John Livesay, aka The Pitch Whisperer, is a sales keynote speaker where he shows companies’ sales teams how to turn mundane case studies into compelling case stories so they win more new business. From John’s award-winning career at Conde Nast, he shares the lessons he learned that turns sales teams into revenue rock stars. His TEDx talk: Be The Lifeguard of your own life has over 1,000,000 views.

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that journey where you fumbled and where you don't want to share those feelings is what pulls people in. Click To Tweet I am a firm believer that stories are memorable. And it also lets people into your story. When did you become a great storyteller people will see themselves in the story with you. And you're no longer having to worry about using all these… Click To Tweet Selling is nothing more than story telling. journalist covering a need would get you all that questions too. Presenting something in a story format, right? And this big aha moment using storytelling to overcome an objection. And then of… Click To Tweet if you want to connect with them, connect with their emotions. Click To Tweet part of the reason we like to lead with data and fast is because we don't want to be vulnerable. We're not sure it's safe to let anybody in go on in your world. So what that does is it prevents intimacy on any level, business or personal. Click To Tweet your madnness is your method. where you fumbled, where you don't want to share those feelings that you'd normally don't talk about becomes part of your message. That's what pulls people in. Click To Tweet Before I prepare any talks, I write down these three questions. What do I want the audience to think? What do I want to be like EO? And what do I want them to do? And I work on the ending of my talk first. And then I answered those three… Click To Tweet the key to success is confidence. The key to competence with preparation Click To Tweet


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John Livesay Transcript

welcome to noble warrior. This is a place where entrepreneurs talk about what it takes to create a life of meaning, purpose and fulfillment. We're going to talk about mindset and mental models, actionable tactics, so that you can take everything that's shared here and go out and create a life of meaning and fulfillment for yourself.

My name is CK Lin former biomedical engineering, PhD researcher. director for the university of California startup executives, term startup executive mentor. I've been on a quest to understand what it takes to have a life of meaning and purpose. My next guest, he's a sales keynote speaker. He's the author of better selling through storytelling.

He is a Ted. Ex speaker with over 1 million views on YouTube. He's a course creator, a better selling through storytellingg at He's known as the pitch. Whisper, please. Welcome gentlemen.

Thanks CK.

How was box breathing for you?

It's great. I love the fact that you said , that's an important thing to do before.

Anything, whether it be fit for dates, or if we're on the phone call, we have to be in the present moment to be fully present.

Do you have any practices that you use yourself as a way to get present in a moment because I know that you have a very busy life. You have a lot of things on your calendar you're highly sought after. What are some of your practices as a way to be present for yourself?

what anybody thought about this? Colby and superhero or heard about them. And there's all the research behind it that, your testing platform goes up. Even if you're learning your part as old, the festival goes down and not too stupid course free.

And, if you shoot some basketball, then that closed for a few minutes, you'll suit more math. So a lot of people may, Oh, that two minutes is a long time to pull it through.

What I've done is add my own recipe to that, which is I work with my clients on wrapping their moments, certainty. I have them write down but they got a job offer or they had a goal happened or the action, great feedback from buddy.

And when we program our mind, then our head like airplanes or staff, airport people, your second goes home for certainty while holding it through your oppose and then you go live is a real way to boost your confidence and make sure that those spirit are not thinking of them.

when you are thinking about these moments where you have certainty. So say more about how you actually do that in terms of that emotionality aspect of it?

two things you've done as a speaker, my job to happens at all the different ways people have information, whether it's visual, kinesthetic or unimportant, So I have to make sure that I didn't have to stay in my little files tends to be visual, but also phrase things that we've made, that people who are auditory, like something you could do is that's how I can treat you like you are.

Or when we trust our gut, we have more confidence when you think a lot of variation speaking to a big group, because not everybody is saying. And so what I do with my client is not only do I have them write down those moments, but I helped them write feeling it. So stay with that. So when I won a gold medal, when I was the kid, I was proud when I got hired and I felt we elated.

So you're stacking up for us, but the feelings that go with it that you want to be feeling as you go into your next big meeting, or, do whatever.

I asked that question because, I'm an IMTJ for those of you that don't know what that means is, in a Myers-Briggs personality Taz out of the 16 of a mind, TJ is the most, one of the most rebar ones.

So aside as an IMTJ, I think I look at the world through systems and processes, but in terms of emotions, actually, it's a skill to have to actively cultivate. So, I'm curious to know from, your perspective, have you ever dealt with any IMTJ who was like super Cerebro, but at the same time who's who wants you cultivate this skill set of being a better speaker, a better storyteller?

It actually happened my sweet spot, my ideal client, and very tech oriented and left brain oriented and very well educated, more in the technology of how something works. And that can include not just selling a medical tech device, but also architects they're very much into wet footage. all that brainstem in any interview coming up, they were told where my clients were going to get different.

And the higher the firm that they liked the moat, because the project took six years, not who had the best United because they felt well, it all needs to work. Otherwise it wouldn't be in the final pre. And that's when I was called in and help that team work on their likeability. and they, because they literally didn't know where the fuck.

Alright, perfect. Great pause. So, speaking to the younger CK, who's super Cerebro, or, these, the clients of yours, various Cerebro, who thinks that, Hey, my work should speak for itself. Let me just focus on delivering the information. let me just deliver like a, professor. For someone like that, how do you coach them to tap into their emotions? their elation, their enthusiasm, and so forth

yes. Sometimes I have to get them out of their head in a variety of ways and ask him quick things and like getting to describe an experience where they are.

So one of my clients call, he was very afraid and rebuild or a military guy. And he wasn't even from the brewery with dish, with any passion. And he loved playing soccer. And so I said, what does it feel like when we hit that ball and it made the winning goal. And finally he started having a level of enthusiasm in his voice.

So I used that as a frame of reference. You did bring that same feeling when you're talking about this project. And so they had some frame of reference you'd categorize, what's an, I have empathy for them because when I was in Mike one eight, the first time we went to therapy, but their credit in does not work.

Try to start with my field, I think. And I was like, Oh, I wasn't aware I was doing it and literally a new pill, can I see all the pictures of all the funerals so I can figure out what , because, EQ emotional intelligence is not typically taught in school. there's all kinds of research for you left brain people that proves that you are actually more successful in a higher economy than your IQ.

Yeah, for sure. or the younger CK, the, cerebral lists that are listening to this, I wanted to underline something there's nothing wrong with the way that you are. What we're talking about here is about effectiveness because the rest of the world may not be as cerebral as you are.

If you want to tap into, who they are as a human being, if you want to connect with them, connect with their emotions. So, one, two, we're not also not asking you to artificially be someone else, be edge court jester or someone that you're not. We're all we're asking you to do is to tap into the emotion that, makes you excited.

That makes you passionate. That, have you be like, Oh, that's why I do the thing that I do, so that you can connect with that.

Yes as being your authentic self is key, but you also want to work on being the best version of you brought that takes time, as opposed to saying, this is the way I'm not catching.

I believe that who I'm can improve on a lot of different skills. but I think what I learned about myself that might be helpful for others is that part of the reason we like to lead with data and fast is because we don't want to be vulnerable. We're not sure it's safe to let anybody in go on in your world.

So what that does is it prevents intimacy on any level, business or personal when you don't let people in and all the way you're carrying frustrated, angry that. And so the first step is you have to figure out what you're feeling then to be able to expect it in a moment, the book, the hold onto it for two weeks.

Now, when you said that after my daily do that, maybe that. and then you have to rewrite that, when you express feeling individually, I think it's a story. I think a big fear. A lot of people have. I really told them how I felt it would end the relationship, making it closer, therefore fixing the facts and figures.

And unfortunately not only does it not feel intimacy, nothing you say is really memorable. and. the best way to connect with people in the show. You don't have it all together all the time and it takes down your map.

Yeah, for sure. I love that we had the dynamics, the recovering cerebral, listen, someone who's a coach who coaches, but sorry, realist.

So that's really great. from my, personal point of view, having a podcast has been a tremendous journey for me because the beginning, part of my journey in episode one, it was a lot about, let me just present my best self and let me just hide any of the highlight reel of who I am versus actually being a human being.

So in the beginning, if you go back and listen, it sounds a lot like these monk from the mountain top coming down and just share the solutions, the wisdom that I figured out in the world, and then an episode, I'm about 90 episodes in, and it actually, I can get to actually have fun with you and be a human being and just, show, Hey, I think all human beings, none of us are perfect, but all of us, I am imperfectly perfect.

No, whatever journey that wound is, whatever journey that we're on. So, I so appreciate you sharing that.

when I was working on my TEDx talk we expert, I hired who's a xspecialist in giving a text, which is very different than giving a talk in part of the sales team. What I normally do. he said your madnness is your method.

I don't know. So that journey ever, where you fumbled, where you, you don't want to share those feelings that you'd normally don't talk about becomes part of your message. That's what pulls people in. And I think that was a big aha for me. I remember once I had been in a car accident where one of those neck braces and a friend of mine is performing, and I went, I was going into the theater to.

You hear her singing? I thought I'm going to take this off. I don't want to draw attention to myself. And, my doctor says, are you crazy? You're supposed to wear that. Keep your neck getting worse. And what was going on in your head? Oh, I didn't want to look not perfect. I didn't want him to, Oh, what happened?

And I just wanted to, the, best version of the evening back that wasn't the case. So I was, it's been a big learning curve for me to let people go up. Yeah. With what happened. I applaud. I go back when I was in college, I had a job at an airline, in the summers working as a ticket agent, we're going to need extra help.

And back then they would up on our appearance. Literally you're good. Great. Are you fine? it's you're good. Right lane. I applied properly and, I was like, I go do that job. And then I went to college and I, grew up suburbs of Chicago and went to school down in Champaign-Urbana and then they reached out to me when I came home during the holiday break and said, Hey, at the time we ended up, we come back in none.

So insecurity CK that I thought. Oh, I don't have a Tam. Like I did in the summer. I gained 10 out from being pressed for 10. They're not good. I'm not going to be enough. I was totally putting my self worth on my appearance or not my skills as helping people, if the bags director with them, once that becomes your thing or your lesson to learn and do you heal it, you just keep replaying it in different scenarios.

Brent where I was working with the finding Nass, which publishes a lot of fashion magazine, wired AdvoCare, Grogan cutter. and you were expected to look like you got done with pages and those magazines when you were in the hallway and making sales calls. But honestly, I think it just went from one place where I got

Okay, at what point was the awakening moment for, you to realize this environment doesn't really cultivate, my self image. It's not a place that I want to stay any longer. Was there a wakening moment for you to realize that at some point?

there's a story, of course not for the moment you have any unpaid.

but not like we're counting Nass doing really well. 2008 on new tanks, they lay off 30% of the staff in New York and everybody and up at office in LA at the time. And that was a big joke. Anytime we get disrupted a loss, you have to go out and run horse moving. it makes identic, which is a little bit and.

I thought, wow. I got to reinvent myself and learn how to sell didn't book ads, not just print and a friend of mine. I'm like, I'm a movie stars. I'm a baby Pataki. And all right, that gave me some, I lost my job, but not my identity was my first, albums of that. And then ironically years later, I got hired back.

And ended up winning the Europeans higher company. And I would say that was the defining moment by that I'm the same person, but I'm getting laid off for women for award. I got to get off the roller coaster, only feeling good about myself. If I'm putting things in my number crop by myself, not making my quota or whatever.

And so that guy then part of the journey and I. One of the things I really want to, the younger version of ourselves is, it is you don't ever rely on one thing and go, okay, cause that'd be a girl now going to have that issue come up again. It just comes up in different forums. I remember when I was speaking at the summit the first time when I was looking at the other speakers and the imposter syndrome, and I was like, Ooh, I didn't go to an Ivy league school, my cooking on the New York, like all these other speakers and all my not good enough comes up.

And then I realized, wait a minute. I not hired to quote me an underwear model. Nobody cares how I hear the speaker. they are off my content.

no, I care about how I feel for things down, but for my touch, we're learning anything. And then I went, ah, that's why I got picked. And so it's still in fear because fear, ego and stuff of ourselves that we can feel like you're not enough with your appearance. And then you heal that a little bit.

And then it comes up in another way and it's imposter syndrome. So hopefully that's helpful.

definitely it's what you're addressing is the human condition, right? by, through evolution biology, we are social animals and in any kind of social organization, that you go back my wants to know where do we stand in the hierarchy of things, What's our status. in, in a, athletic community, it could be your athletic ability, in, in terms of entrepreneurial community, it could be your networth, Jeff Bezos, when he speaks in, standing in front of a crowd and, everyone knows he's the alpha, because he's worth about whatever billions of dollars.

and whatever, but so our, survival instinct is always trying to Jostle, do we, belong? Do we, am I, going to be isolated? And then what I die, right? This is a very primal instincts that we have. So I'm curious to know, as you are now aware of this internal grappling, how do you calm yourself down?

in the. In the, in the, events where the imposter syndrome in trigger in the event where Oh my God, they're, more beautiful or whatever, then I am. What methods do you have as a way to, again, come back to center and know?

one method is someone who actuals, you might have rubbish, which is, we don't want to think that the fight or flight response.

That you were referring to earlier, where do we fit in the hierarchy? What the positives? So many people end up thinking because our primal brain wants to be part of their tribe in the herd. And if you're separated from the partner that we can get off in the frontal. And so when you stand out on an audience, your brains go way out there, you're calling up your finding yourself.

You're doing, this is not. So just out of where it is part of my method. And I talk about, we get other places that are, so I go back to what is physically going on, adrenaline being beans. And I tell people to go and get rid of the butterflies I make, but you get those butterflies right in for me.

And we would get the negative energy into the room by making a dresser. Let you get out of our head, worrying about whether people like us or not. And we come back to our intent is I'm here to serve and help and hire, get them swimming pools. Then the nervous energy shifts from being scared to being fired.

You just go, Oh, game on my super bowl moment. This is my Olympic moment. And, everything on full alert. Because the difference between being here and it's very subtle and it has to be straight and labor law. Yeah. I like that.

I was doing a lot of research before, our interview today and I was watching a lot of different talks that you asking me.

And one of my favorites is the one where we, when you actually talked about your move, how life is an adventure, right before you moved from LA to. To ask them. Can you maybe tell that story? And I want to go in deeper on the, maybe the mechanics, how you actually deliver that story. So tell, us that story.

I decided that I wanted to change where I'll ask three, it was going to take play again. I think that everything has a story and we're the director of our own movie. We can recast it. We could take a location. And, since I didn't have a job that I would go into every day, like I did for many years in LA, Michael live anywhere, I looked at the line and replace it.

And when I landed on often for variety reason, not just because

keep it weird. A lot of tech startup out of music, free food, all of those things, no winter that are cold it's no, I'll help. You were part of that process. but moving into a place you've not spent time at, you don't know a lot of people that is a bit of an adventure. And I also wasn't even sure when I shouldn't sell my place in LA or should I wait until this spring in March?

rain storms. I'm going to put it on the market in January. I've invented a lot of them to take this out. So I'll figure out where I'm going with that happened. Could be, us, but it happened to sell in two days. And I thought, Oh, I gotta be out in 30 days now. so I've got to figure out there I'm going to land.

And I. Looking at some places downtown, I must for that kind of money, they'd be like, got rent a house. And then I found this amazing. I'm gonna go to rent or through a 300 acre park, I thought, huh. And the woman says, this whole state in your County to visit February where it won't be available. Then she showed me on her phone, Facebook, what the place looked like.

And I bought it. I released it. Literally. I haven't seen. so the whole process of, selling a place and there's all kinds of bumps in the road where somebody might want to back out and you're going to, and how do I adjust to that? How do I say flexible and fluid through the whole process?

And then again, just trust that it's all going to work out. was he journey of that adventure? Yeah. And of course our event, how many people go, wow. I need to get out like a hit and you're landing and you couldn't do a three-day car ride from LA to Texas. Now it wouldn't be the same. And, to put in hard as hell.

So all of that, because now the analogy is like in the folder, I feel that it was happening early. Marker. At least started here shortly after that, as I was putting down like, wow, that was amazing. And it was about trusting my gut. I could say, not that I'm able to receive the future. So it's been a bit of a challenge because moving is stressful, not knowing a lot of people's trust and trying to make new friends when people are not going out at these repos.

So there's been a little bit of a double, Mandy, but now they're about six months more into it. It's become a poet to go up. I can still, whether I was in there or not, I would still be having a zoom call from my friends. everything's changed and the reality I knew doesn't make the thing more. A lot of the restaurants closed and are coming back.

So I think when things changed, whether it would have been laid off from my job or leaving LA after a year, we can't look back because what we're missing doesn't even existed.

Yeah. I'll tell you why. I like this particular talk that you did. one is to subject matter, right? You talked about a lot about letting go surrender, serendipity, right?

And these are all subjects that I'm interested in these days. And there, so in my mind, there's a lot of wisdom in that. And also Jeff's to position on top of, what we're dealing with in pandemic, right? A lot of people are now reinventing themselves when you mentioned the live Raymond and the relationship reinventing, where they live.

So that's also very interesting and I also love the way that you, how you deliver it, because it's from my point of view, it's the most relaxed that you are. Cause I know you do different kinds of talks, right? The sales talks in front of the media TV, and then this is the most relaxed. And this from my point of view is the most authentic.

You're just being who you are. Oh really? not care. It's not the right word, but you are the most relaxed. It's basically what I'm trying to say,

but that's progressively on my speaking career, that's talking more recent than the TEDx talk. So that part of the goal as a speaker is to let more of your mess in your method.

you get the more you do anything if get more and more comfortable with blacks in it, like when you're out to dry. I remember my dad used to take me out for the truth parking lot. And, let me practice starting with driving the car pulled out. And before I went to driver's ed school and I went to driver's ed school and, got the permit and he's okay, more sitting in the driveway in the car.

And, I had this checklist. Thank you. You, before I start the car to check the mirror. Oh, I got it. Just start the car. Like we have other time. You're over thinking it, if I put in the key and then my perfect celebrator. And so any scale, whether it would be or driving Nick or whatever it is, continues to get to the place where we're so competent that the confidence flows, which allows them to be more relaxed.

Perfect. I love that. So we do talk about the four stages of learning the unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence, to conscious competence, unconscious competence. So I love that you talk about that. So if you don't mind using this particular talk and I should dissect, how you come about this, I think it would be very educational, very informative for anyone else.

Who's listening to us of someone who is the young. We have a version of John and CKS who says, Oh my God, I'm a cerebral. As I think of a story, how do I pick a topic? How do I find the beats of the story? How do I, go from conscious incompetence to conscious confidence, right? Let's maybe talk about that a bit.

So if you don't mind going from the very, top of why you want to deliver this talk to walk to with the topic selections one foot so we can narrow it down accordingly. If you don't mind doing that.

No. since your cerebral Doris, I'm going to give you something you probably like, which is I'm a recovering server.

I reverse engineer my Hawks. So I write down these three questions. What do I want the audience to think? What do I want to be like EO? And what do I want them to do? And I work on the ending of my talk first. I answered those three questions. I'm like, Oh, okay. I want them to feel inspired. I want them to think that they shouldn't be afraid of change.

And I want them to put at their own life and see how they could reframe it as something, as an adventure, as a group, just resisting any change, whether it's moving or losing a job or whatever. And then I work on my opening and that. Probably is I spend the most amount of time on it, whether it's my book mind.

And I thought you've got to grab people in that first 90 seconds and pull them in with why they should care. And so don't waste time with this opportunity. I'm excited to have you here. Don't waste time at family and play with Corey. Jump into the story and. Then I, now that I have my own name, my full name, like what are my feet, the takeaway, and ideally their liberation, what a flag is meant to be fast and fluid and flexible.

And then I crashed story underneath North bullet points and then within crafting a story and either just what that story has, and we can get into that if you want. But I think that's a good thing. Oz. We give you a sense of. Overall structure. Yes. Yeah,

no, I really loved that design firm with the Annie Maya.

What do you want them to think? What do you want them to feel and what do you want them to do, Is that accurate to recap? Yeah. Yeah. With that in mind. And then, what are the three main takeaways, alliteration and so forth, Oh, that's right. That's right. You say the hook, right? Yeah.

th there's a lot we can go there. so let's actually emphasize, underline the importance of having a good hook. One of my mentors, he said the internet right in the world today is you have infinite shelf of possibilities. How do you stand out from, that? So I'm curious to know when you are thinking about the hook, the opening, how you, how do you.

What goes in your mind as a way to stand out? Because one may say a few different schools of thought, right? When I say, just be loud, be crazy. But, that's not, your brand. That's not what you do. So I'm curious to know, be open with the joke and that's very Seinfeld that's right. I'm going to recommend that think.

That's right. So, what would you say to someone who. Who may have all these things and, they are clear about think for you and do they are clear about maybe the main lessons that wisdom, how do you help them stand out in the infinite, in, store shelf of the internet

on fails in three hours, rule the world it's even more relevant today because he didn't have to compete against the vaccines of the internet.

But when he was saying so I am a firm believer that stories are memorable. And it also lets people into your story. When did you become a great storyteller will see themselves in the story with you. And you're no longer having to worry about might be out enough or using all these inextricable people read the story.

A good story has the current structure to it. I'm happy to go into when you use that structure, people lean in and want to hear what's next.

it's perfect. I'm speaking to a speaking, a storyteller coach, a master storyteller, and someone who aspired to be a storyteller. It wasn't until very, recently, because for the longest time I thought to myself, I'm doing this podcast because I'm a curious person.

I'm just an interviewer. And it wasn't until just a few months ago. Really is a friend of mine told me that. Hey CK, you're a storyteller. And that blew my mind because I'm just asking questions. What do you mean most storyteller? you ask questions as a way to draw out the story within your guests that makes you a storyteller.

I was like, Oh, I never thought of it that way. So ever since then, I am learning the mechanics of storytelling. So I read books like story by Rakim, Robert McKee, looking at. Other master, podcast hosts and how they tell their story, how they draw the best, the Howard Stern's they're Larry Kings, like the Cal Fussman and all these, they can fair is all of these people that I, admire.

So I'm curious to know, what would you say to someone like me? Who's an aspirational storyteller who may not be well-versed in the unconscious confidence stage. In, telling stories better.

first I would say that myth, that storytellers are born and it's just naturally spilled through the hat or you don't, it's not for anyone.

You've learned how to sell them. Now, the level where you get to where you are from a practice you got, and the fact that you've prepared so much for the interview. Shows me that the skills aren't her ass, they miss post said, the key to success is confidence. The key to competence with preparation. And I know that was one of my keys.

My sales career, the amount of preparation I did compared to other people. And when I interviewed the sound up on my podcast and he called me a journalist, it was like somebody calling you is probably tell journalists and podcasts journalists. And you did more preparation than any other I have, of course, since you asked me about my book, so I know what you feel like bringing it up.

I was careless. So it's just opening ourselves up to all kinds of possibilities, thinking yourself through that. Especially with my background, I had failed the editors and the ad sales people were not allowed to talk to each other because they didn't want a car company with advertising to go to the sales room.

Hey, tell the editors, put our car in a couple of nights. So it was church and state. And ironically, you brought up Cal Kaufman. Who's a good friend of mine. He has a wonderful podcast called big questions. And he interviewed me on that because he used to be a journalist flyer and I was telling ads for a competitive magazine and we broke down what we're chopping.

We said, let's break down that wall and go punch up. David Reagan. Between our side and hers. And he said, I now have to sell myself. John is the sales person. And then I don't know how to sell. I said y'all, but she know how to ask and selling is nothing more than story telling. And so that whole interview, I work with him on all the stages.

When a field call is from building your core and he had to, as a journalist covering a need would get you all that questions too. Presenting something in a story format, right? And this big aha moment using storytelling to overcome an objection. And then of course closing the sale. Arthur Ashe, excuse me, Abraham Maslow, the psychologist hiearchy of needs, who said if the only tool in your tool box is the hammer.

You tend to go around looking for nails here. Don't tell people volume that you asked me, what am I going to muddy by it? But when you tell a great story, the question is, does that sound like the kind of journey you'd like to go on? And so that would my modeling panel, and then we actually share it together at that Coca-Cola BMS.

And when I was talking about, on his emphasis on asking the right questions and telling those stories, we combined them together. that was quite a wonderful event to go to.

Now I love that. So anything else? So, one thing is, be open to a new identity. So in my case, all of a sudden I'm a storyteller.

I was like, Oh, I didn't know that. boom, right there. So be open to new identity in your case, you're a journalist. what other tactical or a framework or even mindset things. Would you advise someone who is an aspirational storyteller? So yes. Storytelling is a learnable skill. I truly believe that you, I believe that we can learn anything and we do have maybe some, people may have the affinity for joke telling, or storytelling or something, but everything can be learned.

So there's that be open to a new identity? Anything else around. the advice to younger CK that even the currency K who is, who wants to be better at storytelling?

she called it the nice structure. Let me tell you what the fuck should I use and teach to become a storyteller? the first part is expedition.

You really got the journalists where the more detail you give and paint that picture, the more people are reading the story. And then you need to deprive a problem. Every story had some kind of challenge going on. you also have to realize the hero in the story because it meaning your company up is my role in the story of the surplus, or am I the hero of the story?

It's a lot more interesting by helping somebody else, but don't make yourself that your own, I would say. And if you do you mean figure out how that was relevant to people listening. The better you describe a problem, but there are other people that you've got their solution. And then you come up with the solution and the secret sauce.

the resolution. And that's what most people don't do. You have imagined the river ending when Dorothy got in the balloon to go back and get, and B we would have lost that whole, the moose to have her back in bed. You were there, What I learned is it's like home and all of that needs to be in a story out, got resolution.

What is life like people after they've worked with you or are they hired?

okay, so, like the, the heaven, the picture as Kevin, right? The more concrete you can paint a picture for that. what's the, after they work with you. If he can concretize that more, then you can really draw them in better.

Can you give us some more examples of what potential resolutions could look like? Because that word can be, mean many things for many people.

Sure. I'll give you a couple. I was working with a healthcare tech company and I was asking them, what are you saying to get people, buy your equipment?

sounds like you're street with me. And I said, there's no story there. And so I pulled out the details. What does it even mean? What's the surgery link without your permit? Oh, 20 hours for pretty different paths. But now we have. All right. So we go to the exposition. Imagine how happy doctor was six months ago.

Okay. Now, where are you going to seen when using our equipment? And he could go out to the patient's family in the waiting room. And if you've ever been in that situation, every minute feels an hour came out an hour earlier than expected. Good news that their loved one did not have cancer from the, for drink and was going to be okay.

Then the doctor

that's why I became a doctor for moments like that. If you tell that story to another doctor and that doctor sees something in that story, he said, that's why I became a dog and I want you to quit. The resolution of that story was the doctor say he got quite the doctor. He just ended because moving up.

But you see how I described that problem in such detail and even pulled me away. If you've ever been to Asian now, you're really where you were waiting for some kind of surgery. And if that hasn't happened to you in your lifetime really well, or you're certainly not the one who had that experience. And so that's the other big part of showing I really understand what it feels like. So the fact that the doctor comes out an hour earlier Euro in this and your equipment is the circuit that made him the hero, getting you to come out an hour early in the deep of family member of that torture.

but it's not overnight Hey, one session with John let's hone into the heart, the soul of, this particular story. Can you share with us a little bit about the journey going from there's a billion things that we're going to talk about mechanistically to benefits, to features, get you the soul of a story right there, because I'm sure it's a process.

Turn my book into an online course that takes people through that process was in small 10 minute increments and then quizzes them. And then I worked with them. I had a Facebook group where they can practice telling these stories in such a way, because what would tell us that story is the one that's the way to put in a sale and get higher.

it doesn't take as long as you might pay, obviously not one session, but first is the awareness and the Newton, I'm a storyteller. And then. Figuring out how like ignoring a study and turn it into a case Marie, or how do I take my own story of origin and make that compelling so that people want to connect with me.

so that story of origin means you get into whatever it is you're doing and the story of origin of your company. the story of origin of noble warrior. There's a story there, like your own story of origin. And then. No, the story of people you've helped. So first you tell your story and you'd have the story of your company and it's just a one person company.

And then you tell the story of other people who have, so I help people figure out how to tell all of those stories to the whole office of selling, but it makes you magnetic and you don't put pushy anymore.

Magnetic versus pushing. I love that. Yeah. It's a nice contrast. Nice visual. Yeah. So, if any of you're interested, definitely go to go from invisible to and check out more of that with John.

I want to ask you some, let's see if we can go both mechanical or, the inner game of it. Let's stand it's a bit there. let me ask you this. So how do you refine that sensibility for good story? Cause you obviously. I have articulated a key part of the skill is the mechanics of storytelling, right?

So there's an aspect of it. And certainly a lot of people do want to know more about that, but I'm also curious about the meta-cognition aspect of it. How do I know that? How do I hone my sensibility focus story? Because out of a billion stories I could possibly tell maybe only a handful that are good story.

That were for my intention the most. So can you share a little bit more about that, sensibility of choosing a good story?

That's a very common challenge. People come to me where I've got so many stories. I don't know which one to use or which ones to pick what word, but the man, and a lot of it has to do with, if you're getting somebody one-on-one you want to eat your mind, like a feat.

And you push for numbers and letter brought a certain sprayed at time. Their goal is at as a nice breeze of audible ready to go. So in the moment you can decide which one's the best fit for that person. And if you were presenting in front of a live audience, like I do that, we do a lot of preparation to figure out what their problems are, which story that.

Solves their problem that they're most likely to see themselves in. So I can give you an example. So one of the techniques for hunting is an open loop. Have you heard that concept before? Yep. So you sorta T pumping out all the time. It's like we keep watching in a way you have to Zack, want to start that off.

That is early as possible. And I had people do it when they introduced me. So instead of just reading my bio, the introduction is demise, and they'll say, Oh, Tom's going to talk to us about making that. Michael Phelps a lesson he learned that we can apply. That's an open loop. I know my topic might have those three, but I do it within 15 minutes and people are always waiting for that.

Keeps them engaged.

Okay. I love that. since you opened a loop there to tell us that Michael Phelps story,

sorry, I

was waiting to see if you were going to keep that out because I wanted that it's going to be just marching into it. Why don't people to see that's what happens when you get up and move. People want to close that loop.

That's a little goal, even in a good elevator pitch. Do you want him to treat people not to date? Tell me about that. So in this case, listen, if you don't want to hear my coffee, that's fine. If you're in a

loop enough, you're like, Ooh, I would like to hear that. So that's what creates collaborative conversation. Remember your whole goal is not to just be on a great storyteller. It's having an emotional connection and a collaborative pumping station with everyone, whether it's one person or I'll get undressed.

So, I'm curious. So essentially the open loop is like a hook, right? You're saying you're not attached to any particular hook. You just drop, hooks all over the place. And then if they pick up the pickup

and you let them figure out which one they want to pull down from that tool box, I said three, I did pretty good.

And I go, what's that? Oh, tell me more about that. Each one of them has a story ready to go in the structure that I,

So, my question is how did you select the hook? How did have developed awareness and sensibility? You say this story is a good hook, for example.

So well of storytelling. Was he been talking about. how do I find my story? Basically? It's what our question is. And how do I know a story rather? So a story by itself isn't relevant, unless there's a resolution to it. that's a burden insight. And then, there's four kinds of storytelling genre.

There's the rags to riches, the Cinderella kind of movie now she's or by the fireplace. And then she gets renamed and has this wonderful life. And then. Oprah, her own personal story is and a lot of brands are using this. I was talking to the CMOs and as prep girls, which is an airport malls. And I said, I'm this all star?

Oh, she's marker. Wow. That's a race Richard's book. So that story you've already been using, I Shaundra is one.

Another one is, rebirth. It's one of the like Holly Christmas movie, you're like, Ooh, how am I? I do have an impact, a two over Prudential campaign for Irish people. this is your third act.

it's a week work. It's not just a continuation of middle age. So people go, Oh, so there's all kinds of genres that you can study and learn and figure out why we start. You want to. Sorry, which John, or does your brand fit in? It was great in this movie that you could eat so it's, it's part of learning what all the different genres of growing healthy figured out what your honor, you want to be part of the story.

What are the other two? You said a four. So, now, I'm intrigued. Please tell me, close the loop.

Yes. Which is, the Lord of the rings movie. let's just one of their taglines with the pursuits of perfection on that quest. And then the fourth one is, decide to leave public, have an adventure, and then come back and tell everybody.

But that's clearly wizard mom doing that. Alex

I'm I'm trying on the size, right? What does noble warrior fall into? I would say probably more of the quests that he was doing, This, is Kaizen, this ever, lasting improvement is pursued for, self-actualization and self-transcendence definitely is a very archetypal story that we're falling into right here,

which loops back to what I was saying earlier, as you fix one issue, Oh, I'm only valuable.

If I look my best, then another issue for Elaine. So it's like peeling an onion is the continuous journey. There is no estimation where you go, I'm totally lying. I never have a moment of doubt or fear or, Hey, I'm always happy. Invest. it's not the goal.

Thank you for, sharing that. So if I'm also hearing what you say is you didn't say this, but you say it implicitly is you, Look at life through the lens of stories.

So even if you're having regular conversations with people, even if you are watching TVs or YouTube videos, you look at it through the lens of stories. Is that accurate?

Yes. In fact, I worked for at AGC getting commercials from movies. So I really honed my storytelling skills there because she went out on a movie and had to cut it down to 32nd, figure out.

Who's going to want to go see this movie, based on what scenes we pull out of that 30 seconds. That's basically another purpose. yes. bigger problem solution lens is how you move people to engage with you with salary perspective. And the best way to do that is through telling us stories that people can be themselves in and that you're, taking them on that curve.

When I was selling advertising for, Ashley magazine on DNS, 15 years ago now, it was in my territory and they were coming out with the lens of sportswear and I went to one and I said, Would you consider eligible?

Would it be a sports magazine? And I said, what if you tapped into the right brand imagination in the picture, we treated your Swarthmore and left you one type cash and hired model wearing on a fashion show on the hotel pool. And you could invite Michael elk he's on your payroll person. He was in the middle of it.

that'd be career during that. And we got home from a movie for you. And they said, I don't know, that is okay. We'll do good. We got some attic, but I think that wasn't expected. But for me personally, meaning my profile or my lifeguard was really, so I said to him, Michael because you either like fins or you have a bigger lung capacity than most people, but I guess he did something else.

He said, yes, John. When I was young, my coach said to me, Michael, are you willing to work out on a sunday? Yes, coach. Great. We just got 52 more workers than any competitor. I shouldn't become. What are you willing to do that your competition isn't or hasn't even thought to do?

Okay. that's one of my signature stories and you can see how it follow the goal. Fixed position, you know how that happened? Oh, I happened to meet my bills. there's stories within the stories. Obviously I'm showing a story of me selling somebody, something and going to take 80 of them. Now, ask me one question and then you saw me acting out the dialogue in real time when I'm telling the story and looking down in the coach, looking up on young, Michael, back to the coach, all of those are.

Yeah, thank you for illustrating some of the mechanics of it, because for the trainee eyes, you are just natural at it, but this is very intentional with a lot of the different gesticulation that you did.

So, I want you to stand up comics like Jerry Seinfeld, or even Ellen on their wedding, foun, Netflix radio show. And you see them doing that a lot.

This is actually perfect because, there's a few direction on when I take it. the, one of the per se, so one of the, one of the things that, I admire most, about the Dave Chappelle is his ability to focus on the mundane and then just turning to an hour show just based on what, something that nobody would think was funny.

or Louis C K or J Seinfeld Allen. Very, similar. So to me that's more of a, the Olympic level of storytelling because you're just picking something. That's supermom, being able to look at it through a new lens and X mechanics, and mastery of storytelling. And you're able to actually just, make a whole stadium laugh and so forth.

What's your take on that. I'm curious to know, when you see someone as a master storytelling yourself, how, what's, your visceral reaction when you see them able to pick something super mundane and just make something a whole huge story out of it?

one of the reasons why a lot of comics use, air travel as a.

Story that you have most people that are playing. And so they're constantly searching for what is something everyone's experienced. And again, if I look at it from a different lens, it seems a little crazy. So something as simple as, Oh my God, we really still move. I wanted to show us how to buckle a seatbelt at this point in our life.

Oh, we've all experienced that yet. Can you give points on the night that. It seems a little absurd. So you're looking for something that seemed relatively mundane and looking at it through a different lens of why is this something that we still need to talk about or be shown? what planet will do that?

What in January did that place, did they suddenly just keep up with people struggling and said one day, Oh my God, we got to do that. So there's this one little thing you just keep asking more and more questions about what else is fine. If this is funny, I actually did an inner comic and I was talking about the open.

Do you want, my thoughts would be,

the first thing I do every morning to take a cold shower, it burns fat. It reduces inflammation to fight depression. And I said, actually, it hasn't been burned back. Okay. And as I was working on that, I actually, was telling your friend there. And when I actually, it had to be a part of that, I just Fontane, as he said that he laughed and I thought, huh, I wasn't trying to be funny.

I was just being me. I wonder if it would be funny if I go down again and then I. fucking for the humor specialist. And he said, we really test it. Like you wouldn't have and say funny, or if I did burn fat again or in the middle or at the beginning, and then here's the technique that you could really like you talking, which is, if this is funny, what else is fun?

So after I stayed that actually it had me, it burns fat people laugh. I said, yeah, So now I don't even work out anymore. I don't take your coat off. That's funny. I like that, but that was the breakfast. There was a process to it. Yeah, I see. So that was funny and funny.

So what I'm hearing between the lines again, I want to, I don't want to project, but I want to make sure that I'm catching everything that you're saying here.

So be open. one, just be yourself, throw things out there, and then also pay attention to what generated the intended outcome that you have, whether it's being inspiring or getting a laugh, or getting that sale, whatever, and pay attention to that and use that as data point to further late.

What else? If this is funny, what else is funny? If this is, effective, this is achieving intention that I want. What else? along the same line. Can I, extract exaggerate certain things or extrapolate a bit more, we'll ask a different question to achieve even a bigger outcome. Is that accurate?

so I love the fact that you, Use that. So did you actually do a stand up comedy for a little bit as a way to test your storytelling skills?

no. I was in theater and I feel a little bit of input. And ironically, for those who don't know who God is all about. Yes. And you don't judge, we shut something down and, Adam insurance was interviewing neighbors speaker.

and you have to sell, get higher. And I asked them, and with work, if I get hired new your speaker and open the email, what else is happening after I speak? And they said, Oh, at the end of the first day, we're going to have an improv session. they shouldn't be the doctor, be the people in the audience and see how they do it.

An imposter. And I said my two words, what if I stayed? And we'll be honest, it does during the improv and I can whisper in their ear. If they got stuck something I said in my pot to keep the conversation going, I look, pay attention. They say, Oh my God, he never even thought of asking anybody. We do that.

And I went from just being interesting and maybe a little bit irresistible because I presented them with belts, theater. I offered them something my competitors be willing to do because they wanted to get on and plane out 400 slots too. I love that. And then they said, I'm like, I'm puking my ear off when I'm in the field, you really are with her.

I love that. So now that's getting to, is this the way you naturally do as a way to see you where you can add value anytime, anywhere, any place with anyone?

Yes, teach people how to go from invisible to your recording, realizing where you are on that ladder and constantly asking myself, okay, I'm just interesting right now they put into me, what can I do to get even more pain can become irresistible.

So I'm walking my talk and sometimes that's future-facing, but you've heard that concept puncture. Oh, go ahead and elaborate for us, for our listeners. Yeah. So you did it in the reverse can invite a younger adult. I do it let's imagine we're having a conversation a week after the event, but what has to happen for you to feel really happy that this was the best one ever when they start picturing yourself in that back?

From a practical standpoint, I've worked with people interviewing for a job, and that's all about telling your story and taking your experience and putting it into a story. And then asking that question when it comes the end of the interview. And I think we have any questions, unfortunately, a lot of people think, Oh, how much they get shit like that.

And when is it? All right. so the new question, I get people, what would it look like if I was to exceed your expectations in this job? I had somebody to get hired on because you're not saying you're somebody who goes with a gun, you're having a digital up in the job already. And then I began to visualize what it looks like.

So see expectations may not be that they just come up with the format of here's looking five departments are the fact that you're asking that question, go with me. But it's telling me is you're going to go above and beyond the minimum. And that's what I have, what we want, the skills we continued. We want the mindset of that.

I, that, was very Ninja. I love that. I really do. part of I'm a, kind of sore of questions. Cause I, I truly believe that the quality of life is a direct reflection of their quality of the questions that we ask. And if we asked you question, you're gonna have shitty life and then to ask great question.

I have a much better life, right? So hence why the podcast is all about asking me questions. What does it take to have a life of purpose? Join me, right? Because that's a much better question is why does the world suck? So, I love that question. That was very, Ninja. That was awesome. I just, I love it.

So, I'm curious, as a fellow podcast host, and this is something that I, having a inquiry of. I wanted to have a public inquiry with you the way I see it in the beginning was, Hey, how do I use this as a way to attract an audience? some people, some other noble warriors was on this quest with me.

Then it dawned on me that, Hey, I've had 90 people who is, on this path already who are thought leaders in the known right. Who are also, how do I actually create value for them? So I'm curious to know, I know that you've been on this journey as a podcast host since 2018. If I recall correctly, you've done hundreds.

Yeah. 300. Yeah. that's, amazing. I'm curious to know how, if we frame it as, you have had relationship with the brain and plus people who. I thought leaders in their own. Who all, so once to use storytelling as a way to advance other people's lives and their own life, and they also share a positive message with the world who's committed on that path.

How are you, being the hub-and-spoke right and adding, or how could you rather add more value to this network of beautiful human beings that you have either.

the, one of the things I did is I turned 10 of my favorite episodes into a book and I offered the same. The book is called the success of the fish, just like the podcast.

And all the guests are asking if you take the transcripts from the other side and turn it into a chapter, I said, yes. And then they help the book. So they loved it because they got their message out in another format. I also take the transcripts from that instead of throwing it into moving article. so they've got content without having to write a word, they can post on their website and share it to the Lutheran community.

And then of course it's the right introduction know, keeping all those people in my head. So that like a jukebox again, when someone says, no, I'm looking for someone who does this, that's why it's so important to have great elevator pitch to people. Oh, you need to meet this person. So you become the hub as, just as by it connects all of your guests to what they are looking for.

So I'm going to be a lot of investors and they said, listen, it provide me to help them with their pitch. You know what I actually dust in? I'll take the meeting. great. That's a win for everybody. I, interviewed a lot of speaking girls who represent me because I created content. For them to help them distinguish themselves from other bureaus, because of PR.

Cool. So there's a lot of different ways you can provide value for your guests.

I love that. How did you, by the way, John, how did you hone into this particular profession or Dharma or path, or, this, thing that you want to focus on, Hey, I'm going to double down, storytelling. Slash sales as a way to, home is my X factor as my, superpower.

I think we have to go back and get the whole picture. Sure. Breaks be relevant. So I made sure now I thing I loved the entertainment aspect of it.

Motivated people with way to people to take an action or King grants or whatever. and then I, started my career selling these multi-million dollar computers and really learned the basic, the telling, better like maybe young and real out of it. It wasn't just about having something that was less expensive or more reliable or after it was a lot of psychological issues going on.

So that then if he bought something that wasn't IBM, they would point the finger at the other corner and say, it's their fault. This thing went down and you're going to get fired for bringing it out of the bedroom. I was like, wow, it's not just bring decision-making here. And then learning about converting movies and commercials and convincing other studio to IRR ADZ.

That we were quote, a better storyteller and having a story of that, a movie, we take it into my DSP, in home video, and then selling advertising for all these different brands and, explained it, and he entered his vision on their voice. I had attracted a certain kind of the leader that would bring it, whatever that launch like car was or what tech Jean company was trying to do.

And so it was always very telling and, and I just realized that the better, the more than likely I was to get a sale, I can practice, lessons that the agency would have with a media. And they might the other people to come in and pitch if they don't talk to us about the numbers. And we've already looked that up.

It's my final selection. I'm as a story and idea onset are going to have to. Work beyond just the ad in the magazine. So all of those things to mind to go, Oh, I need to connect the dots. And when I was selling, I thought I've had three separate careers, tech, advertising, entertainment, business, and now ad sales.

And then there's the thing called the inner. And we're going to just look

and, and then, Oh, we're not going to just put the miles on magazines that today we're going to put celebrities, even in your opinion. Oh, I knew so. all of these experiences are so siloed contribute to making you better wherever you want. And now the last seven years or so, it's all been about.

Oh, I see a problem that I can solve, especially for tech people. And especially for people in the healthcare industry that they're not telling the stories and they don't, aren't aware that they need to, and then they don't know absolutely. Once they do, they start winning business, but that's my niche. So it's just the continuum of officer's like this.

It can get better and better. You're laser focused on who I helped them with a problem. I saw having a story for you. No, I want to get you a full Memphis, 30% faster turning into that heart warming story that when people, when you're talking to people

yeah. there's so much I can go into, For someone who is listening to this, right? Cause you had talked about a lot of the external, the, circumstances shift, how you hone your skills, in advertising and entertainment in, sales as a way to hone yourself as a polymath that was storyteller.

And I also wanted to hone in on the inner journey aspect of it from the unconscious competence to conscious, sorry, unconscious and competence to. Conscious and competence, there's a journey of, I don't know if I could do it right. There's a jump of doing that. could you share with us a little bit about, let's see how to ask this question in a better way.

what beliefs are required when you mindset did you need to take on as way to. Continue to walk down the path of being a master storyteller.

First belief myth that you have to let go of is, that if people get to know and trust you to buy from you, we've heard that forever. And the problem is that behavior that people have to get to know me before they trust them, like me also being pushed out of hearts nation.

me and my company and my bot. And then the second myth is people don't buy well, they, might emotionally and then that perfectly, Oh, so what do I need to do to fix those two? Yes. you have to start with trust, which is a gut thing. That's going to add, take memories to take care of. so we didn't have a weapon in your hand.

You need to build trust. And it goes to the heart. So I like you, show that you're happy. And then he goes to the hack and it's still not about pushing out information. Young unspoken question people have is wherever the work for me, if they can't see it, they won't buy it. So that's why storytelling is so valuable because when people see themselves in the story, go on with this book, work for me because I see myself in that story.

I see. So the story embedded the trust. The like, and the, what was the other one? The headway and knowing got hard head. Yeah, I like that. I'm definitely a convert for sure. I'm on my path to be a master storyteller.

one of the things that I'm also curious about is, and this is something I'm trying to articulate the best that I can.

So in. Startup land, there is product market fit. But, what's even more important is founder market fit. Like why you, so in my mind, translating that similar concept to stories, are there stories, storyteller fit that you think about? So for example, I'll give you a, great example. I'm really passionate about understanding what it takes to have a fulfilling life, but do I embody, fulfillment and passion? I, don't think so. but, I, it's a problem. I'm really passionate in solving because as an overachiever, if I don't focus on it, I have seen many times the end of the tunnel and there's no cheese in yet. And I realized that achievement is no way, no means to have a great life.

It is a part of it, but it's not the whole equation. So if I want to ultimately optimize for a fulfilling life, I got to focus on that versus trying to achieve something as a proxy to have achievement. My point of sharing, all of that is, do I embody fulfillment? I don't think so. I'm not the Dalai Lama.

I'm not. the happiest monk, you know what that EEG hooked on a night, my brain to say that. So I'm curious to know, as a advisers, a super coach or someone who's, who wants to hone their story, do you think about stories, storyteller fit at all, or is that something that's a irrelevant thing that you don't even think about?

We had a couple concepts here. The why you. It's definitely what the storyboard is in there. And if you've been in the cues of the people who you're helping, then investors see, Oh, you have empathy, really understand the problem better than everybody else. That's what gives you the expertise to solve it?

so that's one of the part of that. The other part of it is, people aren't even internally motivated or externally motivated to take action. So when I was working with Lexis and they were launching, they said, we don't have the history that BMW and Mercedes guys, and, some of the buyers by the book, the logo, brag about owning it.

But there's a whole other group of people that are inherently motivated that I, because the workmanship or the craftsmanship, because it's fun to dry and they don't really care what the label is to make their decisions for themselves and Nancy, what you can see, we put lectures on that short list of cars that they're going to consider.

And so my job was against them that the astronaut revises a big brand art groupie, and actually at the same thing, people bought it for the label. They're busted about that person too, or their work on shift because they liked it for themselves and they weren't trying to hurt people. And so the premise of, that awareness of why we take action and how achieve all things of that is I think really important for your own personal growth.

Am I achieving this? Because I need all this certain number of listeners or. Monetizing that way for me to feel like it was really endeavor or internal motivated to interview people, to build my network and learn from them. I get like a if possible, and possibly contribute some way back to them. And that's how I get phone.

We keep this and then you're totally free from looking outside of yourself to decide if you're happy with the festival you do, when you shifted to. I'm happy now, not as soon as many episodes for a clean slate that as many books or paid any. Cause my plan is, as you said, it's empty because once you keep something like they did it's okay.

But it's not perfect. So you just gotta get off that as soon as mental game, as soon as I get this, then I'll be happy. It doesn't last very long.

Yeah, for sure. it's the lesson that I had to learn many, times, right? The, in order to that, once I get this, then I'll be X right. For happy or whatever.

And just try that many, times and then say, it's a tunnel with no cheese in the end. And I realized like, Oh, okay. I got to really got to change. My, whole mindset around it. So these days for me is, am I enjoying this in this very moment? I'm enjoying my time with John, Versus. I'll be satisfied when I hit X and that's just, I think Jim carried said so well in his commencement speech, he says, the likelihood and life is full of failures.

the probability is really, high. Yeah. Fairly, he might as well go after what you really love. that's, the new paradigm that I'm operating from, Focusing on the process, not the destination because the destination human and they get there. You probably won't appreciate that.

very cool man. So one, a few more questions. So as a master storyteller, now, you have a story. You have honed

in your, wife, you have honing your, what do you have Kellen Honi or deliverable you have hone in the beats of the story. How do you then take. What you have as a story and ride the waves that there's guess at the time, because I'm assuming projecting, correct me.

If I'm wrong, now you have this tool, then you can ride the waves of the media and to say I'm relevant because of hearing that. And the other thing I'm curious to know how you find relevance to what's happening in our day.

I can give you two example, last September a year ago. I got interviewed by, when I was back to school time, and it was, Oh, I'm going to say it's here to help you guys one in one word answers from their kid.

When they say, how was your day typically say hi to her. Okay. And I said, ask your child, tell me a story about the death in the family, one word Nance. And they can say the beginning before they at school, what happened at school or on the way home? And then you can tell them, don't worry about the beds I'm here today on that day.

And so since you love questions so much, because that's how they got publicity for my book and me, like jumping into what's going on. Is he back to school? If the parents are having, you want to go to answers, it's just solution. That's my standby. You take away.

Yeah. The other example that. as I talked about both committed then will be irresistible in the middle of that Rocky, interestingly and I had said in my policies, I was like being stuck at the breading zone at work. So many sales people, can I, it all they're into the material, never bought it. And they said, Oh, can you come up with three ways?

Record your friends at work three ways to get out. And they, found in both fortunately aggregating or articles on this interview.

Do you need some more water? Okay. So what's happening right now is the election, right? It was tapping rhinos. COVID how would you parlay the stories that you have as a way to write any, a way to help more people tell better stories?

the pandemic created a problem for, especially I'm curious or people who were or catch departure between surgeries at the hospital, and now they can't wall.

So that's Devinder need, they need some help on crafting an email Carequality virtually. And if you've never had to do it, you need, I'm doing it. And then even if they get the for meeting, you're gonna know how to look. I'm good. I'm doing your lighting. Is that good? You might block good cameras that could get nervous versus in person.

So those two pieces alone have created a new need for companies to hire me, to help them work. Just those two things alone, let alone, then I often tell their stories to me.

Got it. I guess I'm asking is the way you think about it or the mental Tut, the metacognition, how a few. So if you clarifying points here, how would you, do you find as as the time one, two is then how do you find the correlation between the story that you already have in the service that you provide and so on and Savoy to, what you've found is that Can you share with us a little bit about how you think about a way to find the relevance

it's typing to people and asking them questions.

What frustrates you? Are your kids coming home from school or what's the biggest challenge of your

getting a virtual. Okay. Now I know that's a problem. Not to some other people you showed me with his team. Yes. Okay. Now we know it's not just one public external. And then from there you create a slip.

I see. And get curious as questions. What are your biggest problems? Oh, so on that note, how do you, because it's easy for them to say the obvious, right?

I'm struggling with ourselves. I want more leads. These are some of the indicators, the symptoms. How do you get you what they're really struggling with because they may not necessarily feel safe enough to share with you what they're really struggling with there. Maybe share with you some of the symptoms that's living more okay to share.

Then that makes sense. How do you get to there?

So spring another client, and then you'd say, does that sound like anything that you can relate to? And then they go, Oh yeah, we saw ourselves in this, a lot of our group silos. And they're not communicating with each other, particularly hard for us to go to a hospital or a doctor that's using one of our services and let them know we do other thing, because we don't know how to break those silos down and your time it's storytelling can do that.

Then when she did on why

Got it, the next step versus the whole shebang. And the first thing, do you mind staying on for a few more minutes for some rapid fire questions? Is that cool? Awesome. Very good. You sure you don't want to get some water? Okay. Excellent. Oh, good. Good, wonderful. So rapid fire questions. movies have shifted the way that you look at reality.

Shawshank redemption. On so many levels that we can put our body in because it's not online. we can be accused of something we didn't do and not get resentful, the concept of perseverance concept of friendship. and then he read and go through a sentence. Okay. Love people will get out of prison and they.

Miss the structure miserable. And so all those so many great lessons then.

I love it. Thank you. what's your definition of purpose?

My definition of purpose is knowing why I want to get out of bed in the morning.

Yeah, I love that. Thank you. what's your definition of fulfill it?

My definition of fulfillment is when I get feedback from people, I see a light bulb moment happen when they learned something about storytelling or they tell me that storytelling has benefited them personally, not just in a career. That really makes me feel happy.

Thank you. What's your definition of wealth?

I just initiative wealth is

beyond money, wealth of friends, wealth of health, and just the number of our bunkers of everything that allows me to create and contribute

your fault. What do you do to not take yourself too seriously?

Yeah. I, my family did that. I was working, illicitly thing as a rock and roll Drucker on helping his stories.

And, he wrote me this email and he said, Oh, you're a bad ass. Somebody who wears tattoos and sunglasses all the time. And yeah, that was never my crowd in school. And so I sent my sister that comment with the link to his website and she sent me back a painting of Bobby Brady from the Brady bunch, radically playing the drums.

stuff, me not leaving. You have to be humble.

How do you do that in a moment though, in a, in, how some servicings or the circumstances happen, how do you just, Oh, okay. It's. It's part of this impermanence, right? It's the, I think in your talk, you said the fluidity of life, how do you, when serious circumstances happen, how do you just not take it so seriously and just flow with it?

I have my five high five exercise that we need five minutes with his father, meaning five days or five weeks. I zoom out. I keep going. It's okay. I have months I've years. Usually I, then it's Oh, that's not gonna bother me in a big picture.

Thank you. Beautiful. in the last five years, what new beliefs, behavior or habit has most improved your life?

I would say the biggest thing would be stop comparing yourself. And that gives me a whole freedom of, I deserve to be here. I have, I'm going to go. You people want to pay for it. I don't have to audition or try so hard, that who I am is enough and the way people find me. All kinds of ways without me having to stress out about I'm doing everything perfectly.

That's beautiful. What is the book other than yours that you've given most as a gift and why?

I'll be the four agreements. just the one about don't date. Anything is, and then go out. Do your best. All right. Those are just, those two alone is enough to utmost people get on stuff.

I love that.

John, I wanted to take a few minutes to really acknowledge you for how you've shown up in our conversation. from the first times that we've met the first few times that we've met, what's really clear to me watching you, coaching people through their pitch. Is your sincerity to really help them unleash this idea, this desire that they so desperately want to share with the world and you do it with kindness, you do it with grace, you do it elegance, and you do it with just deep listening.

So then you are also able to articulate what they're really trying to say. And I just want you to know that from a noble warrior to another, that I see you. I see the work that you do, and the mastery that you have. In helping people uncover their story. And thank you for the work that you've done.

Thank you for the way that you're showing up in this conversation. I know that, I tend to get a little philosophical by your, what were your willingness to dance with little? This conversation is, is magnificent. So thank you so much for being here and share with your wisdom and your, story and your tactics with our audience.

My pleasure. Thanks to that acknowledgement. I think we all want to be seen and heard and acknowledged, and that's the best gift complainant you can ever give. Oh, thank you. I receive that and achieve very good.

Oh, one last thing I forgot to mention. So for guys, so for those of you who are interested or committed to actually take an action to hone their storytelling skills, go to John's website.

Go in days. Course I'm better selling com storytelling. Thanks,

John. Isn't it. A free gift for me. They've got your phone and text the word pitch TCH, or this number of six six eight six six. And I'll send you a free PDF of my pop storytelling's.

That's amazing. Thank you, John.


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