of pain and there were a lot of things going on. And I, I, but I. I just, I didn't feel like I resonated with anything and I couldn't go back. Like after that startup folded, I couldn't go back to corporate. I just, I just was like, this isn't, this doesn't feel right.

[00:18:26] Kathryn: I'm not, I don't know where my space is. I don't know where I'm supposed to go. I just, my whole life looks different now. And you know, I didn't, I didn't have the understanding of what I was going through, but I knew, I have two boys that are my world and I'm like, I got to keep going. I just got to keep going.

[00:18:41] Kathryn: And so, um, you know, I, I had to cultivate a support, a new support system around me. And that's why I really threw myself into going to a lot of these retreats and so forth to make sure that I made, you know, connections with people who understood that journey and, um, could help me. [00:19:00] I invested in a lot of coaching, a ton of coaching with different, you know, different, people on different paths that could give me more modalities that I could use as an approach.

[00:19:11] Kathryn: And, and that saved me, completely saved me, you know, so, um, and now I, I'm like, wow, I look back even two years ago. I mean, I mean, where I am now versus they're just on a emotional level, on a spiritual level, on a, you know, knowing myself and being excited about what I'm doing every day. It's. You know, I'm thankful that I kept pushing through and I know that I was guided.

[00:19:38] Kathryn: The funny thing too, is I think that it was almost like God, the universe, it was like, I needed a sign to know that I was like, not crazy. And so I see 11, 11, probably twice a day. Right. I see it every morning and I say, and I started like, I started taking a picture of it on my phone. And now like my [00:20:00] phone camera roll has, it just, it's consistent, it's crazy how much I see it.

[00:20:05] Kathryn: And so now when I see it, I'm just like, thank you. Thank you. I know I'm being guided, right? Like I know that, you know, there's a purpose for this. There's, this wasn't all for nothing that, you know, it's, it's, it's worked out. Right. So, you know, I don't know. And I, and I think when I see, when I talk to people who are on Maybe stepping into that, you know, it's like, I just want to help people to be like, no, no, no, you're going to be okay.

[00:20:28] Kathryn: Right? Like, let's, let's get you the right, you know, help and approach. And it's not exactly what I do for work now, but, but I, I think through that, I see where people are starting to fit. struggle with that. I'm not fulfilled. I'm not happy. And it's like, okay, let's get you in the right path so you don't have to go through some huge catalyst.

[00:20:45] Kathryn: And you know, your life falling apart that you have to rebuild again, right? Like, let's get you like before it gets you. Let's get you there. So

[00:20:52] ck: So actually, on that note, let me ask you this question, Catherine, you had to get to a level of pain, [00:21:00] spiritual pain, perhaps for you to take action, right? And this is where the, um, how do I say this?

[00:21:07] ck: The paradox of coaching, because if they don't feel the pain, there's no motivation. There's no motivation. They're not going to do anything. You can't tell them all the right things that they need, but they don't want it because they're not in pain yet. And so, so how do you, now that you have. Better lens.

[00:21:24] ck: Now, now that you've got to the other side, you've seen you, you've, you've, you've seen the signals.

[00:21:29] Kathryn: Yeah.

[00:21:29] ck: How do you go about just even engaging with people around you, you know, like, Hey, you may want to look at those or like, how do you engage that?

[00:21:39] Kathryn: So really what I, what resonated me the most was because when I came through this and I was like, okay, I want to utilize, so I, my whole mission is to normalize personal growth in the work, in the workspace.

[00:21:50] Kathryn: And so. I look back on my career and a lot of my advancement had to do with my ability to connect with other people and really my presence. In fact, when I [00:22:00] was first hired to do my first manager job, I, um, one of the, my colleagues had came to me and said, you know, there was a lot of people up for this role.

[00:22:10] Kathryn: And, you know, I walked into our general manager's office and I said, you know, you had the most executive presence and that's why you got the job. And so executive president now, now that's where my focus is, right. Is I work with people on executive presence. But I do it in a very different way because I truly believe that, you know, it's not, there's a lot of people out there that want to just tack on like, okay, executive presence means I had to have better active listening.

[00:22:36] Kathryn: I need to have empathy. You know, they bandaid this approach. And my approach really is it's a combination of personal growth, You know, there's some therapeutic modalities in there. It's behavioral psychology. It's alter ego integration, right? It's created. It's peeling back the layers of who you are and and curating within you what your signature core leadership style is based on who [00:23:00] you authentically are.

[00:23:00] Kathryn: And then you build back all the things that you that resonate with you. Because Presence is actually something that emanates you from, it emanates from you from within, right? It's an energetic conversation. It's an energetic relationship. So the reason that I love having those conversations is because when people hear that, they go, okay, I want to, I want to have a better executive presence.

[00:23:25] Kathryn: I want to amplify my executive presence. But my program is not like, okay, well we're going to do, it's like we're going to get into your belief systems and we're going to understand like where do you have triggers and resistance and we're going to like break those down and rebuild you back up. So in that process, people find, Oh, I didn't realize that, you know, this self doubt was sabotaging me.

[00:23:47] Kathryn: Right. And this is where, you know, I don't feel so connected in this part of my life. And like, how do I rewrite that narrative? And how do I get to a place where I feel more fulfilled? So it's like, I take a little bit of a [00:24:00] curve curvature approach to get people to really take a different look at, you know, the, the lens in which they approach their life and their work.

[00:24:11] Kathryn: And it brings them to an understanding of more of a personal growth mindset versus just somebody saying, I want to grow. Right. So it's, it's, that's kind of the way I've been, you know, the way I've been approaching it, but it's so resonant with what I believe because I truly believe executive presence is important, but it's, I think it's an inside job, right?

[00:24:32] Kathryn: It starts from within. And then what gets reflected to you are the things that you truly want to see in your life.

[00:24:39] ck: I love that. I mean, ultimately you're meeting them where they're at, where they're interested in promotions or they're interested in advancement. They're interested in proof, you know, where they are there and their social standing within the company.

[00:24:52] ck: And then you give them what they need, which is stuff.

[00:24:56] Kathryn: The center of talent, um, uh, [00:25:00] association stated that 26 percent of You know, executive presence accounts for 26, 26 percent of your advancement opportunities. So it's like, it's, you know, it's definitely something that I think people are very aware of.

[00:25:13] Kathryn: Right. But again, I think they're aware of it in a way that They're band aiding it as opposed to understanding how to like really break that down and curating something that starts from who you truly are. So.

[00:25:26] ck: I totally understand. Now, do you have a tool where they can take an assessment of, Oh, here's how you can quantify, you know, one's, you know, I actually,

[00:25:37] Kathryn: yeah, I have a tool.

[00:25:38] Kathryn: You can text shift to 55444 and I do have a little assessment, but I, um, and the, the framework I utilize is actually called the impact framework that I developed and it's, um, identity alignment. Um, mindset mastery, persona activation, authentic communication, consistent embodiment, and [00:26:00] transformative growth.

[00:26:00] Kathryn: So, I have this container that runs for like 13 weeks, and we go through each one of those things quite, um, in depth. So that when you come out of that, you are, um, You know, at a place where you're like, okay, I just, this was so transformative. I now know I have all the tools that I can now integrate because it's important to be able to say, okay, I'm here.

[00:26:20] Kathryn: I want to go here. What are the steps? How am I going to get there? And so it's a very step by step process, but um, but it does, it's really, it's there for transformation, right? It's not just there to say, okay, do a couple of these things and you know, you know, it'll change how you interact with people.

[00:26:37] Kathryn: It's, you're really changing yourself. And once you can really change yourself and then create your own signature leadership style, you know, like what is your, your core leadership signature? Um, that's what I really want everyone to understand. And that's not just for work, right? This is beyond just going, you know, executive presence is definitely A key buzzword in the corporate space, but your [00:27:00] presence follows you, right?

[00:27:00] Kathryn: It's it's how you parent. It's how you're a friend. It's how you're a spouse. It's who you are, right? It's what and what you who you are speaks louder than anything you ever have to say. So A lot of people though they operate on a um reactive perspective, right? They're just they're reacting to life They're they're not realizing that this is something that you actually have control over You know who who does you want to be what your intention is?

[00:27:25] Kathryn: You know and and Showing up like that on a daily basis. I mean, every morning when I get up, I'm like, okay, what is my intention for today? How am I going to step into, I'm here now. I want to be here. These are the tools I have in my tool belt to get there, but it's like a consistent involving process because we're always evolving.

[00:27:43] ck: So in terms of as a coach, how do you, so they come in wanting career advancement, you know, the next promotion, you know, more opportunity to speak in a way that's. That's really show up as who they are, wherever they go, right? I'm projecting. Let me know if I'm wrong. Is that [00:28:00] accurate?

[00:28:00] Kathryn: You're accurate.

[00:28:01] ck: Okay, perfect.

[00:28:02] ck: So how do you then, what kind of like KPIs or kind of success metrics do you help them track? Because part of transformational is not just linear growth. Oh, yeah, man, here you are, you're going to get this much, but it's part of transformation is the unknown unknowns. Hey, I discover I can actually be better with my kids or with my wife or whoever, right?

[00:28:25] ck: So how do you help them track the meaningful things beyond, you know, career advancement and bonus and so forth?

[00:28:33] Kathryn: So at the beginning, we have like a little wheel, and we look at where are the places in your life that need to have the improvement that you want to see in your life. So a lot of it's going to be career focused, but then we go deeper into that, right?

[00:28:44] Kathryn: So it's like, how are you with your social life? Where are you with your relationship with your spouse or your, you know? You know, you're significant other. Um, or are you looking for a relationship? Like we really go into like you can, you score yourself, like here are the areas where I really want to see the [00:29:00] improvement.

[00:29:00] Kathryn: Right. And so from there, when we get into mindset mastery, then we really break down. Um, we go into like a core, we go into the core beliefs, and then we work through a specific, uh, matrix. that enables you to rewrite the narratives, right? So you can making new decisions and rewriting your belief systems.

[00:29:20] Kathryn: And what, what we do every week too, is we go back to that assessment. And when we have new beliefs that you have to be integrating and there's work to do, right? There's homework that you have to do on a, on a weekly basis. Um, and we, and we recheck where, where we are at that wheel. So then when we go into personal alter ego integration and we're creating our new selves and our new leadership signature, then we go back.

[00:29:41] Kathryn: So on a weekly basis, we want to see a progression on that, um, on that wheel every week. So we're saying, okay, where are we making progress? And it's also good because what happens is, you know, when you're, when you're consulting with people or coaching with people and, They have to do the work, right? You have to, you have to be motivated.

[00:29:59] Kathryn: [00:30:00] And I make that a thing in the very beginning. I have a little, like a checklist where I'm like, you, you sign off on it, basically saying you're going to do the work because I don't, you know, I, I want to work with you if you want to. to experience the change, right? But you, it's, you have to integrate it. So if you're doing that on a consistent basis, by the end of the 13 weeks, you should be able to look at that wheel and where you were, where you were really looking at seeing the change.

[00:30:24] Kathryn: And you should be able to say, yep, I've moved the needle this much on these top areas that I wanted to. And this, and now you have to figure out that transformative growth. What is the game plan to maintain it? That's a tricky thing, right? You can go through this and you're like, Oh, this was so amazing.

[00:30:38] Kathryn: And, but then what happens? It's like going to a retreat, you get so motivated. You're so excited. You're like, that was so incredible. It's like, well, now I come home and I'm back in my life now. What, you know, like what's my new routine? What does it look like? How do I stay motivated? So what I like about the container too, that I'm building is that.

[00:30:56] Kathryn: You know, I meet with everybody on a weekly basis and then I have open office [00:31:00] hours so you can come in and just ask questions. But then there's like a private Facebook group. So everyone's networking with each other and everyone's on the same journey. So it's like get to know each other and then that's your support system.

[00:31:09] Kathryn: So, you know, it's, it's really important to have other people that you can lean on that are going through this with you that are like, Hey, you know, I didn't realize that I was self sabotaging myself in this area and you know, I'm not showing up for myself here and I'm seeing it. affecting my work. I'm seeing it being reflected back to me.

[00:31:24] Kathryn: Like once you really understand how this thing works and then you can start identifying it like, okay, this is happening for me, not to me. And that's a big shift for people is when you start to really see like, okay, this, these things, this is not to me, it's for me. So what do I need to take from this and how do I need to shift what I'm thinking about?

[00:31:43] Kathryn: To make this seem to make this something that is actually more congruent to what my belief system is.

[00:31:48] ck: So, so Catherine, it reminds me of, uh, my experience with Dr. Joe. He is a really, really good teacher. He can articulate the esoteric with [00:32:00] scientific language as he calls it. Uh, what is it? Science is the language of the modern mystics or something like that.

[00:32:06] ck: Right. And, and what I found is a lot of people I meet, you know, they love the retreat experience. But then very soon after the retreat is they go back to their busy lives, you know, with their responsibility as executives, CEOs, you know, parents and friends, and they neglect their practice. And with things like this, of course, if you don't practice, you don't get the results.

[00:32:32] ck: If you practice, you get the results. You get better and better, right? So how do you make sure that you're giving them everything you know, all the lessons, all the practices, all the best practices, the community, etc. What do you do when they still don't understand? Like they know intellectually, but they don't practice.

[00:32:52] Kathryn: Yeah. So I think that's where you have to come up with your own long term game plan. So the last, really the last week is about, [00:33:00] okay, what does your day look like now? You know, what are the tools and the new routines you're going to create for yourself? And you have, You have to be part of that decision too, but there has to be a long term plan that you feel like is on a piece of paper that you can follow, because if you don't actually have it spelled out like that, then you won't follow it, right?

[00:33:20] Kathryn: That's what I have found. So it's getting very specific, like, okay, so in the morning, and some people like to meditate in the morning, supposedly that's the best time from a theta wave perspective. I actually don't. I like to do it after my kids leave. Like, I just, I get up, I have my coffee, I have to do, I just.

[00:33:35] Kathryn: It's just not the time where I feel like I want to for whatever reason, but I have a very specific routine that I follow right now. And, and it, what

[00:33:43] ck: is your routine? Let's get into that.

[00:33:46] Kathryn: So I have a funny routine. I love having coffee in bed. I think it's like one of life's luxuries, right? So I got this tiny little Keurig and I put it next to my bed and I have it all set up.

[00:33:57] Kathryn: So as soon as I wake up, I hit the button, [00:34:00] and I just have one cup of coffee in bed, and I will not meditate, but I will listen to, um, I will listen to a teaching, so I'll give myself like 20 minutes, so it's either gonna be um, an energetic embodiment teaching, or it's gonna be something on mindset, or it's going to be something that's gonna help me shift or continue my intention for the day.

[00:34:19] Kathryn: And then I write down what my intention is for that day. So then I just say, okay, so my intention is to have clarity around X, Y, and Z. My, if I have a coaching session, it's, my intention is to create a breakthrough for this person. My intention is, you know, whatever it is, right? It's usually about something or somebody else, a way to create transformation.

[00:34:36] Kathryn: Right. Um, and then that's my first 20 minutes. And then I go on with my day or I get the kids out the door and then I'll do like. early, like mid morning, I'll do like a 30, 45 minute meditation. Um, and then at night, I'm pretty particular about like where my mindset is when I'm going to bed. So I, I do believe a lot in like subliminals.

[00:34:59] Kathryn: So I [00:35:00] do play those quite, I, I do a lot of those, um, or I'll fall asleep to something like it's really, um, it's really intentional. I think what I try to, to try to create in my day is. And intention and presence at every moment. You know, there was a time where I was like, I just want to be out of this. Like, I want to be out of this space or I want to, I can't wait to do it.

[00:35:20] Kathryn: And now I know always look forward looking. And now I'm like, I'm enjoying the journey at every moment in every day. And I feel like, and the coffee thing is, sounds really silly, but it really does let me get to a place where I'm like, I love this. Like, I'm so happy. I'm just enjoying this moment because right now.

[00:35:40] Kathryn: It just feels really perfect. And I love this bedroom. It's got everything I want. And, you know, it's like, I'm thankful for this bed. And I just like, I just have to, I'm trying to cultivate gratitude, but really authentically, and you know, my, my true self. My 16 year old was late for school the other day and I was like, Chase, I was yelling at him and [00:36:00] he said, what mom?

[00:36:01] Kathryn: And I heard his little voice and I was trying to make his lunch or whatever. And in that moment I was like, I only have, you know, two more years of what mom, you know? And then that voice

[00:36:11] ck: and

[00:36:14] Kathryn: like, it just like, I just stopped and I was like, I just appreciated it. And I've never been able to do that before because I was always like somewhere else in my head.

[00:36:22] Kathryn: I was always just never in the present moment. So, you know, I, I really tried to focus on that. And I'm not perfect at it. You know, you get, you get in a place where, but you know what I do have now is I have a, an app on my phone called the mindfulness bell and it rings like every 20 minutes. And. I got to change the ring because I'm getting too used to it, but when I hear it, it's like, okay, where am I right now?

[00:36:44] Kathryn: Like where's my thought? Where am I at? Where am I at in my head? You know, where's my energy? Do I have like triggers going on? I need to listen to, or do I feel resistance? Like I'm really clear about that, especially how it feels in my body. And I mean, I could get, I could sit down and start [00:37:00] to write an email to a client, but if I don't feel, if I feel resistance or anything weird inside me, I'll just be like, nope, I'm not going to do it right now.

[00:37:06] Kathryn: Cause there's something in me that's not like I need to process or whatever in order to like be totally present and be able to, you know, offer somebody some sort of transformation. I'm just really in tune with that. So that was a big learn. That was something that really came through for me and, um, coming through all of this and this personal growth was like really being in tune with, with what was going on inside of me and how it would impact somebody.

[00:37:31] Kathryn: And that's that energetic, right? It's like what's happening here could impact somebody else without me even. talking to them. So I'm just want to be really, you know, intentional about, about understanding those things.

[00:37:43] ck: I love that turn, turning every moment into a gift.

[00:37:47] Kathryn: Yeah.

[00:37:48] ck: Yeah.

[00:37:49] Kathryn: It's not easy, but I try.

[00:37:52] ck: I mean, to, to me being more aware, cause that's one of your key words, where you're teaching people to be more aware.

[00:37:59] ck: [00:38:00] Uh, the game of awareness is infinite. It's, it's the horizon, right? We aim at it, but we never quote unquote arrive. We just keep going. So, you know, I, I love that you're really paying attention to the depth of the present moment.

[00:38:14] Kathryn: Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:38:15] ck: Yeah,

[00:38:16] Kathryn: and you know, I think there's a lot of people, like I worked with the Starbucks leadership team and those people, they, people are seeking that.

[00:38:22] Kathryn: I think you find people now that are like, You know, I want something more like I don't want to change my life I want to you know, I want to I want to make sure that when I show up every day I'm effective and I'm you know showing up as my best self and you know They're looking for I feel like it's more common now that people are really looking for What does transformation truly look like and they're open to it being you know coming from within and you know Realizing it without I think that's I think that's more and more common than it ever was when I was, you know You Am I normal in my regular corporate days?

[00:38:56] ck: I mean, if you think about it, I think the awareness really is the [00:39:00] start of everything. If I want more joy, if I want more performance, if I want better relationships, guess what? Where, where do we start? We start with awareness. You can't, and it's one of those multipliers. If you can truly now pay more attention instead of 60 bits of information, you can take in 120.

[00:39:19] ck: All of a sudden the present moment now becomes a lot richer, a lot more dynamic versus just, oh, this is boring. I'm bored. How do I, you know, fill the space with some stuff?

[00:39:31] Kathryn: Yeah. And once you're grateful for the present moment, then you get more of that, right? So if you want. You know, better relationships.

[00:39:37] Kathryn: Look at the relationships you have now and be grateful for them, right? Find, find the joy in that. And that's, that's what, that's what you attract, right? You find what it is that you, you know, you love in your life. You want more of that? Then be thankful for that. In this present moment, you will get more of that.

[00:39:53] Kathryn: That's part of the law of. You know, attraction, right? But it has to come from like a really authentic place inside [00:40:00] yourself.

[00:40:00] ck: So on that note, Catherine, let me ask you this. Do you teach your corporate clients about some of these spiritual principles, a lot of attraction, you know, Abraham Hicks, any of these things in your

[00:40:15] Kathryn: dependence?

[00:40:15] Kathryn: Like I am very transparent about like where I've been on my journey, but I keep it pretty transactional from the perspective of like, I, The tools that I give people are tools that you could understand the spiritual side of life or having an awakening or not, right? They're just, they're stand, they're very, um, applicable, I think, to any person.

[00:40:38] Kathryn: Um, I don't really go that deep into, I'm not an expert on like law of attraction or anything like that. I just understand it from my perspective and I can, I'll give stories and I will tell, you know, like I'll give different perspectives, but I don't, I wouldn't say it's part of my, my core teachings.

[00:40:56] Kathryn: They're just there. I want them, my teachings to really be [00:41:00] digestible to any person. Right. But. But what happens is that when you really start to understand that thoughts are things, right? And you look at the, the cybernetic. Wait, say that

[00:41:10] ck: slower. I think it's, it's worthy of double clicking. Say that phrase one more time.

[00:41:14] Kathryn: That thoughts are things, they become things, right? So if you look at a belief system, you're, whatever it is that you believe, you, your thoughts come from what that belief system is, right? So then those thoughts are going to create feelings. So those feelings from those thoughts, those feelings are embodying that belief system, right?

[00:41:32] Kathryn: And then from those feelings, you're going to take action. And then that action is going to produce a result that's congruent with the original belief system. So let me give you an example. I am, um, I worked with somebody who had a issue with the fact that they felt like every time they were trying, they were trying to work on this project and every email they sent Nobody was listening to them.

[00:41:58] Kathryn: You know, they felt like they were totally [00:42:00] being overlooked and so forth. So this was the belief system that was created, right? So from that belief system, she had a lot of thoughts about this email that came through that she was going to respond to and she's like, well, no one's gonna listen to me anyway.

[00:42:11] Kathryn: I don't even know why I'm getting this email. So she's starting to embody this feeling because she's feeling so She's feeling frustrated about this. So the action she takes is a response to these thoughts and these feelings, which is a defensive action Right, and it was not probably one that you would send if you were in a clear aware place of okay I'm gonna I'm gonna approach this from a much more space of clarity where you're operating off of your thoughts You're parasympathetic nervous system where you're, you're, you're genius and you're in clear, in a clear head space, you're, instead you're on your sympathetic nervous system which is your fight or flight and you're, you know, you're stressed and, um, you know, you're in a primal state of being, right?

[00:42:49] Kathryn: So that's the response, so she sends out an email. And the email gets a terrible response. So what happens is that result is now congruent with her original belief system, which is [00:43:00] that, which is that she's being passed over and that whatever she says doesn't matter, right? That's a like small example. But those that loop is the loop that when you understand the loop, because if you, if you see where your belief systems are and then you can go and say, okay, now this loop makes sense to me because my actions, are producing a beli or just congruent with the original belief system I have.

[00:43:20] Kathryn: So how do we stop the loop and get and create a new belief system that's going to be something that I curate and that's something that's actually going to work for me? So that those thoughts that eventually become things are things I actually want to see in my life, if that makes sense. Like I, I'm to the place now where with my thoughts, I'm like, if I don't want to see it in my front of me, I'm not going to let it in my head.

[00:43:42] Kathryn: Like I, yeah, I've become that much of a strict ninja with my head because I, I've seen it. I've seen what I've manifested in my life based on my thought process that I don't, and I didn't know that at the time. I had no idea. And now I'm like, Nope, Nope. I don't want to see that in my living room. I don't want to see it in my, in my world, [00:44:00] in my life coming out of my head.

[00:44:02] ck: So I love that. Uh, and I love the discipline, you know, the warrior spirit, you know, you have about it.

[00:44:08] Kathryn: Yeah.

[00:44:09] ck: Right. So I love that. Yeah. That's cool. All right. So let's, let's move forward to the reinforcement. You call it the alter ego. Um, Joe Dispenza calls it, you know, neurons wiring together, fire together.

[00:44:24] ck: It's similar ideas where you can reinforce new patterns, whether it's, uh, behavioral or verbal or believe is a patterns. So, What are your teachings around helping people reinforce a new alter ego, a new neuron pattern, firing pattern?

[00:44:41] Kathryn: I have.

[00:44:42] ck: Yeah.

[00:44:42] Kathryn: I think it's all about resonance. So when we do the process on alter ego integration, um, it's, It's finding what feels true to you.

[00:44:55] Kathryn: So, and there's a lot of extreme examples out there. So let's take Beyonce, right? [00:45:00] She grew up in a, um, in a very strict Christian household and she was a, um, a singer for the choir. right? She sang in the choir. Well, then when she started to get into more mainstream music and they had asked her to go up and do all these moves and stuff that she just didn't feel resonated with her at all.

[00:45:17] Kathryn: She developed her alter ego, which is Sasha fierce. And she even talks till this day. She'll say Sasha gets up there to do things that Beyonce could never do. She steps into a new person, but when she curated this Sasha Fierce character She found pieces of her that felt like her they resonated with her right and she creates this whole she create a whole new alter Ego, there are some and like Kobe Bryant did that with Black Mamba, right?

[00:45:42] Kathryn: And but there are some I think there's there's that extreme, you know example, and then there's the It depends on who you are, right? And it's a very individual process, but you know, you could find leadership qualities or just life qualities that you see in other people that then you, you also feel [00:46:00] connected to.

[00:46:01] Kathryn: So you have to, you got to find something that really resonates and feels like you, that you could step into. And that's a whole process, but you step into these things that, and you bridge the gap between who you are and who you want to be. And you create these really specific traits that you step into, but, and you do it in a way that feels natural and normal.

[00:46:21] Kathryn: And when you do that on a daily basis, you start to become that. And when you become that, right, that's when everything changes, that's when the game changes. And so that's actually the most fun and exciting part, I think, is, you know, really being able to consciously step into that and feeling it. And when you start to embody it from an energetic perspective, you know, you become it.

[00:46:43] Kathryn: And then that's how, that's really how you can, you can really curate and change and be whatever it is you want to be, but it has to be resonant with you and it has to just be an amplification of who you truly already are. We're just building on top of that.

[00:46:56] ck: So, let me do a quick recap. What you're saying is [00:47:00] not, let me artificially construct this as nothing, like, like to say, CKLIN is going to embody Sasha Fierce.

[00:47:06] ck: Like, it's totally random, has nothing to do with CKLIN at all. So, what you're saying is something that's, that you're invoking an aspect of who you are. You bring that specific aspect out, and then you're amplifying that further, yeah?

[00:47:19] Kathryn: Right. Yeah, your subconscious mind will reject that. You'll never resonate with being Sasha Fierce, right?

[00:47:24] Kathryn: Like it just won't and neither would I actually. It doesn't feel natural or normal to me. Um, but there are some people that I have taken, like when I've done this work for myself, like I took a lot of aspects of Oprah that really resonate with me. You know, I don't look like Oprah. I don't sound like Oprah, but there are pieces of her, um, Approach in in her mindset that do resonate with me And so when I got really specific as to what those were

[00:47:52] ck: you might go into like the the specific aspect and how you're implementing Yeah, how are you [00:48:00] reinforcing that within yourself?

[00:48:00] Kathryn: Yeah, so When she talks to people, Oprah looks for, you know, she looks for the transformative aspects in people and she looks for, um, she looks for the ways like, and, and how, whatever they're saying is going to help someone else. So when I started my podcast and I sat down in that chair and I was like, I can't believe I'm doing this.

[00:48:23] Kathryn: And, you know, I was, I was, you know, a little bit nervous about it. And I, you know, I take that aspect of her and I'm like, no, I, I I believe that I want to see the transformative aspect of what this person is talking about. And I just take, I just integrate it energetically into me. And my conversations, when I sit in those chairs are exactly that, you know, like I'm able to get to a place where I feel so connected to it, but I feel connected to it because I work on it every day.

[00:48:52] Kathryn: And I'm like, where, how am I integrating this on a day to day basis when I'm talking to people? But when I sit in the chair, I feel, it feels very natural to me to say, [00:49:00] You know, like tell me how you finding your sole purpose is now transforming other people. What does that look like? How does that feel to you?

[00:49:06] Kathryn: Like I can have those authentic, true conversations because I've looked at aspects of people that are successful and I've wanted to bridge the gap and have them be part of me. But again, it's like a, it's a process you do, right? It's like an integration process that you do. You got to be really specific about it.

[00:49:22] Kathryn: And again, it has to resonate with you.

[00:49:25] ck: It's

[00:49:25] Kathryn: like when we work on. The decision matrix about, you know, transforming, limiting beliefs, your mind is like its own SEO engine. So when you give it, when you set it on the path that you want it to go on, as opposed to letting it just do whatever it wants to do, it can be very powerful for you.

[00:49:41] Kathryn: So we talk a lot about, you know, um, for example, let's go back to the woman who had the issue with the email. Um, and I said to her, I'm like, give me an example. She's like, this happens every time. This happens every time. I'm like, okay, every time is a grand exaggeration, but give me an example when it didn't happen.

[00:49:56] Kathryn: Like, where were you really effective when you were communicating [00:50:00] on a project like this, right? And so we took a little time and like peeled back that onion and said, okay, here's where you were really effective. What was it about that, that time, like what, what were the specifics around that? And then let's rewrite why you were so effective there.

[00:50:15] Kathryn: And let's remember, like we're going to make a new decision that you're effective, right? So when you make a new decision, beliefs are just decisions. That's all they are. They're just. You just have to decide, but your brain needs evidence, right? It needs evidence of where it's already seen that in order for you to flip that narrative where you're not going to self sabotage yourself.

[00:50:34] Kathryn: So it's, it's when you find the new evidence and you consistently implement that and you read that and you believe that, then you can start changing that belief system. You'll start changing the way that you thought about something. Cause you're like, no, no, no, I've been successful here before. So this belief right here is not true.

[00:50:51] Kathryn: It just happened to be in this situation, but it's not true for me. So then you can take a step back and say, no, I'm going to make a different decision. That I am effective here and this [00:51:00] is coming from a place of clarity, again, utilizing your parasympathetic nervous system, I can make a different, I'm going to react to this and I'm going to respond to this, not react to this and have a different outcome that's congruent with my new belief system.

[00:51:12] ck: I love that. Well, I definitely feel a little bit of Oprah when you're speaking.

[00:51:20] ck: It's working.

[00:51:21] Kathryn: Yeah.

[00:51:25] ck: So, so let me ask you a quick question there. Do you use any specific mechanisms as a way to help them reinforce? Cause you mentioned for your personal practice, you said liminal, uh, things you, uh, have them do maybe affirmations, maybe visualizations, or as a way to. Um, practice. Yeah.

[00:51:43] ck: Obviously the end goal is moment to moment awareness. So as she's sending out emails, Hey, remember this, but we don't get to that until you have the intentional practices, right? Facing the discomfort, the unfamiliarity, [00:52:00] the resistance perhaps. So do you tell them to do a morning practice or afternoon practice or evening practice using specific modalities to help them drive in those, um, neural connections?

[00:52:12] Kathryn: Yeah, I love visualization. I'm a big believer in that. And I do because I think it does help you paint a picture. If you're not able to articulate it in a different way, you can, you can imagine it. You know, we all have imagination, so you can imagine what that might look like for you. And so, um, we do do that work in the beginning affirmations.

[00:52:31] Kathryn: I handle a little bit differently than other people. Uh, and that is because You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of teachings out there that if you just say these affirmations then, you know, this is what's, you're going to manifest, this is what's going to be true for you. You manifest who you are, not what you want, right?

[00:52:48] Kathryn: You're manifesting from a place of, and it's not some secret boo boo word, you know, manifestation is just an, you know, it's just a, it's just an externalized, [00:53:00] physical object that you had, you know, thought you wanted or you had thought about and, you know, now it's in your presence, but it's not based on you wanting and begging.

[00:53:09] Kathryn: But so when people talk about affirmations and they're like, oh, well, I'm rich. I'm rich. I'm rich, you know, from a financial perspective. It's like you just keep telling yourself that and the money's gonna show up and it just doesn't work that way. But what does work with affirmations is if you say, Yes, I'm really wealthy, I'm really wealthy, and your subconscious mind's gonna reject it because it doesn't believe that it's true.

[00:53:29] Kathryn: If you feel a trigger in there, then you know you have a belief system that's not congruent. Right with where you, what you want in your life. So I use it really for triggers. So it's like, okay, if you tell yourself, you know, something that you want, how does it feel? If it doesn't feel natural to you, then there's something, you have a resistance to it, then that's a belief system we need to work on.

[00:53:48] Kathryn: So it's like, I kind of flipped it. I flipped.

[00:53:50] ck: Uh, I like it about

[00:53:51] Kathryn: that one.

[00:53:52] ck: That's a really unique way of using affirmation that I, it's something, you know what, this is very innovative. I've never heard anyone said that before.

[00:53:58] Kathryn: I know it's different, right.

[00:53:59] ck: I [00:54:00] like it. No, I, I, and that's. Very insightful, by the way, because you're surfacing the subconscious belief, you know, the resistance, the inner resistance.

[00:54:09] ck: I love that. That's amazing. Yeah, your inner

[00:54:12] Kathryn: resistance, that's, it's your guide. It's your inner guidance, right? It's when you feel that resistance, it's like, okay, what is this telling me? What, what do I need to understand about this? Like, what about myself that I'm feeling this? And when you really learn to, when you learn to use your emotions as like not just a, it's like a weapon in the sense that you're like, oh, like I, it's, this is, this is a, a weapon in a good way from the perspective of like, this is a, I'm armed with this, it's knowledge, it's information, it's power, it's like, this doesn't feel good to me, so I know that there's something inside me that doesn't feel right, I'm going to change it, I'm going to change it, and I'm going to change myself, and that's, that's how transformation happens.

[00:54:53] Kathryn: And that's what I think is so powerful about the human body is all the tools that it really gives you to, to create change and do [00:55:00] something better and make it something that you truly want.

[00:55:03] ck: I love that, Catherine. Um, is there any question that you think I should be asking, but I didn't ask you, I know that we cover a lot of ground from your origin story to, you know, finding the cues to the modalities you experience to, uh, the aliveness that you feel today to your specific coaching framework.

[00:55:24] ck: Other things that you think I should be asking that I didn't ask

[00:55:26] Kathryn: you? That's a good question. I asked my guest that too. What should, what, what am I not asking you? Um,

[00:55:37] Kathryn: no, I think that, I think that, you know, and I know you, You know, you're, um, the guests that you have on or, you know, have a very, I love your, you know, your focus and your niche. So your, your viewers are used to listening to, you know, people who've been down some sort of transform, transformative path. Um, I would just say, [00:56:00] I would just say, I think it would, it's good for people who are listening to understand that, you know, you're listening, you ran into these things on purpose.

[00:56:12] Kathryn: Right? Everything's on purpose, and there's no accidents in life. And so, you know, if there's something that resonates or triggers or whatever to anybody listening, then go deep, you know, dive deep into trying to figure out what that is for you. Right? And, like, it may be time for you to, like, take a different approach.

[00:56:32] Kathryn: Approach of your life or take a different perspective. And, you know, and there's so much content on YouTube. There's so much, there's so many, you know, free resources out there that you that can really help you down a path. But, you know, I don't know, listen to the signs, lean into them. Don't be afraid of them, follow them.

[00:56:50] Kathryn: And just remember that, you know, your triggers and your resistance or your friends, be friends with them, let them come and let them change you.

[00:56:58] ck: So, Catherine, on that note, I do want [00:57:00] to ask you a follow up question there.

[00:57:01] Kathryn: Yeah.

[00:57:03] ck: So, speaking to the younger Catherine, because, you know, she was the easy target, so to speak, because you knew her very well, I mean, pretty quickly, right?

[00:57:12] ck: So, at that time, she still has, you know, a great resume, you know, a lot of money in the bank, relationship, kids, friends, beautiful house, all of these. And how do you support her? How do you guide her so that she finds the courage and the willingness? to take that leap, even though all her external things are pointing to comfort.

[00:57:37] ck: Does that make sense?

[00:57:38] Kathryn: Yes, it does.

[00:57:38] ck: Yeah.

[00:57:39] Kathryn: Um, I would say, so the term go with the flow is such an interesting, um, term because I think a lot of people think it means go with what everybody else is doing. That's the flow of what, you know, what people are doing, but the term, what it really means is is go with your internal compass of what feels like [00:58:00] flow to you.

[00:58:00] Kathryn: So lean into, get really clear on where you feel lit up, right? Where do you feel the most joy? Where do you feel like you're, what are you passionate about? Like, understand that, you know, and then lean into that and, and follow that. Because when you follow that joy, that is your true essence talking to you and showing you what you're, you truly are.

[00:58:25] Kathryn: And a lot of times when you follow that, it will lead to roads that will, you know, you're here not to, you're here to have an amazing life. You're here to create, you're here to, you're not here to suffer. You're not here to make everybody else happy. You're here to have, to, to be fulfilled. I really believe that.

[00:58:43] Kathryn: And I think the way to get to that Is to know yourself enough and to lean into the things that light you up and let those doors open. And I think if I had to not be afraid of what those doors might be, you know, when I was, when I realized that this is the job, this is the career I [00:59:00] was going to, or that, that I was going to open up my own consulting company and do this, I was really scared of it.

[00:59:04] Kathryn: Cause I'm like, I don't want to be an entrepreneur. That was never what my, that was never what I thought I was going to do. I just didn't see that happening for me. Um, I was driving my son to school and I was at a light coming back and I heard the voice and I don't get a ton of download. A lot of people get like these downloads.

[00:59:21] Kathryn: I don't get a ton of that. But I heard it really clear like this is what you're meant to do and at that moment talk about 1111 all the cars around me and it was 1111 and everything was a one around me all over and it happened for like 30 seconds and I sat there and I was like, oh my god Like I was just like I was really taken back and I was like Okay, I guess this is the path and you know, I was because I was fighting myself.

[00:59:47] Kathryn: I was like, I don't want to do this I don't want to go into consulting. I don't even know where to start. I don't know how to do this This is a couple years ago. I don't know where to start I don't know how to how I'm gonna do this and you know, then that happened and I was like, okay I guess that's my answer right but you know, [01:00:00] like And I started, I love it though.

[01:00:02] Kathryn: I just didn't know where to start, but like, I think when you fall, you follow what your flow is and what you're passionate about, you know, the, the, you don't need to worry about the, how, the, how will come just, just follow what you, what brings you joy. And I think the doors will open up from there.

[01:00:16] ck: All right, Catherine, last question before I acknowledge you, how do you define infinite game and what's your infinite game?

[01:00:24] Kathryn: How do I find what say that again? You kind of, how do

[01:00:26] ck: you, how do you define infinite games? And then what's your infinite game?

[01:00:31] Kathryn: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's, you know, I think it's helping other people.

[01:00:35] Kathryn: I think it's, it's realizing that we're here as a collective to help other people. I just, I, I think that's, I think when you do that, it comes back to you. I think you do it on a day to day basis. Imagine if the world, If, if this is what we were taught in school, imagine if these kids understood that, you know, the feelings that they feel so strongly, if they knew how to handle their emotions, if [01:01:00] they were taught how to, you know, how to be more aware and how, you know, and they would grow up to be adults and we would have such a more of a peaceful environment, right?

[01:01:09] Kathryn: If they knew that they were here and the thing is, is to really help the collective. You know, we would live in such a different world. And so, you know, I don't know, I just try and do my part on that on a day to day basis and teach it as best I can.

[01:01:22] ck: Catherine, let me take a moment to acknowledge you. Thank you so much for sharing generously about your origin story, you know, your transformation from corporate to a purpose driven, uh, entrepreneur and, and being a, uh, executive presence coach for everyone around you and bring really bring, um, all of the distinctions that you learn and sharing so generously here on Noble Warrior.

[01:01:49] ck: I really appreciate our conversation.

[01:01:51] Kathryn: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and I really appreciate our time.