193 Jeff Gomez: The Secret Storytelling Framework Behind Iconic Stories We Love

[00:00:00] ck: Thank you. Um, I'm gonna make sure to add that so that way people know how to follow you. Uh, is there any, sometimes in the spirit of Kaizen, everlasting improvement, is there anything that I can, you know, do or to amplify, to draw out Jeff's story, wisdom, insights, things that you, you know, to move it from a 10 to 11?

[00:00:28] Jeff: I, I, I've listened to many of your, your, uh, episodes. Uh, uh, CK This was an 11.

[00:00:36] ck: I'm not, I'm actually, I'm not fishing for a compliment.

[00:00:39] Jeff: No, no. no. I, I, I, I, I don't have, uh, any, any criticism, uh, this time out. Uh, you, you got it. You nailed it.

[00:00:47] ck: Oh, thank you. Appreciate it. Um, anyone else you think is suitable to discuss, you know, these type of life's questions on [00:01:00] Nobel Warrior?

[00:01:01] Jeff: Oh, well. Um, I'll, I'll have to, to think about that, um, and, uh, and, and send you some recommendations. That'd be great to be able to do that.

[00:01:09] ck: Yeah, I, I would really appreciate it. Um,

[00:01:12] ck: the, and I'll actually make, if, if there are people who you have alluded to on the podcast this time people is trying to reconcile, um, indigenous sovereignty problem. Right. Or even bullying, you know, uh, that people that you see are doing really positive things, really innovative things around those really complex issues.

[00:01:38] ck: Right. To your earlier point, social media, bullying, these type of things. Um, if you know anyone who is doing that, do that well, you know, from your perspective, I'll definitely, you know, bring them up to the, to the, to the queue.

[00:01:54] Jeff: Oh, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll think about that. Yes. That'd be cool.

[00:01:57] ck: All right. Cool, man. Well, [00:02:00] I'm glad you're doing well, Jeff. Thank you so much. Let me do a little bit of, uh, editing and I'll get it out.

[00:02:06] Jeff: Fantastic.

[00:02:07] ck: I, this is a gentle reminder when we end this. Please don't close the tab immediately, just allow you to upload. Otherwise, I won't be able to get your beautiful face.

[00:02:19] Jeff: Dude, that that was, um, I, I've heard a lot of your conversations. You were awesome. Th this time, you know, it, there, there was, uh, you know, the, the discussions are very, sometimes feel, uh, a little casual,

[00:02:35] Jeff: you know, and it's a lot of back and forth and, and so forth. Uh, and I like, you know, uh, uh, getting to the meat of the, the, the deal.

[00:02:44] Jeff: This time you were all business. You were like ba, ba, ba, you know, delivering some, some, uh, pretty challenging, uh, uh, questions and, and so

[00:02:55] ck: So you like that, that I, I pushed, I pushed back. I didn't

[00:02:59] Jeff: Well, [00:03:00] this is the way I, what, what I enjoy.

[00:03:02] Jeff: So, so, uh, you know, you, you adapt

[00:03:07] ck: Oh, good.

[00:03:08] Jeff: my energy.

[00:03:08] ck: that, all that ayahuasca I drank during the conference, you know? Have you ever, by the way, have you ever had an ayahuasca experience? Is that something that.

[00:03:18] Jeff: uh, it, it's something that I had given a lot of consideration to, but never, uh, uh, uh, I, I, I don't do drugs in, in general except for pot now and then, but, um, but the, um, uh, stuff that really is, um, you know, mind altering. Um, I, I, I had a concern about simply because the, the, uh, my obsessive compulsive disorder, uh, you know, has been so virulent, you know, like super, super, uh, uh, strong and the.

[00:03:51] Jeff: Uh, the concern is, you know, if, if I'm with somebody who's wonderful and responsible and can talk me [00:04:00] through those kinds of issues, under that level of influence, fantastic. But I haven't come across someone that I, I, I trusted at that level, um, uh, in, in order to, to take it on.

[00:04:13] Jeff: You know, it.

[00:04:13] Jeff: it, really that, that stuff and, and the, the, the trauma issues, um, are, are extremely deep and yet close to the surface for me. Um, and, um, and so, you know, I wanna be careful.

[00:04:29] ck: I totally respect that and understand it. Um, it is not something to toy with your brain, obviously.

[00:04:36] Jeff: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:04:36] ck: Uh, can I just offer a little bit of learnings that I have in the Okay, great. I've been drinking the medicine for seven years, 200 plus ceremonies, so I have learned a few things along the way. Okay.

[00:04:52] Jeff: Uh

[00:04:53] ck: One of the things I wish people would've told me, uh, ceremony one, which I went into it with a [00:05:00] lot of trepidation, right?

[00:05:01] ck: Because I just, to your point, never done any drugs, don't drink alcohol, don't really like, believe in any of these things. I actually had a lot of judgment

[00:05:11] Jeff: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:11] ck: I step into this realm, is this very key point I wanna offer. Um, you don't have to have heroic doses. You can drink very little cups just to dip your toe in the water.

[00:05:28] Jeff: Sure, sure,

[00:05:28] ck: So that's something that I wish somebody would've told me. Um.

[00:05:32] Jeff: What, what would be the result of, of taking such a mild dose?

[00:05:37] ck: Um, so couple, okay, so now I'm gonna nerd out for just a second if you don't mind. Okay. So, 'cause, 'cause I asked this very question about doses and frequency to the most revered shaman in the Amazon jungle region. Okay? Here's his rough response. Um, you can [00:06:00] go into it simply have, uh, two, uh, intentions. You can have many, many intentions, but in terms of grouping them, you can have two intentions, right?

[00:06:10] ck: One, you want to have deep processes, you wanna let go of certain limiting belief. You want to, you know, let go of your trauma like deep, right?

[00:06:18] ck: So for that case, you want to drink more.

[00:06:21] Jeff: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:22] ck: But if you just want, if you just want to, let's say if you don't have anything major, you process all your traumas and unprocessed energies and all the things, you just want to be able to.

[00:06:33] ck: Open your mind for a download for creative idea, problem solving, and all the things you just need a little bit. So typically, this is what I've seen, have having guided people through these processes. Typically in the beginning, people do drink more. 'cause we have, we carry a lot of baggages along the way, you know, don't have, [00:07:00] uh, channels, outlets to let them go.

[00:07:03] ck: So in the beginning, you drink a lot, but then over time you don't drink, you don't need as much

[00:07:09] Jeff: you.

[00:07:10] ck: because, 'cause you're in maintenance mode, right? You just, you're just there to connect with the divine and with yourself, with your higher self and so forth. So that was a kind of convoluted answer. What did you get from what I'm trying to tell you?

[00:07:22] Jeff: Uh, someone once gave me an analogy and I'm wondering about your opinion o on it. Um, uh, that is that, that when you've taken a, a fairly strong dose, it's almost as if a panel of buttons, a, a appears before you, that is aspects of your life. And you could actually go in and, and flick the, the panels so that the trauma button is, is, is switched off.

[00:07:51] Jeff: The, you know, the, the, these aspects of yourself that, that, um, that you want to be free of are, are, are things that can be manipulated [00:08:00] and, and then you can actually come out and have a lasting result,

[00:08:04] Jeff: uh, from that. Is that true?

[00:08:06] ck: Um, so the short answer is yes, but I, I wouldn't phrase it that way.

[00:08:15] Jeff: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:15] ck: Does that make it magic bullet like silver bullet, like, I just do this and flick it, switch, and then ta-da I am amazing. Right? And

[00:08:24] ck: you know, the thing about ayahuasca, this is a very unique medicinal or medicine, right?

[00:08:33] Jeff: mm-hmm.

[00:08:35] ck: Uh, how do I say this?

[00:08:36] ck: The wisdom you earn, you, you get isn't gifted. The trauma you heal isn't flicking a switch.

[00:08:46] ck: There's work involved. Hence why. Hence why in the ayahuasca circles we always said the work,

[00:08:54] Jeff: Right.

[00:08:55] ck: we never said blissful experience, even [00:09:00] though you will experience bliss. But it's not, it's it's called the work.

[00:09:05] Jeff: And, and, um, and is that done with a, an experienced coach, ayahuasca

[00:09:11] ck: Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Again, the way I'm structuring this, because that's how I've experienced it, most people, Westerners especially because we never grew up with that as part of our culture.

[00:09:28] Jeff: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:28] ck: People in the Amazon, they'd be drinking since we were kids, so they don't need a coach 'cause it's part of their ethos.

[00:09:35] ck: Right?

[00:09:36] Jeff: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:37] ck: People in the west, most of 'em, they just like, oh, I'm inspired to drink this medicine, completely unprepared, drink it, which is my experience. I just didn't know. Right? I drank and I have whatever experience and I took lessons along the way. The the way I see it as a little bit of a [00:10:00] overachiever, the way I think about it, my job as a coach bringing people to this type of experience is to optimize there.

[00:10:10] ck: Probability of having a great experience. So that's why I designed my program the way I designed. Right? Four weeks of preparation ceremony itself, two weeks of integration, so on and so on. So, um, that's the way, that's and the reason I created, 'cause no one else is doing it. I'm like, fuck, you know, I wish somebody else did it, but I didn't, nobody did it that way.

[00:10:34] ck: So, so hence why I take people it that way.

[00:10:37] Jeff: does the coach need to be familiar with the specifics of the, uh, of the life, of the person, the trauma experienced, the, uh, you know, the details of, of what the, the person is trying to e essentially detach from?

[00:10:55] ck: Yeah. So this is the way I work. I don't know [00:11:00] anyone else. This is the way I work. Okay.

[00:11:01] Jeff: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:02] ck: The way I work is Tell me what's. Top of mind, what matters to you the most, but I don't need to know all the nitty gritty details, the play by play. This is exactly what the trauma happens per se, because what we can control in life, in my opinion, two things, our effort, our response, what I coach people on isn't the nitty gritty processing of the stuff, right?

[00:11:39] ck: It's really helping them to claim that agency, make the, make the effort, and here's how I can support you to respond according to especially doing ceremony. 'cause much like a boxer, the coach isn't in the ring with you. [00:12:00] While you box, you know what I'm saying? I can't stay in your mind when you drink the medicine.

[00:12:07] ck: I can coach you from the outside as a, as a coach does that

[00:12:12] ck: I'm kind of mixing martial

[00:12:14] Jeff: Yeah. No, no, no. I, I, I understand it. It's very different from psychotherapy and, and other efforts that I've made. Um,

[00:12:23] Jeff: uh, and, um, and so it, it makes it alluring, but, um, uh, you know, uh, uh, I, I have to proceed with caution.

[00:12:33] ck: course. And, and by no means, this is not me trying to get you to do anything. I'm just asking because for me, this is the most accelerated way to really deal with the things that's hard to deal with on the superficial level.

[00:12:49] ck: So this is the most deep, right? So, and I happen to know the most revered facilitators, uh, shamans in the Amazon.

[00:12:58] ck: So if you ever want. [00:13:00] I am going gonna go back to the, to the Amazon jungle. So if you don't wanna take it along, you're welcome to.

[00:13:07] Jeff: Is, are the conditions relatively rustic? Is it, is it like a, a primitive condition or are you in a hotel somewhere?

[00:13:16] ck: Yeah. If you're, if you're used to four Seasons, unfortunately it won't be four seasons. It is a little bit more rustic than that, but you'll be fine. Yeah. If, if my fiance could deal with this, I'm pretty sure you can

[00:13:32] Jeff: There you go. Alright. Maybe, maybe. I'm big in Brazil, so it's, it's as good an excuse to go there.

[00:13:39] ck: Yeah.

[00:13:40] ck: So just, uh, planning to see if you,

[00:13:42] Jeff: no, thank you.

[00:13:43] ck: you know, if you want to follow up. All good. And

[00:13:46] Jeff: Thank you. Uh, were, were you good with, with the episode? Uh, uh, comparatively speaking, uh, how, how do you,

[00:13:54] ck: this one. Oh, this one is much more, you know, um. [00:14:00] How do we say this dynamic? Right? The other one was kind of bouncing a little bit out

[00:14:04] Jeff: No, no. I'm talking about in terms of the, the kind of brand identity of, of the podcast. Did, did we stray a, a, a a field from your perspective? In, in, in

[00:14:15] ck: Oh no. This

[00:14:16] Jeff: the podcast is usually

[00:14:17] ck: both were great. Uh, first one was much more focusing on like the business aspect of it. This one? Yeah. This one is broader, more purpose

[00:14:28] Jeff: of the reasons I really wanted to do it over again because, uh, having listened to more y your, you know, this is more where, where I saw your strengths and and identity in terms of the podcast was, was more in this, this kind of space.

[00:14:43] ck: Actually. I'm curious, since you mentioned that word, what do you think the identity of LY slash no Warrior is?

[00:14:51] Jeff: Uh, it, it, it, I, I almost wanted to bring this up during the,

[00:14:54] Jeff: the podcast, but I was, I wondered about, uh, and maybe I missed [00:15:00] the episode where you actually described why it's called Noble Warrior.

[00:15:05] ck: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you emailed me that question.

[00:15:07] Jeff: yeah.

[00:15:09] ck: so the way I see it, I mean, I'll answer it now. Uh, the way I see it is it takes Warrior spirit, the willingness to confront, you know, our shadow, our, our, our, our, our dragon within our ourself, and still looking up towards the nobility, right? The, the, the higher self, the divine self.

[00:15:32] ck: So, hence, in my opinion, you know, why I want to talk to noble warriors. People who's willing to face who they are, maybe you know, their shadows, uh, the stuff that they're not so proud of, and still keep moving towards mastery, our higher self, our purpose,

[00:15:51] Jeff: Right,

[00:15:51] ck: our service, and all, all those.

[00:15:53] Jeff: It, it's funny because, um, uh, I have this program called Never Surrender, which [00:16:00] deals with bullying and, and, and all that sort of thing. Um, and, um, in, in, in recent years while espousing, uh, uh, collective journey, um. Uh, is some have said, well, what, what is that supposed to mean? W why would you, um, uh, you know, um, uh, put across, uh, warlike, um, slogans, um, and, um, uh, and, and thinking about issues of, of darkness and, and demons and, and dragons and, and, and so forth. Um, I, I, I only, uh, uh, freed myself from that struggle, um, because of the, um, I. Um, the, the understanding that, uh, the projection of an opponent, um, uh, is a, [00:17:00] um, uh, first of all it's drama queen stuff, you know, it's, it's making up a story, uh, to, to explain what distinguishes me from these bad things. That are me. Um, and, and, and, um, and the assertion of bad on onto them was a big stumbling block in my life, uh, uh, uh, because it's the demon I named it and, and all that sort of thing. And, and it was an epic struggle and it, it almost resulted in suicide and all this, you know, a, a, a drama when, when I finally understand, stood that it was misfiring chemicals in my mind, combined with the fact that I got smacked around a lot, you know, and, and that was terrible.

[00:17:51] Jeff: But, uh, those are things that happened in the past that I, I can free myself from, um, uh, at least a little bit, [00:18:00] uh, uh, allowed me to drop that notion of, uh, of polarized, uh, conflict and, and warlike ways to, to create a more flow like state. Um, uh, you know, so, so, so that's, you know, that's my thing about, uh, about warriors.

[00:18:21] ck: Yeah, man. I mean, um, I have to go in in a second, but I wanted to say this. As I mature over time, I am, uh, leaning back quite a bit. Instead of this, ah, like I gotta go against someone to really just face myself, right? This effort, what it, whatever effort it takes to face myself, and maybe at some point it would just be effortless effort.

[00:18:47] ck: Like, ah, you know, I have a saboteur, a critic inside myself. Cool. Good to meet you. Like maybe one day will be that, like that friendly. Right. But right now it still requires effort on my part, so,

[00:18:59] Jeff: Right, right.[00:19:00]

[00:19:00] Jeff: My, my little OCD monster is sitting on my shoulder whispering in my ear,

[00:19:05] Jeff: and I go, alright, calm

[00:19:07] ck: Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Hey Jeff, uh, really cool connecting. Uh, can't wait to meet you in person very soon. Uh, as a quick reminder, please, uh, um.