Sky Nelson-Isaacs is a theoretical physicist, speaker, author, and musician. He has a master’s degree in physics from San Francisco State University and a BS in physics from UC Berkeley.
The study of self-awareness has always been a strong interest for Nelson-Isaacs, and his background as an educator, scientist, software programmer, and speaker led him to found the Synchronicity Institute to educate, inspire and train a new generation of geek monks.
- “Living in Flow, The Science of Synchronicity and How Your Choices Shape Your World,”
- “Leap to Wholeness, How the World is Programmed to Help Us Heal, Grow and Adapt,”
- Synchronicity Institute
- LivingIn Flow Course
Wisdom QuotesSynchronicity is a serendipitous event that happened that actually helped that, you did not anticipate that actually helped you realize or actualize a desired outcome that you want. And so the context doesn't become clear until later. Click To Tweet Flow in Mihaily's terms is an optimal state that we get into psychologically where our head and our decision-making from our head and is aligned with our decision making from our body. We start to lose track of time because we're doing… Click To Tweet It's our emotions that block us from flow when we are. Feeling like resistant to something or scared, or when we're feeling angry or resentful. these things stop us from being willing and able to move forward in a way that actually helps… Click To Tweet With synchronicity, what you're controlling is the meaning of the circumstance and the experience. You can't predict or control the circumstances at all. But we can be pleasantly surprised by the types of opportunities that come to us. Click To Tweet Synchronicity is a program that helps us understand ourselves, helps us heal, grow, and adapt in the optimal way. But it happens through challenges because we have wounds that we're trying to get through. So we can get back to being more… Click To Tweet What we anticipate becomes the Apple on the tree. The apples are the expectation that we will fulfill our quest. It becomes a thing that we're targeted for as synchronicity unfolds. But we were not always aware of what we're intending. Click To Tweet The quicker I can go from grieving a frustrating situation to 'okay, what's next?' The faster I will accelerate myself. By valuing growth over accomplishment, I actually move much more quickly to success, even though I might lose this… Click To Tweet If you can have more awareness and control over what you FEEL, you can have more awareness and control over what you DO. And that leads to more success in various ways. Click To Tweet Growth is both about changing the way we think and changing the way we feel. by removing certain patterns that aren't serving us. Click To Tweet By moving in the direction of my intention, I'm increasing the likelihood of getting the experience I want because I'm moving to a part of the tree where there's more of those experiences that I want to have. The closer you get to the… Click To Tweet Keeping that momentum up means keep investing in the action. Yeah, actions that are relevant and then trusting that letting go of the attachment to a particular outcome and trusting that the one will fall in your lap at some point. Click To Tweet Quantum mechanics is a study of what the world is doing when you're not watching it. Yes. How is the world unfolding when you're not observing? What I would advise is to recognize guys that you're in this liminal space where this is… Click To Tweet It will unfold when the timing is right at some point, and in the meantime, who do you want to be? Click To Tweet Anytime you've experienced success, you've been in some kind of flow. You've been aligned with your mind and your body and your spirit to make something accomplished. Click To Tweet It's important for me to choose the job and the career that I love, not just because. It's selfish for me, but because I actually have an outsized impact when I do that, I influence other people to do that. I also influence my field most… Click To Tweet With flow and synchronicity in general, I do what I can that's consistent. Click To Tweet How we make real change in our lives is what are the things that we can do that are consistent, not what we think we should do in our heads. And we were doing to impress somebody else or prove it to ourselves, but what's, coming from our… Click To Tweet Flow is about letting go of the worry about being in control. So when you're in flow, you might take control and you might let go of control and let somebody else be in charge. It's not prescribed. And this is, why it's not easy to… Click To Tweet
Transcript By AI
Living in Choice & Synchronicity (According to a Physicist)
CK: [00:00:00] Welcome to Noble warrior. This is a place where entrepreneurs talk about what it takes to create a life of purpose, meaning joy and fulfillment. We're going to talk about mental models, actionable tactics, mindset, such that you can take everything that you learn and go out and create your own life.
[00:00:17] A purpose, meaning fulfillment.
[00:00:19] My next guest is a theoretical physicist. he's a speaker, he's an author. He's a musician is the author of living in flow and leap into leap to wholeness. And soon to be published in March, 2021 is the founder of the synchronicity Institute. He has a master degrees in physics from San Francisco state university, and a bachelor in physics in.
[00:00:44] from UC Berkeley, please help me welcome sky Nelson Isaacs.
[00:00:48] Sky: [00:00:48] Hey CK. It's great to be on the show. Thanks for having me. And it was really nice to get to know you over the past couple of months.
[00:00:54] CK: [00:00:54] Yeah. a lot of people have been on the show before we had coaches. We have had entrepreneurs, we had a musician and investors, and one topic that consistently come up over and over again is the topic of flow and synchronicity.
[00:01:10] Now we come at it from different angles, from personal experience, from the spiritual experience, from the entrepreneurial practical experience, but I've never had a theoretical physicist come on a show at actually talking about flow and synchronicity. So I'm actually personally really excited to be speaking to you because here's the thing, synchronicity in my mind, something that's out of the realm of science.
[00:01:35] So I love to talk to someone. With actual hard science background to actually have a productive conversation with
[00:01:45] Sky: [00:01:45] yeah.
[00:01:46] CK: [00:01:46] Why don't we start off from some definitions so that way people can say, Oh, okay. So that's what flow is. That's what synchronicity is. Why don't we start there? What is flow for you and what is synchronicity for you?
[00:01:59] Sky: [00:01:59] I first had my, questions about synchronicity back in my early twenties. And I had experiences that I would call spiritual growing up. Cause I was raised in a pretty spiritually minded family. And, but it wasn't until I was a mature person in my twenties when I could start to look at this through a like whole picture context and ask myself, these experiences that are I've had, like I had, I've had experiences of running into people in unexpected places and.
[00:02:31] Having it be like this, isn't likely enough to even be calculable in physics terms, it's that unlikely and, or having, opening up to the right page of a book, looking for some guidance on some issue and just opening up a book and being like, that's totally what I needed to hear. And there's, alternate explanations for these things too.
[00:02:52] but I had that same question of is the science and ultimately I. Sort of the question I ask myself, it's either a science or it's in my head, like I'm making up this connection. And so that was what I sat with for a long time. And gradually, with enough experiences started to. Presume that, it must be something that's actually really happening.
[00:03:17] There must be some way to understand the meaningfulness of these experiences and why, how they reflect what I'm thinking about and what I'm feeling in my life. And if it's science, then we must be able to explain it with science. Now it may be that science has to evolve and expand a bit. And I do think we need to expand science to incorporate this, extra spoke there's in physics.
[00:03:38] We have matter energy space and time. And this extra spoke would be meaning incorporating meaning into our fundamental description of physical reality, but meaning has another word, which is already incorporated in a physics, which is information. So it's not a big stretch. The question is, how do you establish this?
[00:04:00] How do you make it formal? And if you do. Do you have a theory? That's just a better explanation. I'm not saying it's necessarily right, exactly as it is, but is it a better explanation than the current explanation for synchronicities, which is that they're basically random chance. And if you do see meaning you're, forcing that meaning onto the situation and trying to connect the dots that aren't there.
[00:04:20] And I think that we can have a better theory than that.
[00:04:27] CK: [00:04:27] Yeah, no, that's really great. as a, scientific person, myself, it's easy because we, in our brain, we have a reticular activation system, which is the whole point of that is to look for patterns. And it's easy for us to see pattern or meaning when there isn't any, how would you define, to, make it really simple for anyone that's listening?
[00:04:54] How would you define flow and how would you define?
[00:04:57] Sky: [00:04:57] So let me start with synchronicity and the way I see it. first of all, Carl Young invented the term social, positive psychologist. No chick sent me high, was developed the field of positive psychology, young developed the field of analytical psychology and young defined, synchronicity as an a causal.
[00:05:16] Connection between two things between what you're thinking and what you experienced in the world. I'm going to be a little more specific because there's different types of synchronicities. You can have dreams, synchronicities, where you have a dream that connects to your, waking life. there's, different types.
[00:05:33] what I focus on is trying to untangle one specific way of looking at this, which is a synchronicity is a situation or experience that you have in the moment. Which becomes meaningful because it leads to another situation in the future that you're already wanting to have. So you have something that happens right now, which is it doesn't make sense.
[00:05:56] How did I bump into this person in the middle of grand central station when I've been thinking about them for weeks, but it doesn't make sense right. Then how that could have happened. And yet, later, maybe a week later you realize you needed to talk to them about a book or about a movie or about.
[00:06:13] Oh job or something like that. And so the context doesn't become clear until later. And so I look at synchronicities as events, which are happening in our lives, whose context is not clear to us. And yet it does fall within a bigger pattern that's happening in your life. And so there's this meaning that is there.
[00:06:32] So that's a synchronicity
[00:06:33] CK: [00:06:33] pause. Just, I want to underline this point real quick. So for anyone who believes in, Intention manifesting a desire outcome. Synchronicity is a serendipitous event that happened that actually helped that, you did not anticipate that actually helped you, realize or actualize a desired outcome that you want.
[00:06:56] Is that an accurate rate to reflect what you do?
[00:06:59] Sky: [00:06:59] Yep, definitely. Okay, cool. So I'll give an example. I have a friend, this is a really simple one. this friend had a ring that they had worn for many years and they couldn't remember the stone on it. It was this blue stone. And finally, one day they decided, as we do sometimes like today, I'm going to figure this out, been thinking about this for months, trying to remember this stone, I'm going to email my jeweler and ask him a picture and send it to them.
[00:07:20] So they sent off the email and they didn't hear back right away. So they went to the on with the rest of their day, which included going to get a manicure. At the manicure, she, finishes up and the manicurist asks, do you have a stamp card so we can give you credit for coming today? So the woman reaches in her purse and fumbles around and pulls out a card.
[00:07:40] And it's not the stamp card. It's the card from the jeweler. And on the back of the card has written the words, blue Topaz, which has the name of the stone. She realizes immediately. Yeah. She had written this down many years ago when she got the stone. So how did that card come to be in her purse? How did she end up at the manicurist and have the manicurist ask her to reach in our purse?
[00:07:59] That's really the synchronicity here, this small moment where she's asked to do something, which has an unrelated to her quest to find out the name of the Jewel but she goes along with it and she reaches in her person finds the answer to this other question that she's seeking. So there's the, moment when she's asked to look in her purse as this unrelated experience of, I'm going to be asked to do something I don't understand, but the context becomes clear a minute later when she pulls out the card and realizes that it answers her question.
[00:08:30] CK: [00:08:30] Beautiful.
[00:08:31] And the definition for flow.
[00:08:33] Sky: [00:08:33] So flow in Mihai chick sent me highs terms is an optimal state that we get into psychologically where our head and our decision-making from our head and is aligned with our decision making from our body. We start to lose track of time because we're doing something we love.
[00:08:49] And of course that we're doing something we love is a little vague. we're in a zone of optimal functioning where we're doing something that's hard enough to keep us interested, but not so hard that we get stuck. And so flow is something that, is very popular right now. And we can really benefit from collectively experiencing more flow because it makes us more, creative, more productive, less self-critical.
[00:09:17] more accessing and channeling the best parts of ourselves. Now, what I think is important and another way to define this in chick sent me his words is, if you think of your normal state as somewhere between trying to take control of life or enforce control and trying to let go of control, like sometimes you get frustrated with life and you say, Oh, forget it.
[00:09:40] I'm just gonna. Let it all happen. However, it happens. both of those are both extreme ends of the spectrum, but flow is not even in the middle of that. Spectrum flow is jumping out of that whole spectrum and saying, I'm going to pay attention to the fact that I'm worried in the first place about whether I'm in control or not.
[00:09:59] So flow is about letting go of the worry about being in control. So when you're in flow, you might take control and you might let go of control and let somebody else be in charge. It's not prescribed. And this is, why it's not easy to achieve just with the set of steps. You have to drop into a relationship with your experiences and with other people to figure out what's needed in the moment.
[00:10:24] So you develop a style rather than, just being in flow all the time.
[00:10:28] CK: [00:10:28] Yeah, I really like it. So in my mind, why I'm particularly interested in speaking to you and then obviously there's no quote unquote right. Answer by any discussion of this. I hope is, my, hope is that people would derive their own truth, whatever their own truth is.
[00:10:47] Okay. So here's the mental model, the, or the argument, there's the subject reality, right? Everything that I experienced in life happens within, it could be a mental image or a thoughts or emotions or physical sensations, Anything that actually happens in me. That's how I interpret it. The external reality.
[00:11:07] And then there's the objective reality, or shall we say consensus reality, right? That there's a table in front of me. People can measure it. and things like that as a, way to create some kind of consensus. So in my mind, what, you're trying to do is bridging the subjective reality, the emotions and intention to the objective reality, the external.
[00:11:34] Consensus reality. Is that a good, rough way to frame what we're discussing here?
[00:11:40] Sky: [00:11:40] Yeah.
[00:11:40] And that you just tapped into what is the key aspect of my work on getting people to experience more flow that it's that internal awareness of emotional state, because it's our emotions that block us from flow when we are.
[00:12:02] Feeling like resistant to something or scared, or when we're feeling angry or resentful. these things stop us from being willing and able to move forward in a way that actually helps us resolve our problems. So if, for instance, if there's something, if there's a conversation I am afraid to have with somebody.
[00:12:28] Because of some, grief that I have with them or with this experience in the past, and the opportunity comes up, I'm alone with them. the, fear or the, grief that I'm avoiding will come into in the way of being willing to say something and bring up this conversation. But when we look from the picture of, and this is where it comes into synchronicity in the study of synchronicity, when we look at.
[00:12:56] How do we end up resolving these, wounds from the past? how do we end up resolving these, this grief for this blockage we do. So by re-experiencing it and understanding the feelings we're having and having some new experience, which is different. So the way that we can, if we bring up this difficult subject with somebody and we have a different experience where we're, they're not defensive and they understand what we're saying, and we can resolve things.
[00:13:23] Like permanently resolved. We let go of that pattern. And that, involves being able to go with you and understand that we have a feeling that's making us resist that this, fear of grief or, whatever we're afraid of emotionally. And it's the fear of emotions that keeps us from moving forward.
[00:13:43] Fear of having certain emotions that we don't want to experience
[00:13:46] CK: [00:13:46] Yeah. I'm hundred percent agree with you. It's got here. I think the challenge that we have here is, so by the way, a hundred percent agree with you the way I think about it, subjective reality, the truth of who I am, the authentic self using your words right.
[00:14:01] Is, without, I can't remember exactly how you articulate it in your book, essentially, without this artificial lie, this artificial construct is artificial identities. So you can totally just be yourself. I remember now is without an artificial fear, right? That's the authentic reality. So the whole work that we do is to peel away the different, artificial or arbitrary, fears that we may have as a way to be open,
[00:14:36] Sky: [00:14:36] but like patterns that we've developed over time, which are not serving us necessarily, we don't even understand them.
[00:14:42] We don't see them happening, but they're unraveling constantly. Correct.
[00:14:46] CK: [00:14:46] So, that part in terms of mental model, a hundred percent there with you, I think that the challenge that I face in, number one, synchronicity. Is something that has both time and space. He doesn't happen like that right away.
[00:15:05] something, I encounter something. And then in some uncertain time, some desire outcome happened. So that in itself makes it even more complicated. Now, all of a sudden you have a multi-factorial equation here, right? Yeah. what was I going with this?
[00:15:22] Sky: [00:15:22] we were saying connecting synchronicity to those.
[00:15:26] CK: [00:15:26] Oh, I remember now I remember we announce, right? So, as a scientist, who was trying to look at this as a theory, as a system, as a systems theory, point of view, how do you quantify and measure in this thing? That's so subjective. You know what I mean? How do you, help others to quote unquote duplicate?
[00:15:47] Because this was not duplicatable. Not really science. So, you're in a paradox here. So I'm curious to know how, you
[00:15:55] go about
[00:15:56] solving it.
[00:15:56] Sky: [00:15:56] As You said synchronicities
[00:15:58] is about time and space and time and space is the realm of physics. What's beautiful about physics. Is it when you first start taking physics classes, when you're younger, you learn about time and space.
[00:16:07] That's the first thing you study. And then you do all this stuff over many years, you get your degrees. And then the most advanced people working on stuff are working on time and space. They're still trying to understand. What time and space really are. Cause we can take them for granted and we can build theories from them and to know how acceleration works relative to time and space.
[00:16:26] But we actually still haven't fully identified what time and space are. And Newton had this idea that time. Was this an undetectable, just chain like the passage through time is, unchanging. It just is what it is. Then Einstein came along and said, the faster you go and the relative speeds make a difference in the flow of time.
[00:16:49] So we've evolved our understanding of time, but we still have a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of things about it that don't quite make sense. we live in the moment. We don't have access to even 10 minutes from now, and we can remember 10 minutes ago, but we can have access to what's, 10 feet to our writer to our left.
[00:17:09] So distance is different from time in that regard. We're stuck at one place in time that we call the present. So time and space of the study of physics and synchronicities are only meaningful because they happen at the right time. I bumped into my good friend while I was traveling in Europe.
[00:17:28] This is a story. I tell him my YouTube channel, if anybody wants to listen to the whole thing. And we had been planning to meet in Greece, but I got sick and had to adjust my plans. Spontaneously went home through Paris to catch a flight home to California. And in Paris, she, got diverted to and ended up going to Paris.
[00:17:46] And we met at the Louvre museum by accident. And this is not just anybody. This is a person that ended up going on to become my wife. if we had the question, is, did we meet at that time in space on purpose or, how, does it work? That, particular moment at that particular time we were at the same place.
[00:18:06] So my, work is to study how things come together at the right time and place. The way that we can quantify that is through this model. That's, one of the simplest models in quantum mechanics of many worlds now. People might be familiar with the many worlds theory of quantum mechanics and, think about it.
[00:18:27] there are many versions of you in the world, or, in the, multi-verse and that's not the right way to think about it in my view.
[00:18:33] CK: [00:18:33] Oh, interesting. Okay. Please elaborate.
[00:18:36] Sky: [00:18:36] So the quantum mechanical wave function, the wave function is this thing in science that describes all the things you could possibly know about a system.
[00:18:44] So we don't actually know what an electron is. We know that it has a wave function that we can describe it with. And if we want to know the spin or for one another mass or of one, another position of the electron, we can measure it from the wave function and it gives us the right answer. And so we still don't know what it is exactly, but it's just.
[00:19:03] This, intermediate state between, if there's nothing there's nothing there. And if there's actually an electron there, then there's actual actually an electron, but there's this intermediate state of, okay, there's a wave function. We can query it and get a result and then we'll get something real, but it's not actually quite real in the same sense.
[00:19:22] So what the wave function does is it's constantly evolving into possibilities, branching like a tree. So if you think about a wave function as is branching tree, I usually use an Apple tree as a metaphor. And you can measure, for instance, let's say you have 10 branches on this tree, 10, 10 ways that things could go.
[00:19:43] And let's say two of those are really meaningful to have those lead to some kind of experience you're seeking to have. Let's say I'm traveling in Europe and I'm going through Paris to get home. And two of the branches. Lead to me bumping into Dana. One of them's at the loop, but another one might be at a cafe.
[00:20:02] So there's these two branches that lead to us having that experience. And there's eight other branches that lead to us, having a different experience like with not meeting. Then you can quantify that. You can say out of the 10 possibilities, two of them were meaningful and eight of them were not. So you got a 20% sort of weight factor.
[00:20:21] Pulling on those branches. And I weigh those. I marked that out with an Apple. So you put apples on the branches that have that meaningful experience, and suddenly you're able to quantify if I, the likelihood of that situation, that experience over a different situation, noting that the experience had to do with us meeting, not specifically at the loop, but in some form, because it was the internal experience I wanted to have of us talking and sharing time together and developing a relationship.
[00:20:48] That's the important thing we're after, when we talk about synchronicity, not the physical circumstances themselves, which, and this is why it's hard in science because in science, what we measure and what we are controlled experiments, we control a variable. We repeat it under that same control to get the measurement with synchronicity.
[00:21:07] What you're controlling is the meaning of the circumstance, the experience that somebody is having. And so the situation is going to show up differently every single time. You don't know if you're going to bump into someone at the loop or at a cafe or the train station, you can't predict that at all.
[00:21:21] And so there's this, is why it comes into flow because in flow, we're not predicting the world. We're not controlling the world, or we're coming into alignment with the circumstances that we have and finding ourselves surprised, but pleasantly surprised by the types of opportunities that come to us.
[00:21:38] I see.
[00:21:38] CK: [00:21:38] So you're not necessarily saying to engineer. to, lean, to, create a more favorable synchronicity point of view. It's more of a be open, right. Using a Lorax principle, be open to what's around you. you can probably tell, tell, my audience what that is and such that you can always be in or be more synchronistic in the way that you're pushed life.
[00:22:06] Is that an accurate way to articulate what your intention is?
[00:22:10] Sky: [00:22:10] Yeah. The Lorax is this process of six steps, L O R a X. Listen, that's listened to your experience, not listen to somebody, but listen to what's going on in your life. Notice it. And the second is open your mind. Oh, so a lot of times when things happen to us, we're re resistant or we eject the information because it just seems irrelevant to us.
[00:22:33] So noticing what information is coming to you and opening your mind to it saying maybe, this is useful to me. Third step is reflecting. So spend some time looking at the rest of life. This is where you look at the context of a situation you say. Oh, I'm, somebody recommended. I go see this movie.
[00:22:52] That sounds stupid. I don't want to see that movie, but I realized they mentioned it was about, cars and I've been really thinking about cars a lot. Cause I want to get more into cars and working on cars. And so with some reflection, I start to see the context of this in the rest of, within the rest of my life, the rest of the things going on for me.
[00:23:13] So listen, open, reflect, and then release. No, I have this attachment. I don't want to see this movie. I never planned to see this movie. Why would I go see it? But now I'd have some new information and I see that it actually could be useful for me. So I'm going to release my attachment to how I thought things were going to go.
[00:23:27] And I'm ready to then take action. So the action here is obviously important because it's action, which demonstrates what it is that we're really trying to achieve in life. And I think that's the, I think about the cosmos that we live in as responsive to us, it's going to respond to our actions. It's going to respond to our choices, but this action is preceded by four steps of receptivity, listening, opening, reflecting on ourselves and releasing.
[00:23:57] And so by the time we act, we are in alignment with all these other factors that we wouldn't have been in alignment with otherwise. And then the X is just a simple reminder that this is an ongoing process. So you don't quit. Don't give up one of the most powerful. tools that I use in my own life is this, non quitting, this unwillingness to, set the ball down and walk away because if I stay with it, another synchronicity will happen.
[00:24:24] Even if I've screwed up many times already, another thing will pay me, will show up and I'll start the cycle again. Listen, open, reflect, release, and act again.
[00:24:33] CK: [00:24:33] Thank you for that. That was really beautiful. Yeah. I especially loved the X. One of the things that I receive is life is not over until it's over the right.
[00:24:43] don't get off during the middle of a roller coaster ride.
[00:24:47] I'm going and series of experiments. And for me, the whole point of this is my personal spiritual belief is the whole point of it is to enjoy the ride. Yeah, because at the end, everyone is, get off the ride when this physical realm is over, it's over.
[00:25:03] So the whole point of enjoy all of it.
[00:25:06] Sky: [00:25:06] So great. Quote. it'll all be okay in the end. So if it's not okay, it's not the, yeah, there you go.
[00:25:13] CK: [00:25:13] Okay, great.
[00:25:16] Sky: [00:25:16] and I'll just say that the, I realized in writing my second book called leap to wholeness, how the world is programmed to help us heal, grow and adapt it actually.
[00:25:26] Is a book. That's all about that ex step in the Lorax process. It's all about how do we not give up? How do we recognize what we're trying to accomplish and how the world is actually supporting us in that? Even though sometimes these synchronicities can be negative, they can be challenging to us and tools for checking inside and understanding where we are along that path.
[00:25:48] So we can get up the courage to try again on whatever it is we're trying to do.
[00:25:53] CK: [00:25:53] Okay, so, 11 challenge back to you. You did say in your first book that the universe isn't a friendly place on friendly price is very neutral,
[00:26:05] Sky: [00:26:05] right?
[00:26:06] CK: [00:26:06] But what you just said now that, the universe is working for you.
[00:26:11] I like this narrative more personally for me, it's, the world isn't happening to me is happening for me, is happening through me. There's different level levels. So I'm curious to know if you can articulate that a little bit more,
[00:26:25] that for us.
[00:26:26] Sky: [00:26:26] the subtitle of this new book, it has the word programmed.
[00:26:29] The world is programmed. So let's say you have a program that you work with. You can think of anything, social media or whatever. It's not programmed to help you it's program to accomplish a certain set of tasks. And in my view, synchronicity is a program that's operating to help us understand ourselves, help us heal, grow, and adapt in the optimal way.
[00:26:51] But that happens through challenges because we have wounds that we're trying to get through so we can get back to being more authentic people. Back to who we came into this world to be. And so the program is, there to assist us in doing that work, but it's going to bring us whatever is needed to do that work.
[00:27:12] So it's going to bring us a broken down car, or it's going to bring us a failed relationship because that is necessary for us at that time to recognize the pattern that we're experiencing in our life. And I do a lot of work with, recognizing patterns cause we can. Often see the same situation showing up in our life again and again, and this is that programming it's meant to help us.
[00:27:35] It's the responsiveness of the cosmos that we live in, but it's not friendly. let me just do some work for you, so you don't have to do it, or, let me give you the easiest version of life so that, cause I love you or something like that. It's in the most, even like looking eye to eye with somebody and saying.
[00:27:56] I can help you by reflecting myself to you and then, we can help each other. So I think that the cosmos is lifting us up by, showing us who we are so we can lift ourselves up.
[00:28:08] CK: [00:28:08] I love it. Okay. So can you speak a little bit more about, okay. So, now I'm practicing the lower X principle.
[00:28:15] I'm open and reflecting. I'm taking action and doing it over and over again. I'm practices this, as, a, discipline, like, martial art and like a dojo behind my background. Yeah.
[00:28:28] Sky: [00:28:28] Yeah.
[00:28:28] CK: [00:28:28] So what, could I look forward to in terms of synchronicity and let me actually maybe phrasing it in a different way.
[00:28:39] So does that mean that I can drive my life? Towards more of my intention, intentional outcome. Is that, what that means? Or is it more of just be willing to be surprised of what fruits may, this path may take me
[00:28:59] Sky: [00:28:59] both, Steve jobs said famously that you can't connect the dots looking forward.
[00:29:02] You can only connect them. And in retrospect, looking back and you can see how your life lined up to get you where you are. He's talking about how, he ended up taking a class in calligraphy at Reed college and then dropping out of college and then ended up designing the Macintosh based on those experiences, influenced by his aesthetic.
[00:29:20] and you can only see that, chain looking backwards. I think we can look forwards and start to see the context in our experiences as they're happening. What is the bigger con I get fired from a job. Okay. It hurts. It's painful. It feels like a setback. . What is the wider context in which that is happening?
[00:29:41] Is there a pattern that I can see in my life of experiencing this kind of rejection in other places, maybe in my relationships or in other jobs? What is it that I can take from this that's actually, and this is where the university in the sense of friendly, right? Because it's actually doing this in this experience is going to help us conquer the next thing.
[00:30:00] And the next thing might be more important for us, but we'll be more informed to be able to do it in a different way. Jump out of our cycles and try something different because we understand our patterns, our emotional patterns, maybe I'm being too bossy at work. And that just keeps showing up in all these ways.
[00:30:16] And it shows up in my relationships and gradually through enough experiences of difficulty, I start to touch into the grief that I feel that's making me bossy and start to develop more authentic, deeper relationships. And that affects my personal relationship. It affects my job experiences as well. So we're, growing through these processes and the experiences are there simply as a background, like props on a stage to help us experience these things.
[00:30:47] So it comes back to what I, think of as experience, we're here to experience things that will help us grow. And the physical situations that show up in our life are just there to make that happen. Now, the way I look at synchronicity, you talked about intention, I think. I want to get a little, dig a little bit deeper into that, what his intentions are.
[00:31:07] Are we always aware of what our intentions are? I might be thinking I'm offering some helpful advice to somebody. And I realize later in re reflection, why were they defensive? When I gave them advice, I was just trying to help, but maybe my intention was actually that I was worried about their safety or worried about their, choices.
[00:31:26] And so I was actually undermining them in some way and they felt that, but I couldn't see that in the moment. So we're not always aware of what our intentions really are. I liked the word, the phrase I use in the book is
[00:31:41] CK: [00:31:41] anticipated qualitative experience,
[00:31:43] Okay. That's a mouthful.
[00:31:45] Sky: [00:31:45] Yeah. There's a simpler way to phrase it. Expectation.
[00:31:51] expectation is something you're anticipating. And it's the experience that you're anticipating. Yeah. So I'm anticipating the experience of feeling safe and connected to my partner, or I'm anticipating the experience of, having to defend myself at work or I'm anticipating the experience of drinking coffee and tasting that and feeling that energy we're constantly, while we're doing in life is experiencing and we're constantly anticipating or expecting what's going to what we're going to experience next.
[00:32:21] I think that's the way our neurology works. And so my, way of phrasing this is that what we anticipate. In this way becomes the thing, the Apple on the tree. It becomes a thing that we're, targeted for as synchronicity unfolds. And so if we're anticipating being criticized at work, let's say it's going to inform our choices and we're going to do things which defend ourselves and, maybe, make choices to.
[00:32:50] Go get extra help from some on something we don't need. And then we find there. So I was put in a situation where we do get criticized and there's this sort of dynamic that I don't fully understand, but I see it in my life a lot where I'm actually anticipating a negative experience. And then I do things to, bring that about.
[00:33:06] And then I experienced that. So
[00:33:10] CK: [00:33:10] what's the difference between intention and expectation? Again, from your point of view,
[00:33:15] Sky: [00:33:15] it's really about what we're aware of. . there really is no difference, but the, in both cases, I'm trying to highlight the fact that we were not always aware of what we're expecting, what we're intending.
[00:33:31] And there was this underlying programming that we have, which is informing our choices that we're not aware of. Innocent. Maybe undermining us. Got
[00:33:41] CK: [00:33:41] it. Yeah, thank you. I really love the trio of possibility analogy and metaphor. The way I see it, came through the same, metaphor actually is, the fruit of what we desire and there are different domains, physicality, emotionality, relationships, the important domains of life, money, and parenting and all these beautiful things that we all as human beings want.
[00:34:08] And then the, what fuels. The growth or the particular tract is one my definition, intentionality as well as emotions. So I'm curious to know from your perspective, how do you go about choosing different tracks? Because different tracks may have different probabilistic outcome, And, how do you fuel.
[00:34:35] The intentionality that, what is it when you call it the anticipated qualitative experiences using your words?
[00:34:43] Sky: [00:34:43] I'm not sure. Let me answer what I understand you to be asking around tracks. each of us is multilayered and complex and we have, personal life and we have a professional life and we have, health life and, hobbies.
[00:34:57] And I think that part of the challenge of. That flow helps us address is how do we become healthy or authentic in each of these areas? So for some of us, it's easy to focus on work to the exclusion of other things. And that might be because we have history in the past of being like, I'm comfortable or I'm comfortable at work comfortable with what I'm learning there.
[00:35:29] And I'm not comfortable opening up more at home and relaxing. And that's, just something we're carrying from our upbringing or from our, how we've trained ourselves to be. But maybe we can benefit from diving into a little bit more of that vulnerability at home and, spending some time, some unstructured time with someone in our family that is a little uncomfortable because we're not used to it, but it's actually very fulfilling or it could be the other way around, maybe we're.
[00:36:01] We're very used to being focused on home, but actually devoting ourselves to something that we care about it and professionally, and sacrificing for that might feel scary. And so I think that the, a really big benefit of practicing flow, practicing tools that gets you into flow and noticing the synchronicities in your life is that you'll start to see synchronicities, which are highlighting new paths for you.
[00:36:29] New paths to explore. And these paths are part of you, right? You're not, they're not like out there in the world. They're part of who you are, came to be in a sense they exist in you as past, maybe somebody keeps bringing up the idea that you should do more art and you, keep thinking, not going to do art.
[00:36:48] That's a waste of time or something like that. But then eventually you start to tune into, Oh yeah. When I was a kid, I used to, draw all the time and I forgot about that. And so there's this part of you that is actually wanting to. Have a little more attention, a little more expression, and that could actually contribute something to your life and to the world.
[00:37:06] And synchronicities will show up to clue you in that direction. So this openness, this listen to the experience, listen to this surprising experience and open yourself to it and then reflect on. Yeah.
[00:37:18] CK: [00:37:18] And so, let's zoom in on that particular decision where you just described right now, what is, what are you advising our audience to focus on?
[00:37:29] In making a decision. Cause one may say, let me just focus. I'm just making things up, right? Me, let's, optimize for revenue. Let's optimize for status. That's optimized for power, et cetera, Versus that's optimized for this experience of fulfillment and joy and playfulness. Yeah. So if you can zoom in on that particular decision.
[00:37:57] What, do you want the audience to focus on the internal
[00:38:02] Sky: [00:38:02] That's a good question.
[00:38:06] There's an exercise I do in the new book called the argue process. Argh. Yeah. Like the pirate when you're really frustrated. You want to say ARG a R G H
[00:38:17] a R G H. Okay.
[00:38:20] And okay. This process is except your situation. It's what happens when you, say Argh, ah, why did this happen to me again?
[00:38:31] Why is this person behaving this way? Or why am I experiencing this same situation again? So accepting the situation that you're in and then recognizing the pattern ours for recognize.
[00:38:50] When you recognize the pattern, you're opening yourself up to learning from the experience saying, ah, maybe I have a role to play in this situation because it keeps happening to me. And if it's really powerful, when we can start to see the things in common between our frustrating experiences. And, so in, the context of this decision about, being reminded about a part of you that likes to do art or wants to spend more time with your family, you might see yourself consistently having difficult experiences in your relationships and, ignoring it.
[00:39:35] But at this point, you're you've got enough frustration and pain in that part of your life, where the relationships don't work out. Or there's a, lot of conflict in the relationship that you recognize the pattern and you S ay yeah, I'm playing a role here because my total Uber focus on my work life, for instance, or whatever it is I'm obsessed with is actually taking away from this other part of me.
[00:39:58] And I recognize that this other part of me is important. Because I'm spending a lot of time in this part of my life being frustrated or in our having conflict. So yeah, if you're not feeling frustrated by parts of your life, then you're great, but by being willing to recognize where you're frustrated life, and then start to practice these things, you can start to see the patterns that are, might be common across these areas.
[00:40:24] So once you recognize it, you've accepted the situation, you recognize the pattern then, Growth is the G valuing growth over accomplishment. And this is, I think that's something that's really important. And it ties back into that emotional resilience or emotional intelligence. It's hard to value growth when we're attached to winning and what was got a bottom line that we have to meet at all costs.
[00:40:50] It's hard to value. this is a good learning experience, but in my experience, I'm going to win some and lose some. And the fastest way to accelerating myself is to learn from each experience. And that means letting go of the accomplishment, the quicker I can go from grieving a frustrating situation to moving through that and being like, okay, what's next?
[00:41:17] How can I try this again? The faster I will accelerate myself. So by valuing growth over accomplishment, I actually move much more quickly to success, even though I might lose this battle that I'm in right now. And from this having recognized the pattern.
[00:41:32] CK: [00:41:32] Sorry, pause. When you say growth, do you mean the internal growth?
[00:41:36] The realization, the breakthroughs, the overcoming, whatever internal barriers. Is that what you mean?
[00:41:42] Sky: [00:41:42] Yeah.
[00:41:42] CK: [00:41:42] What are you when When you say growing, implies, measuring to what I'm the status quo, Versus accomplishing. Because in my mind they are very, similar. So if we can articulate what. What do you measure when you grow?
[00:41:57] That would be really great. It's
[00:41:59] Sky: [00:41:59] actually
[00:42:00] the reduced number of artificial patterns and behaviors that you're imposing on your life, that reduce number of, what's the, word for it? obsessions or, things that you do that you're compelled to do that you don't need to.
[00:42:18] So let's say you always apologize to people, And you're, you make a mistake and you apologize, or you do something well and somebody critiques it for in some way. And you apologize that, that's a habit that we can take up. we're doing it maybe because we're trying to protect ourselves because when we were younger, somebody would criticize us.
[00:42:35] Or we thought that was the safest thing was to apologize. growth in this case would be recognizing we're in a situation where we want to apologize, understanding that we don't need to. And. Seeing that pattern showing up all over our life and then not doing it. So growth would mean removing this, behavior that's getting in our way.
[00:42:57] Got it.
[00:42:57] CK: [00:42:57] Thank you for that. That's actually very helpful because in my mind, my, logical mind says, Oh, they're very, similar. Yeah. So I appreciate that. Thank
[00:43:05] Sky: [00:43:05] Yeah.
[00:43:07] that, illustrates the healing as well, because when you remove that behavior, that's getting in your way, you've healed it.
[00:43:15] You're no longer compelled. To respond to this hidden feeling. I think these hidden feelings, it's important to identify. We walk around feeling things that we don't know.
[00:43:26] CK: [00:43:26] Yeah. You know what just, I'll let you get to H in a moment, I just want to quick interjection real quick, most high achievers. Would they come to me and say, Hey, CK, I want to get to the next level.
[00:43:41] And their strategies. What could I add?
[00:43:44] Sky: [00:43:44] New
[00:43:44] CK: [00:43:44] tools, technologies, knowledge, relationships, projects, companies, whatever. Maybe what could I add the fastest way from my point of view, giving personal experience as well as coaching others actually is to reduce, the mental chatters, especially reduce the mental constructs of what the world should be versus being in reality.
[00:44:09] And just being open and okay. At any quantum is, what's happening right now. The fastest way to exponential growth for my personal experience is to reduce internal chatters. Then you roast these stuff we
[00:44:24] Sky: [00:44:24] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:25] That's what mindfulness is about. Yeah. And mindfulness has become much more well-known recently in the mainstream for a good reason.
[00:44:32] I'm really happy about that. Please. I'll I'll say maybe we can come back to this. Yeah. My next book leap to wholeness is about the science of filters. Filters are, if you think, if you go skiing with goggles that have like orange filters, they're filtering out the orange lights and the light, the orange light bounces off them and everyone else can see it.
[00:44:55] That's why they look orange. But what gets to your eyes is everything, but the orange, so filtering is our act of removing something from a signal. A data signal or whatever, and giving you everything else about that. And so I look at the science of filters. We use it all the time in audio and video processing and how it's about starting with something that's completely full of noise and removing the part you don't want.
[00:45:23] And what comes through is a meaningful signal and in the same way, our lives. Are cluttered with noise, all these voices and emotions and expectations and programs from our past experiences. And what we're doing with this work is filtering out those things that no longer serve us. One other way to look at those filters, which I think is really important is to also see that as a person who has these emotions and these, ideas about life, these belief structures, we are filtering information all the time.
[00:45:58] So like I'm filtering your, facial expressions through my own perceptive apparatus and deciding what I think you're feeling. And then responding to that. And I do that with everybody. That's just the way we interact. And so if those filters inside of us are warped or, it's, known, there's actually research.
[00:46:17] That's been done that we project our emotional state onto other people, by assuming that they feel like we feel, and this is of course not going to be accurate a lot of the time. And so it causes difficulties in relationship in, interactions and communication.
[00:46:35] CK: [00:46:35] since you open a loop, I want to close it.
[00:46:37] So what is some of the ways the practices that one they have since you're writing a book about it, to remain as open as possible, being as objective as possible, rather than projecting my own emotion onto others. From your point of view?
[00:46:50] Sky: [00:46:50] I think we have to see and understand what our filter is. You can't, get through it or around it, or let it go until you understand.
[00:46:59] Yeah. I'm processing information in this way. I'm seeing everything that my spouse says as a criticism and I'd done that forever. And so I just, I assume that's true, but that's actually a pattern in myself. So by, doing practices, like the one we talked about. Except your situation, except, when you feel criticized, recognize the pattern, see that you feel criticized a lot value, growth over accomplishment.
[00:47:32] So accomplishment in this case would be like arguing and B being right. Like I'm going to let go of being right with my spouse. And instead I'm going to value that I'm going to learn something about myself here. And then, and I'm going to let myself be criticized, but I'm going to heal by seeing that this pattern is happening and I can let it go.
[00:47:51] I no longer need to take it personally, when I'm told, you didn't empty the dishwasher when I asked you to, or it might be so letting go of those patterns, we have to recognize them first. And then we can start to let them no, those filters that clog up our exception and, way down our communications.
[00:48:13] let me
[00:48:13] CK: [00:48:13] do a quick recap and then I'll get into more synchronicity if you don't mind. So a R G H accept, recognize growth and
[00:48:22] Sky: [00:48:22] heal
[00:48:24] CK: [00:48:24] there's a beautiful practice to allow me to be more open to, new synchronicity synchronicities in my life. So you're essentially teaching a lot of these type of.
[00:48:37] I would say spiritual type principles as a way to help people to be more open and then guide them towards more, synchronicity. So it'd be more, open to synchronicities. Yeah.
[00:48:49] Sky: [00:48:49] Yeah. And, I love that you call them spiritual. Cause all I've really talked about is emotional intelligence. And I do think of it as spiritual, but even if you don't think of it as spiritual, you can recognize the importance of emotional intelligence of understanding what you feel every day and how that impacts what you do.
[00:49:07] And if you can have more awareness and control over what you feel, you can have more awareness and control over what you do. And that leads to more success in various ways.
[00:49:16] CK: [00:49:16] Yeah, actually let's if you don't mind, let's explore that topic a little bit. And this is a so credit inquiry. So this is something I'm curious about in my mind, emotional intelligence, as well as the whole question about spirituality for me.
[00:49:34] The pro the path may be different, but the outcome is that we feel better. So to me, they're almost synonymous. they're like they overlap with each other quite significantly, actually. So for you, what, is the distinction of the two and then what may be the, destination.
[00:49:55] Sky: [00:49:55] I, to me, they're part of the same thing.
[00:49:57] And I think, we, I think a lot of people stick with spiritual practice as like looking outside themselves for meaning or for the idea of God. And the big breakthrough in my life has been recognizing that my own emotional blind spots are the things that my spiritual practice is leading towards.
[00:50:21] My meditations are leading me to be more aware of my emotional blind spots, my places where I'm weak and wounded and hurt and reactive. And so I think that they're tied together. And then if we stay in the spiritual, which might be more of a heady thing, like how do I make sense of my life in a spiritual way, then we don't dive into what we're feeling.
[00:50:41] Then I think we're bypassing the actual growth. The growth is both about changing the way we think and changing the way we feel. by removing certain patterns that aren't serving us.
[00:50:55] CK: [00:50:55] I like that. if you don't mind, I'll share my personal interpretation of what we're talking about here. So maybe if I look at the frame of macro, and micro, emotional intelligence is of a personal practice, how do I manage the micro, the subjective reality within me?
[00:51:16] And, spirituality is more of the macro, right? What's my relationship to the greater universe that Cosmo thinks an N for me, it is once I have my own, awakening moments through plant medicine, ceremonies and whatnot, then I realized like, Oh, I don't need to fight for survival. Have a greater experience with a macro.
[00:51:42] And then again, the outcome is that I'm calmer. I'm more relaxed. I don't need you to constantly try to figure out where do I stand and how do I navigate this around this great Neo macro universe? Here's to know your thoughts.
[00:52:00] Sky: [00:52:00] I agree. I think one of the really beneficial things about having a view on this bigger, these bigger questions.
[00:52:12] What is the universe? Why are we here? What is space and time? Because if we take these things for granted, yeah, they just exist, then it feels like we're just stuck in our little, small little life. And our problems seem really big and intractable. And we're S we find ourselves fighting for survival.
[00:52:29] But if you, start to look at what the cosmos really is and ask some of these bigger questions, like. How is it that, we can constantly be expanding our sense of our estimate of how many stars and there are in the galaxy and how many galaxies there are in the cosmos and start to come to realize that there's more galaxies in the cosmos than we can count.
[00:52:47] And, what does that even mean? We, and actually one of the amazing things about the work I'm doing in my second book is, understanding. This realm of description that we call the frequency domain, where there is no time in space whatsoever. If you look at a music file, you have an audio file with music.
[00:53:11] in, regular time, you hear music in the frequency domain. There's no time. You just see the frequencies all lined up in a pattern. So there's a way of describing the world without space and time. This is a very deep subject and it should inspire a sense of awe and wonder that breaks us out of our current worldview, whatever that is that might be constricted.
[00:53:34] And so I think a sense of awe and wonder at the cosmos is really useful for getting us out of our insecurities and out of the things that are limiting us from taking a risk in our life. And saying, Oh, I don't have to fight for my survival. And this is one thing that synchronicity and awareness of this process can do.
[00:53:53] If you trust that synchronicities will occur in your life. When you have an opportunity to go for something, you'll, say instead of that'll never work, you'll say, okay, if I take the first steps and do the preparation, the next step will become evident. If I know how to look for it. How to moderate my own inner reactions and emotions and look for what's the next step.
[00:54:19] I'll see it. And so it breeds a sense of faith or trust that's based on really just a process of events that happen in the world physically.
[00:54:31] CK: [00:54:31] I love it. So I'm going to wear now wear the hat of, being a, very cognitive head heady guy now, analyst asking you this question. Okay. So let me tax rises a little bit.
[00:54:45] So nothing to lab famously wrote a book on black Swan and he wrote a number of, I don't know if you know who that is. Yeah. Okay. So he, has this very simple methodology called a barbell strategy as a way to help him optimize for. Return on investment. And what that means is you would say, all right, so I'm going to allocate 10%, 20%, whatever percentage to something that he thinks has an expected value of 10 X return of his investment.
[00:55:16] And the rest would then be, something that's safer, something, like an index fund, something like that lower return, but. Still predictable. So that way he CA he go for the upside as well as covering downside, that gives him, in the entire portfolio, a nice predictable outcome. Yeah.
[00:55:38] with synchronicity, the approach that you have, I love it. It's, saying I'm willing to take the first step without knowing what the expected outcome may be and willing to take that step. And that's the way I live my life. So I'm curious to know, comparing to you when you give your students, the methodology to live a more synchronous life.
[00:56:08] Do you even concern yourself with expected outcome?
[00:56:14] Sky: [00:56:14] And that's a good question,
[00:56:17] CK: [00:56:17] or is it just listening to the internal, knowing the internal wisdom, the higher self. It could be a good thing. Let me just go for it. Take the first step and the next and the next and live in the present moment, rather than trying to project forward.
[00:56:33] What the expected outcome may be 10 X or two X or whatever.
[00:56:38] Does that make sense?
[00:56:39] Sky: [00:56:39] There's two things I want to answer there. One is about the 10 X investment. I'll come back to that. The other is about, it's not a simple process of, I should just quit my job and go for this thing because it didn't work out.
[00:56:57] it's this very narrow passageway of committing to a new path and following what you need to do in order to get there. and so I've made the mistake of being overly risky and. Having plans fall apart because I didn't plan well enough and I didn't, take the opportunities that arrived. it's just, I think we have to refine who we are inside so we can really make use of the opportunities to come.
[00:57:24] And it comes back to over and over again in my life, whether I'm responding to fear or really acting from a place of courage and excitement. So if I'm from responding to fear by not leaving a situation that doesn't work for me, I'm going to make it hard to experience synchronicities, which move my life forward.
[00:57:44] Cause I'm, acting out of this fear of sticking with what's safe. And the other hand, if I'm, if I just radically jump and change my life, all of a sudden I might also be reacting to a fear like, Oh, midlife crisis in my life is not going where I want it to go. I just have to drop everything. And then I'm still bypassing the necessary steps to grow.
[00:58:05] don't have these answer.
[00:58:06] CK: [00:58:06] I'm so glad that you're talking about this because in my mind, it's, a narrow path, right? maybe an analogy would be in a narrow bridge, right?
[00:58:16] Sky: [00:58:16] Yeah.
[00:58:17] CK: [00:58:17] Too much. The left. No good too much. The right. So there's a middle way. That's harmonious. That's what will lead you towards the life that you desire.
[00:58:26] Sky: [00:58:26] yeah. And flow, like I said earlier, and chick sent me highs. Words is about jumping out of that. Spectrum of control and surrender. It's not like you need to just surrender to life and go with the flow. Not at all. It's about recognizing that when you're having that debate with yourself, should I take charge here?
[00:58:46] Should I let go? Should I leave? Should I stay? It's about trying to maintain control for the purpose of probably dealing with anxiety. There's something you're worried about that you're trying to fix. And so that's where it comes back to. Okay. How do I address this anxiety or this worry in a new way? How do I jump out of this experience of, trying to control it and, transcend that and be in relationship.
[00:59:12] So that might mean staying in my job for a while, and then, but eventually seeing a way to transition or it might mean staying in this relationship and taking some really difficult steps of conversations I've never had before. And these are the really difficult aspects. And I think that if we really follow a flow, it's going to challenge us in all the difficult ways.
[00:59:30] it knows what's, hard for us and it's going to lead us there.
[00:59:35] CK: [00:59:35] Yeah. personally for me, the two gauges that I follow is one was my intention slash purpose. what is it that I want to create? And then to what, how do I, what's the flow, right? What's my emotion. How emotion cause emotions, the fuel that energizes my intention.
[00:59:55] So how do I feel about it? Do I feel really shitty right now? Or do I, am I feeling excited and alive, even though it may be hard as an example. So follow that. So those are some of the simplistic ways that I can reduce. So that way I can navigate rather otherwise it's way too complicated of a multi-factorial equation
[01:00:16] Living in Choice & Synchronicity (According to a Physicist): [01:00:16] for
[01:00:16] Sky: [01:00:16] me to even do it.
[01:00:19] Yeah. I, do find that what you said really resonates for me. excitement, as a key reframing of fear. we're given this life to live and we get caught up in all the things we might do wrong that might go wrong. We're worried about, but to really honor the fact that we're alive and appreciate, on a given day, a lot could be going wrong for me.
[01:00:42] And yet I live in a prosperous country where I have freedom to go out and do things and I can run a business and I can. Do all sorts of things. I have privileges in this culture. I'm a white man. I can do a lot of things that are I take for granted and on any given day, just those very facts can lift me up and make me go, okay, what's next?
[01:00:59] I'm excited to take on whatever's next. I might've screwed this thing up in my personal life, but I've got a lot going for me. I'm going to take that in and see what can I do next? How can I contribute to the next step of my life in a positive way?
[01:01:12] CK: [01:01:12] Yeah, no, I love that. So there's that spine that you have in trusting having faith in your own capability, having faith in your own direction and courageously moving forward.
[01:01:24] Sky: [01:01:24] Yeah. I love that. Yeah.
[01:01:27] CK: [01:01:27] in your book and your first book, you famously had a sub chapter about, I can't remember exactly how you articulate it. Let's see if I can find it right. You can't have flow without problems. So once more thought around flow is, Hey, if I'm encountering problems, it must not be my destiny.
[01:01:49] I should stop and find something that's easier so I can flow better.
[01:01:54] I'm with you for, me, it's not about having a quote unquote, easy life. It's about having a fulfilling life. Even when it's hard, even when it's challenging, because for me, I'm a, hence the name of the podcast and the warrior.
[01:02:10] It's about leaning to one's discomfort in for the sake of growth in South actualization. So if he can underline that a little bit, it may be arguing for or against, this person who thinks, Hey, is too hard. it shouldn't be this hard if I'm truly on purpose, if I'm truly in flow, it should be easy.
[01:02:32] Sky: [01:02:32] Let me tell the story that ties back into Nasim until they book too. I bought the 10 X thing, the investment of 10 X portfolio into the high, stakes stuff, and then keeping the rest of it safe. in short, my experience is that life has asking me for a commitment in a direction in order to bring me then the needed steps.
[01:02:54] So the safe path of like I'm going to invest 10% of my time in this new. New hobby and the rest of my time, 90%, I'm gonna focus on doing all the normal stuff is not the thing. That's going to take me to another level in that hobby. and so let me illustrate that with a story. I was working for a software company and, experiencing the urge to do the things I'm doing now, writing and teaching and.
[01:03:26] And was driving home one day and asking myself, I had a pretty good situation that the software company I wasn't working full-time I was making enough money to live. And, I had a family. Yeah. And I was asking myself, should I leave though, in order to pursue this, thing that I've been doing research into synchronicity for 15 years at that point.
[01:03:46] So it wasn't new. It was something I really wanted to do. I want to go back and research this more. I want to spend more time speaking about it. And in the car I called my coach and with the coach, I argued for myself that, I really didn't have any obstacles right now stopping me from doing those things.
[01:04:02] So I could stay in the job. There was no conflict. It wasn't like I was being offered a chance to do something for my speaking or my book, but I was too busy at work. Like I could do both. And so I decided I argued myself into this state of I can do both. I'm just going to wait and see, that week.
[01:04:20] That following week at work, a good friend of mine left things got shaken up quite substantially, a good friend left as a result, someone else was let go. And we had vacancies started in the leadership and it was a lot of change that suddenly happened. And then I was asked to step into one of those leadership roles and it was exciting.
[01:04:42] I had never thought about doing that. And so I, said, yes, for the next year I find myself working a lot. And I was busy and I was in this role of just learning and growing and investing in this job. And I wasn't doing those other things that before I had some time for, so I chose to wait and see and do both and invest 10% of my time in the thing I loved and the other 90% at work.
[01:05:07] And that ended up turning into a situation where I had to invest 110% at work. And it wasn't until a year later when things, I would say weren't flowing or they were, flowing in a direction that I knew I didn't want to go anymore, getting more and more intense. And in ways that I could, control less and less that I decided this was evidence for me that I didn't need to choose carefully what I wanted to do with my life.
[01:05:30] And that was the point at which I chose to leave the job and ended up going back to grad school and getting a degree and that all worked out. with little breadcrumbs along the way to help me make that transition. So I'm not sure if I touched into the question, which you would remind me what the question here was.
[01:05:47] That's not seem to leaves work.
[01:05:54] CK: [01:05:54] Oh, You cannot flow without problems.
[01:05:56] Sky: [01:05:56] Yeah. Yeah.
[01:05:57] CK: [01:05:57] Yeah. So
[01:05:59] Sky: [01:05:59] there was some problems there, I, I. I experienced problems, which helped me understand the challenge that I was at, the choices that I was making. I experienced a greater sense of responsibility, a situation with a client that I couldn't control and more problems, which helped me understand what it is that I really wanted and finally make that choice to, change.
[01:06:21] So problems can help us make the choice to change and whether it's our job or whether it's the way that we look at the world or whether it's our relationship, problems help us. Recognize ways that don't work and find new ways to do work. Yeah.
[01:06:37] CK: [01:06:37] I love reframing certain things. So your problems are not problems.
[01:06:44] Your problems actually are the blessings that actually is helping you Wellington and the next phase of who you are. So I love that. Thank you. Okay. So, that's how you will respond to someone who was saying. It's too hard. It shouldn't be this hard. I should find something that's easier if I'm truly in flow.
[01:07:05] Is that how you will respond to that person?
[01:07:08] Sky: [01:07:08] I would say it depends. in my case, when it got hard at work, it was hard in a way that I didn't really want to experience, like I wasn't looking to become better at these things. And so when I was tasked with becoming better at these things and they didn't really line up with what I wanted for myself, that wasn't.
[01:07:27] A reason that didn't give me a reason to stay. It felt like the right thing to leave in another situation where I'm being forced to do something that it's uncomfortable, but I can check in and realize that this is something I really want for myself. Then I would advise in at least in my own life, I've tried to stick with those things and do that
[01:07:46] CK: [01:07:46] growth.
[01:07:48] Yeah. Okay. new, new, topic. You had talked about symbolic momentum when it comes to finding flow and finding synchronicity. Can you speak a little bit more about that? Symbolic momentum?
[01:08:06] Sky: [01:08:06] Symbolic momentum can be pictured as this Apple tree. We started talking in the beginning about an Apple tree of, choices that we make branch.
[01:08:15] Each branch has a different choice or a different set of experiences that unfolds and the apples are those experiences, which. Line up with a certain anticipated experience or expected expectation that we have when we make choices with something in mind, you have an intention, say we're looking for a new job and we make choices to revise our resume.
[01:08:42] We spend a week looking at a resume carefully going through it carefully, sending it out for feedback. that's Essentially setting targets on this tree, sending apples up on this tree on experiences in which that resume well, how do I put it? It's targeting those experiences in which we're successful at what we're trying to accomplish and our intention.
[01:09:05] So revising our resume is simply an act that illustrates our intention to be successful at getting a job. So the apples that get placed on the tree are those in which we have success. Or we feel success in that search. It may be maybe getting the job that we have in mind, or maybe getting a different job, or it may be realizing we don't want a job and we want to be a stay at home parent, but it's the apples are the expectation that we will fulfill our quest.
[01:09:34] So the branches of the tree that in which we fulfill our quest are the ones that get the apples. Now, those are. Spotted throughout the tree, right? Of all the choices we can make. It's hard. It's hard to know how we're going to get to the outcome we want. So if there's a part of the tree that has a lot of apples, it would be nice to get in that direction, on the tree so that we can experience those fulfillments and.
[01:10:03] By investing ourselves by, revising our resume by sending it out to a number of people. By going to job interviews, by talking to friends and neighbors about looking for work. These are all things that are, highlighting the same apples. They keep saying the apples I want are this experience of fulfillment with my, job.
[01:10:22] And gradually that moves me closer and closer to this part of the tree with more apples. And On day one, I might be at the bottom of a tree that has, apples that sort of spread out, by, on day seven. I might be over here on this part of the tree where there's a lot more apples. And if I go back again to what we did earlier of counting the branches and saying, now there's eight branches and four of them have apples.
[01:10:47] I've got a 50% chance of getting a fulfillment. Whereas before I might've had 20 branches and only four of them had apples. And so that's like a 20% chance or something like that. So by moving in the direction of my intention, I'm increasing the likelihood of getting the experience I want because I'm moving to a part of the tree where there's more of those experiences that I want to have.
[01:11:11] CK: [01:11:11] I see the closer you get to the branch that has apples, the higher, the probabilistic outcome is that's essentially what you're saying. So he takes we'll take the first step you made there. There may be. a different path and then take the next step. Maybe you four different paths, then the next step after that, maybe two paths.
[01:11:31] And then now all of a sudden you have a 50, 50 chance to get the Apple that you want. That's what you're saying.
[01:11:37] Sky: [01:11:37] Yeah. And you may not realize you've built all this momentum, right? You might've, been working on, get trying to get the job for six months. You're starting to get frustrated and lose energy.
[01:11:45] You've sent out resumes, you've done interviews and you don't realize that you're actually surrounded by a bunch of apples that are likely to come true soon. If you keep the momentum up and momentum and physics is this idea that once something's in motion, it keeps moving in that same motion unless you stop it.
[01:12:02] So this comes back to developing a practice of action, staying with the action of whatever that looks like investing in training for myself, or sending out resumes or talking to people about work and keeping that momentum up means keep investing in the action. Yeah, actions that are relevant and then trusting that letting go of the attachment to a particular outcome and trusting that the one will fall in your lap at some point.
[01:12:33] CK: [01:12:33] Yeah, it was a famous quote, but go ahead,
[01:12:36] Sky: [01:12:36] finish your thought. See it, because we might be attached to it looking a certain way, but actually the opportunity that comes is not at that company. We're thinking about it's at this other place or with this other person that we hadn't even considered.
[01:12:49] CK: [01:12:49] Yeah. Okay.
[01:12:51] So, I love that I am a man of action. There was a famous quote. I can't remember exactly how it goes. He essentially is saying that the it's not about taking massive action because oftentimes you can take massive action. We're running very enthusiastic, asically towards the wrong direction. So how would you advise someone's, as a gut-check as a, sanity check that they're not just.
[01:13:19] Taking massive action, but they're going down the wrong direction.
[01:13:22] Sky: [01:13:22] This is why it's so important to see flow as not just an external thing, trying to accomplish things, trying to overcome your challenges, trying to masculinize it like a conquer things, but also as this sort of maybe more receptive or feminine, just to use those words, aspect of receptivity of understanding what you're feeling and how that's influencing your choices.
[01:13:48] I think that we can, I'm not sure what I want to say about that. It comes back to, knowing ourselves and if we know ourselves, then we'll be taking action. Like in the Lorax process, listen, open, reflect and release that helps us know ourselves. And then from there, the action that comes is more aligned with both ourselves and what we really want.
[01:14:16] And also with the circumstances outside of us.
[01:14:20] CK: [01:14:20] Yeah. I guess what I'm cause let me use another metaphor they use in your book. Use a metaphor of acorn is their acorn, anyways, a tree, right? I see that you planted before the tree starts to get Rudy and, blossom. There's a period between getting planted and actually started to get rooted and blossom and sprouted and.
[01:14:42] And grow into an Oak tree, right? Yeah. So that is so when the, sprouts is going, that's quote-unquote traction. So there's a little bit of a faith between being planted to sprouting. So that period is what I'm talking about. How, does one discern. Something is happening. You just don't see, you can see the evidence of it yet versus you're going down the wrong direction is essentially what I'm trying to articulate.
[01:15:12] Sky: [01:15:12] Yeah. I think that in my experience, that is where the doubt comes in.
[01:15:22] think about the quantum mechanics. If I was to explain it in the simplest terms, quantum mechanics is a study of what the world is doing when you're not watching it. Yes. How is the world unfolding when you're not observing? So the way I want you to think about your experiences is like a fence and there's fence posts in the ground everywhere every so often.
[01:15:43] And in between the fence posts, what, there's this empty space with just a string or wire, the fence posts are your actual experiences. Those are the things, those are the things that you can. No for sure. You actually witnessed and you actually experienced everything else is uncertain. And now the normal way of thinking is that everything else that happens in between my observations is unknown to me, but it happens like what's the world doing when I'm not looking well, it's still happening.
[01:16:13] But what quantum mechanics really is saying, at least at the particle level, is that in between those measurements, we make it's unfolding into all the possibilities, like a tree. It's not actually in one of them. And so there's this sort of liminal space of uncertainty or, possibility, which isn't like our regular world.
[01:16:36] And I want your listeners to think about their lives also in the same way. What you're observing right now is what you can say is reality. This is the fence post it's, not until the next fence posts that I'm going to be able to S to say what I know for sure. like I sent off that resume. That's a fence post, right?
[01:16:55] I know I've sent it. I might get an email back saying, Hey, we received this. Thank you for sending it. That's a fence post. I know for sure in between that. And the next interaction is this space that I don't know what to do with. And my tendency might be to feel like, they're taking too long to get back to me.
[01:17:12] They probably decided to pass. And so then I might have a pattern in my life of being like, Oh, forget it. I, I'm not going to keep trying. Really, what I would advise is to recognize guys that you're in this liminal space where this is possibilities unfolding, and what you can do is invest yourself.
[01:17:31] Keep working, building that momentum. I think about pedaling a bicycle, keep pedaling your bicycle. You don't need to look back and see who's gotten back to you. Check your email a hundred times a day, keep training yourself. If you want to do a job in a field, then keep learning about that field. Keep becoming better at what you do.
[01:17:47] Keep sending out more resumes. don't hang your hat on any one piece of it, because that actually stops the process of building momentum. Your job is just to keep building up momentum, even when you don't know. And so it ties into this idea of having faith, in a process that it will unfold when the timing is, at some point, and in the meantime, who do you want to be?
[01:18:15] CK: [01:18:15] Yeah, I love that. Thank you. The realization that I have is what is your life's work. If your life's work is going to be a writer, then you write, if you're a musician, then you write music.
[01:18:28] If you're a podcast, you make podcasts. If you're a comedian, you tell jokes is really, it comes down to it's all at,
[01:18:38] and it's, the daily practice that you keep producing, no matter what, because that's part of your chosen dharmic
[01:18:48] So, I love that I'm talking to author slash musician slash physicist, so what would you say is your daily practice as a way to fulfill.
[01:18:58] Your path, no. Keep watering that seed blossom into a mighty Oak tree.
[01:19:04] Sky: [01:19:04] I'll tell you that story of how I got this book published, because it's exactly that, and this is how I really firmly planted this idea into my consciousness. I spent about six months or nine months. I wrote the book in 2011. Okay. Oh, wow.
[01:19:21] I sat on the manuscript. I kept revising. It kept I'm a perfectionist sometimes. So I kept going back and Changing things and making it better. And finally decided one year in 2015.
[01:19:32] CK: [01:19:32] Yeah. It's like a thesis and you six hour long audio book. So massive.
[01:19:38] Sky: [01:19:38] And I went back and decided to try and publish it.
[01:19:40] And I talked to somebody who was like a niche publisher and they were easy to connect with and they were interested. But then I decided, you know what? I really feel like I want to, publish with a publisher that can get this book out there. two more people. And I feel like this is a place in my life where I want to, do that.
[01:19:57] I want to try that my best. So I spent about nine months, sending out proposals. And these were only a small list of publishers that would accept them from an, a published author except new proposals. And so I did my research. It was just like finding a job. I'd fill out a proposal would take me like two or three weeks or a month to fill out this proposal to write it, send it off.
[01:20:19] You have to wait to submit any more proposals before you hear back from them. So you'd like, This long process, I got rejected maybe three times. And then synchronistically. I reached out to a, someone who I work with and they suggested an author, a publisher. And I reached out to this publisher, North Atlantic books and they were receptive.
[01:20:38] And so I sent them my, proposal and waited for about four weeks to hear back from them. And in that four weeks. And when I finally clicked, send on the proposal and my email box, I just took a deep breath in a relief and said, ah, I'm done. And I waited, I didn't keep writing. And I did other stuff. I was like, I get to get back to these other projects in my life.
[01:20:59] And I get to, garden and I get to deal with these other things that I've been putting off. So I could feel when it came time to hear back from them, I can feel that, I wasn't really invested. I was just hoping to get a positive response. Hoping that they would approve. And I finally got the email back one night, driving home, and they said some of us liked it.
[01:21:18] Some of us didn't and we decided to pass. And I was, I knewthat was coming and I was really disappointed, but that week I in, recovering and doing a post-mortem on myself, I found Oprah's website, which is a writer's contract. And Oprah's writer's contract is spending an hour every day.
[01:21:37] Uninterrupted, completely uninterrupted. Just writing. And if you don't have anything to write, you just sit there. And I took up that practice. I found somebody who was interested in writing a book and wanted me to ghost write their book. I found, I had my blog, which nobody was reading, but I could still post stuff there.
[01:21:55] And over the course of the next four or five months, I wrote everyday for an hour. Usually I got up at 5:00 AM and wrote before my family got up. And so I did what you're saying. I became a writer. I didn't have a publisher. I didn't have an, output. But I became the person I wanted to be. And I knew that practice was what I was missing before.
[01:22:15] When I reconnected with the same publisher at a conference, about six months later, I was in a position where I knew what I was doing and they were receptive to receiving the manuscript again. And I just said, you know what, let me start over. And I gave him a totally new proposal and they said, yes. And I started the book from scratch.
[01:22:34] Wow. The book I wrote in 2011 is not the book that you read. Wow.
[01:22:39] CK: [01:22:39] That's a beautiful illustration while we were talking about, and I loved the, every time you step into the role and whether you write one sentence or a full chapter, it actually doesn't matter. Every time you step into that, you're a writer.
[01:22:57] So every time you're reinforcing the identity
[01:23:00] of a writer, I'm
[01:23:00] a writer, So, there's, that. There, is that faith in their capability and then confidence in oneself and really presented it to the world that, Hey, I'm a writer, I've been doing this. So I'm not a poser. I'm a for sure writer because you start believing that yourself.
[01:23:19] That's a beautiful illustrator.
[01:23:20] Sky: [01:23:20] You believe it because you've become experienced at it because you've in your private time. When nobody's looking, you've said, this is who I want to be. What do I need to do to practice this? Yeah, we all have these things. And one of the exercises I do with people is, called from challenge area to flow area.
[01:23:38] You look at first, a place in your life where you've been successful. Recently, come up with a few, examples and you identify what those are. These are areas where you've been in flow. Anytime you've experienced success, you've been in some kind of flow. You've been aligned with your mind and your body and your spirit to make something accomplished.
[01:24:00] And then you look at your challenge areas, places where you don't experience flow and try and compare these. So the first thing go back to it is to choose one experience where you've had, where you've had flow and success. And you identify the three of the feelings that you felt in that experience. So when I was writing in flow, I felt happy.
[01:24:25] I felt excited. I felt connected. It doesn't mean I was successful with it yet. It just meant that I felt those are the things I felt when I was in flow. And then I look at three of the methods that I use when I'm in that zone. So the methods I use to get back to, become a writer were setting apart a certain amount of time every day to do it.
[01:24:46] That was the, technique I used structure. I created in my life. Another method was tapping into how it felt when I was writing. So what's, what am I feeling like? I'm forcing this. Am I feeling or am I feeling like I can feel something authentic in myself because when I could feel something authentic and I knew the right thing was better and another technique okay.
[01:25:07] Used was being compassionate with myself, even when it wasn't flowing, being willing to sit through that and just be happy with whatever, knowing that I was putting in the time. So I've now got three feelings and three techniques that I use when I'm in my best space. And I can look at a place in my life where I'm challenged and everybody has places where they're flow and places where they're challenged.
[01:25:24] So just take the same things from your flow experience and look at the challenges in your life and imagine yourself in that challenge, maybe the challenges, having a conversation with someone
[01:25:35] at work. Yeah.
[01:25:37] CK: [01:25:37] I really love that. Thank you for sharing that. so you're speaking to an audience of overachievers.
[01:25:43] Being compassionate to oneself is actually one of the primary challenges that overachievers have because they've been using beating themselves up as a way to geek
[01:25:54] More motivation, more, for, yeah. More motivation to do things that they don't necessarily want to do right. Internally, subjectively.
[01:26:04] So can you share with us zooming at the moment of where you're being more compassionate on practicing more self to yourself? Oh, what's happening.
[01:26:15] Sky: [01:26:15] Great question. And I think it's one of the most powerful tool that we have because we're always gonna make mistakes. Okay. No matter how good we get at what we do, there's going to be times when we don't have all the pieces in place, otherwise we're not growing.
[01:26:31] We're, we're going to be, life is going to push us synchronistically into situations that we can't handle comfortably. So that's my view, at least. So assuming that's true. How do we handle those moments? When we make a mistake, self-compassion allows us to deal with the internal feelings that we have.
[01:26:58] if somebody, if I make a mistake in front of a crowd and it's actually somebody else, I feel like somebody else put me in that situation or somebody, confused me. And so I did something wrong. I might go into resentment and blame if I go into
[01:27:15] CK: [01:27:15] others or
[01:27:17] Sky: [01:27:17] for someone else
[01:27:18] CK: [01:27:18] to, or someone else.
[01:27:19] Sky: [01:27:19] but that's because I'm actually beating myself up. So it starts with me beating myself up for being, making a mistake. And then I go to find someone else whose fault it was so I can practice becoming less blaming, but actually the best thing to the practice is becoming more compassionate with myself because if I don't feel.
[01:27:36] Upset at myself. There's no need to go out and find other people that are to blame. So that's the root of it, of all the other negative effects that I might be causing in the world is the self-treatment the self-compassion. So if I find myself at any time in a negative space of looking or feeling resentment or anger, or these kinds of negative type of feelings that we can feel, I can look inside myself and try and track down.
[01:28:00] Where is it that I'm not being. accepting of myself or that I'm expecting more of myself than I was able to give. And this comes back. I don't need to necessarily forgive myself. I don't even know what that means right away, but I need to recognize the pattern. Ah, okay. I'm actually being part of myself because I should've put in more time preparing last night and I didn't.
[01:28:24] Okay. Okay. Why am I, hard on myself about that? I do remember a time earlier in my life when, my parent or someone, a role model was really harsh with me about that. And I really believe it's important to prepare well. So I let myself down just recognizing that pattern and that internal dialogue can help to have some space from being reactive about it.
[01:28:48] CK: [01:28:48] Okay. So, say you identify that early childhood moments. And, then, what,
[01:28:58] Sky: [01:28:58] so this is, a process that I call synchronicity as a process of healing. And it's basically saying you're going to keep repeating patterns and you're going to keep experiencing synchronicities, which replay that pattern for you.
[01:29:10] The synchronicity is your onstage and somebody screws up and it affects you. it's, a negative thing. Maybe that puts you in the same situation. So then what do you do if you know yourself enough, if you've seen the pattern enough, if you've seen how you get angry and why enough, then you have choice as to how you respond.
[01:29:28] Yes. So let's say I'm in a situation where I'm feeling self-critical for not preparing enough last night and therefore I'm not ready for the situation, then it happened. Yes. What would I do? I would pause. I'd not do whatever I thought I needed to do next. whether it's right back to somebody right away on email or say something directly to somebody, Then I'd spend enough time reflecting. I do the Lorax process, listened to the situation, pay attention, opened my mind. Maybe I don't have all the information and I'd reflect on, what it is that I'm feeling. And if I'm feeling upset at myself for not preparing enough, it's not somebody else's problem.
[01:30:09] So then I get to take responsibility for my own feelings of, letting myself down or inadequacy.
[01:30:16] CK: [01:30:16] So, you do an inventory of your emotions?
[01:30:20] Sky: [01:30:20] Yeah. Yup. That's right. That's a good way to put it. Thank you. Do an inventory of your emotions. And I think that just by doing that inventory, you start to see places in your life where you actually have made mistakes, then you're accountable.
[01:30:34] So maybe this person. made you screw up on stage, but actually it was a result of something you said that gave them the feeling that's what you want, and
[01:30:44] CK: [01:30:44] taking responsibility for what's actually happening internally for you.
[01:30:48] Sky: [01:30:48] Yeah. And once you see that, then you can have, compassion for everybody and go Oh yeah, I see.
[01:30:53] I was part of this mistake. We were all part of it.
[01:30:56] CK: [01:30:56] Yeah. Thank you. Cool. So do you mind if we zoom out now, actually I know that you want to talk about choice a bit in our conversations. Is there anything that you want to say, how everything that we're discussing here ties into this main thing of personal responsibility and choice and synchronicity.
[01:31:20] Is there anything you want to say more about choice?
[01:31:24] Sky: [01:31:24] Oh, that's a good question. I think we've talked a lot about it and that is really an essence of the work I do. I've spent a lot of time in my life feeling, looking at my own regrets. Why do I regret, what do I regret? and looking at choices, I started thinking about synchronicity seriously as a scientific process by looking at, how do I decide between one path and another?
[01:31:48] How right. How do I decide between one job career and one of another career? How do I decide between one client and another? How do I decide where to spend my time in a given day what's valuable to me. And what I found was no matter what I chose, something would unfold from that, which was beneficial.
[01:32:06] And so on. Rather, I started off coming at this with a sense of what's the right choice. And I've come to see in a much broader sense of. Anything I choose is going to be reinforced. It's like planting seeds. So am I choosing something I really want to grow? And I've grown in confidence that whatever I plant is going to grow.
[01:32:28] So I'm no longer like trying to prove something to myself. I'm actually thinking more about, okay, what's important here. What's important to me. How do I get that service?
[01:32:39] CK: [01:32:39] That's actually amazing because a lot of overachievers there's, a hint of imposter syndrome and Seth Goden said it really well.
[01:32:47] He said the fact that you're outside of your comfort zone means precisely you're doing something that's outside of your competency. So of course you can feel a sense of imposter syndrome because it's outside of your competency. So, with that said, what was I getting there?
[01:33:07] Sky: [01:33:07] Totally forgot.
[01:33:09] CK: [01:33:09] Damn.
[01:33:11] Sky: [01:33:11] I'm feeling the same kind of like we've covered so many pieces of this and choice is such of a big aspect of, of my life experience and synchronicities are those moments when we're.
[01:33:24] re receiving a response to a choice we've made, right? So we've chosen to go in one direction and then the universe gives us this experience and we're like, ah, this was the right choice. It reinforces it for us, but it's not because we made the right decision. It's because the cosmos that we live in is responsive.
[01:33:41] We're going to experience things that reflect what we've chosen. So when I took that job, that promotion at the company, I experienced more. Responsibility. I chose that and I experienced more of that, but that reflected to me that wasn't actually the direction I wanted to go in the long run. So this programing of, the world we live in is not positive it's to reflect to us what we've chosen so that we can decide for ourselves.
[01:34:08] Is this what we want to choose? Is this what's important to us? Yeah.
[01:34:12] CK: [01:34:12] Allow it to unfold. So perfect. So let's segue in, zoom out to the macro. So we are two days after the U S election. A lot of people are thinking about, the, that we are actually in a simulation rather than in a physical universe.
[01:34:29] Some people are thinking about the multi-verse, the rum, all of these things. So thinking about the macro, how would you, using the principles that you share help. People navigate to think about the macro or should they even not even worry about the macro? Just for just, think about the micro.
[01:34:53] Sky: [01:34:53] Okay. I want to say a couple of things about that. Hopefully I remember. And second thing is not worrying about the macro, just focusing on the micro that's flow, but let me come back to that. The first thing is. I've felt just like everybody else, a certain amount of trepidation around the outcome of the election and the whole process of the election.
[01:35:11] I participated quite a lot by volunteering and, phone banking and things like that. So I'm very invested in taking action. I actually spent 15 hours on the phone on election day. Wow. so it's very important to me to invest myself in democracy. My message to people is get out and vote. it's not partisan.
[01:35:33] It's participate in your life. This is my message in life, participate in life, look at the opportunities in front of you and take them. And don't take it for granted that you live in a country where you can select your leaders and where all the, comforts of life that we have are a result of sacrifices made in the past.
[01:35:52] And we shouldn't take that for granted. We should make sure to invest ourselves in the parts of our life that we want to grow. And strengthened. So I definitely think it's important to invest. What I think is also important in terms of managing the experience as I've definitely been up and down on a roller coaster of anxiety and is ties into what are we afraid of when we're on this roller coaster of anxiety.
[01:36:18] And I want to emphasize that we're actually afraid of our own feelings. We're not actually afraid of the outcome in the physical world. We're afraid of the feelings we're going to have in that situation. And so if we can become more compassionate with ourselves, if we can become comfortable with whatever feelings we're having, we will get out of that fear space and be able to tolerate the situation, whatever it is, because we can tolerate how we feel.
[01:36:49] We can tolerate the feeling of. Powerlessness or the feeling of frustration or the feeling of self criticism. And if we're not fighting against those feelings that we don't want to have, then we're much more able to get into flow and deal with being resilient with whatever happens out there in the world.
[01:37:08]So the other piece was the macro and micro. Yeah. so the macro is. should we focus on fixing the world out there? Or is there a focus on fixing our own life and maybe fixing is the wrong word in both cases, but flow is this magical state that when we focus on doing what's best for ourselves, when we understand what it is we really want in life and make space and time for that, has an expansive effect.
[01:37:38] it's important for me to choose the job and the career that I love, not just because. It's selfish for me, but because I actually have an outsized impact when I do that, I influence other people to do that. I also influence my field most positively, and I have a greater impact on the flow of the whole collective.
[01:37:58] When I make choices that are really in alignment. If I make choices that are sacrificing my, wellbeing for, safety and security, I'm not actually going to be necessarily contributing. To a greater healing and a greater process of growth at the fundamental level. And I think that's what we need right now is this, not just growth economically, but growth inside as well.
[01:38:20] So that the growth economically reflects our values. And we start to reflect values like sustainability, whatever that means for you. having our society lasts for a long time, having people being treated equitably and getting rid of dismantling systemic racism. These are things that need to be part of our economic growth.
[01:38:37] Yeah. Go ahead. and that's why being in flow is that is a internal gauge for how do we get
[01:38:47] CK: [01:38:47] Yeah. There's a famous quote. The most selfless thing you could do is to be selfish slash self-center. Another way to articulate it is before you put on an oxygen mask on someone else, put it on yourself first.
[01:39:05] So, in that. You said to discover and reveal what you most want and focus on that. So are there catalyst experiences that empower you to, psychedelics that empower you to really get to the core of what you truly want? Cause I may even venture to say most people, don't really know what they really want because it's covered by layers and layers of construct that.
[01:39:34] They think they want that, but actually they inherited from someone else. So are there experiences that you have
[01:39:42] Sky: [01:39:42] course called the living in flow course that I, created online, you can find firstname.lastname@example.org and it's got an exercise in it which touches on this. How do we identify and make space for what we really want?
[01:39:56] And the key element of this exercise is really about who are you worried about letting down. Who are you worried about? Disappointing if you do this thing that you really want to do? I don't think we have to think too long about identifying something that we really want to do. Like it's, there. We have to do a little reflection and say, I really do want to spend more time writing, or I really do want to spend more time exercising or do you really want to spend more time with my family or at work or whatever.
[01:40:25] but usually there's somebody that's going to be disappointed. I'm not going to get back to them by email and they're going to be disappointed. And I'm afraid of that because if I don't get back to them by email and they're disappointed, my client might let me go, or my spouse might get mad at me. So getting aware of who it is that we're worried about disappointing, and then there's a feeling we're having when we're afraid of disappointing someone, right?
[01:40:54] There's a feeling we're having. I don't want to feel that feeling of. Threatened security when my relationships at risk or when my job is at risk. And because we're compelled to respond to that, then we respond to the email. We get back to somebody right away, or we keep not doing the things we really want to do because we're responding to these other obligations we have.
[01:41:13] So the first thing we can do is identify what obligations do I feel like I have and how are they stopping me from spending some time doing the things that I want to do. And how do I identify the feelings that are keeping me stuck in that cycle?
[01:41:25] CK: [01:41:25] I love that. So, there seem to be a theme around the cluttering, the emotional,
[01:41:32] Sky: [01:41:32] yeah.
[01:41:33] CK: [01:41:33] And tall and the relational
[01:41:35] Sky: [01:41:35] yeah. Decluttering is a good word. All of that. Yeah. Yeah. And that comes back to the filters I metaphor. the filters that we're looking through and filters are, carving out or removing information.
[01:41:48] We're not adding information to our lives to become more intelligent or more aware. We're removing the unnecessary information. And I think about, and this is a theme of the book, the second book, leaped to wholeness, I think about instead of creating something from nothing, instead of creating your life from scratch.
[01:42:07] Think of your life, like a big block of marble and you're carving away the pieces you don't want and what remains is the life that you want because you've, chosen not to do these other things.
[01:42:18] CK: [01:42:18] Yeah. The famous story about my quandary lawn, David. Yeah. Just chip away anything that's not.
[01:42:23] Sky: [01:42:23] Yeah.
[01:42:24] CK: [01:42:24] Yeah.
[01:42:24] Thank you for saying that. do you mind if we do some rapid fire questions and we'll wrap?
[01:42:29] Sky: [01:42:29] Sure.
[01:42:30] CK: [01:42:30] Cool. All right. what's your definition of purpose?
[01:42:37] Sky: [01:42:37] persistent, meaningful action in a row.
[01:42:42] CK: [01:42:42] I love it. What is your definition of fulfillment
[01:42:50] Sky: [01:42:50] knowing what makes you feel happy and recognizing it in places that you might not recognize it otherwise?
[01:43:02] CK: [01:43:02] I love it. What's your definition of
[01:43:04] Sky: [01:43:04] wealth feeling like you have enough in, all sorts of ways.
[01:43:13] CK: [01:43:13] Yeah. What do you do to not take yourself too seriously?
[01:43:24] Sky: [01:43:24] I spend time with my daughter and my wife.
[01:43:26] My daughter makes me laugh all the time. She's, a little obsessed with it because I'm so serious.
[01:43:32] CK: [01:43:32] As in, she obsessed with your
[01:43:34] Living in Choice & Synchronicity (According to a Physicist): [01:43:34] she's
[01:43:35] Sky: [01:43:35] always trying to make me crack up, and always trying to
[01:43:38] CK: [01:43:38] Oh, wow. What a blessing. She's good at it.
[01:43:40] Sky: [01:43:40] Yeah.
[01:43:41] CK: [01:43:41] No, that's, beautiful.
[01:43:43] Sky: [01:43:43] Yeah. That's a good balance for me, it's, a crucial part of who I am to have this other leg that I stand upon, which grounds me in my practices.
[01:43:54] CK: [01:43:54] So for the younger and single, sky who didn't have a daughter yet.
[01:43:59] Sky: [01:43:59] Yeah.
[01:44:00] CK: [01:44:00] What would you say to what practice would you advise him to take on to not take himself too seriously?
[01:44:13] Sky: [01:44:13] That's a great question. Maybe not have all the, not have all the answers.
[01:44:18] CK: [01:44:18] Okay. So recognize that as a mantra. Hey, you don't know the answers. You don't have all the answers.
[01:44:24] Sky: [01:44:24] Yeah. Yeah.
[01:44:27] CK: [01:44:27] By the way, do you have any embodiment practice? Cause whereas Cerebro people,
[01:44:33] Sky: [01:44:33] so yeah.
[01:44:34] CK: [01:44:34] Is there anything that you do as a way to drop into the body and emotions versus just being here all the time?
[01:44:40] Sky: [01:44:40] Yeah. first of all, as a musician, the reason I've kept up being a musician all those years, I started when I was five, it's a, it's an embodied practice of being in flow. It forces me to sing from my chest and my belly and feel the, piano and the guitar and my fingers, and actually be present with people physically, not just mentally.
[01:45:01] So that's a, real practice for me. I also, yeah, people talk about getting exercise every day and usually they talk about. 30 minutes of exercise. I get five minutes, but it's every day. So it's enough to ground me and my body to make sure I get that five minutes of running every day.
[01:45:17] CK: [01:45:17] Five minutes of running like a Tabata type of practice, or what,
[01:45:21] Sky: [01:45:21] how do you use the term
[01:45:24] CK: [01:45:24] Tabata developed by this Japanese, exercise guru essentially it's 20 seconds on 10 seconds off for eight rounds for a total of four minutes.
[01:45:37] Sky: [01:45:37] Wow. Oh, I'm very simple. And this ties into my practice with flow and synchronicity in general, I do what I can, that's consistent and what's consistent for me is I can find six.
[01:45:49] It's usually six minutes on my treadmill and I can do that because that's the time it takes me to get my heart rate up. And as long as I've done that, I'm going to be a little more grounded in my day. Awesome. I love that. It's not ideal. It's not like I'm saying I'm, fulfilling a specific practice.
[01:46:05] Cause that would be mental. I'm trying to get out of the mental idea of what's enough and focus on what is right for my body.
[01:46:12] CK: [01:46:12] Yeah. But, it echoes what we talked about because every time you step on to that treadmill, you're reinforcing the identity. I'm an athlete.
[01:46:21] And it says you're being consistent with that.
[01:46:23] That it's not even a question. Whether or not you're an athlete. Cause you are by. Sheer volume of how many A's you have exercise four, five, six minutes
[01:46:33] Sky: [01:46:33] at a time. That's how we make real change in our lives is what are the things that we can do that are consistent, not what we think we should do in our heads.
[01:46:41] And we were doing to impress somebody else or prove it to ourselves, but what's, coming from our soul, our core place that's consistent. That will define who we are. Yeah,
[01:46:49] CK: [01:46:49] that's beautiful. last question in the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habits? At most improve your
[01:47:02] Sky: [01:47:02] Self-compassion coming back to that because it's with self-compassion that I take myself less seriously. So self-compassion that I don't give up when I feel like I made a mistake. It's that? It's the thing that keeps me from stopping pedaling. The bicycle pedaling, the bicycle is what keeps my life moving forward.
[01:47:20] CK: [01:47:20] beautiful sky. Really, appreciate you being here on the show. We went through a lot, a wide range of topics. We talked about, being comfortable. We oneself, we talked about. synchronicity the nature of synchronicities objective reality versus consensus reality. We talked about serendipity. We talked about a number of things, how things come together at the right time and then the right space.
[01:47:45] And, there are lower X principle, the AR G H principle, and, or so appreciate you just being willing to have this conversation. It's really challenging actually, to talk about this. Very esoteric. but that's also a very important thing that, everyone wants to know synchronicity and flow and, all that.
[01:48:12] Sky: [01:48:12] I really appreciate the depth of the conversation and the questions that you ask. it's really been an enjoyment to, sit here with you and do this. Beautiful.
[01:48:20] CK: [01:48:20] I hope to, we get to do this again.
[01:48:22] Sky: [01:48:22] Yeah. I look forward to it. Thanks CK.