Andrzej Cetnarski is the founder CEO of Cyber Nation Central, a world-class expert in VIP cybersecurity, ex-UBS I-Banker, Harvard MPA, and Wharton MBA. He is also personally passionate about consciousness and living authentically


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Wisdom Quotes

You can buy insurance and you probably should buy cyber insurance to placate a board and to make yourself feel better at night, but that's not going to protect you from hackers. Click To Tweet The moment you start the external, you start allowing the external world, dictating the weather inside you've lost Click To Tweet Create a a rhythm in your life on a day-to-day basis that really allows you to tap into who you are, not what the world is either a wanting you to be, or is requiring you to be. Click To Tweet I listened to my body throughout the day and I listened to what's happening in my mind Click To Tweet I try not to be grateful for things external to me because those can be taken away within me that I can be grateful for so that I'm not tied to anybody else or anything for my well-being Click To Tweet Behave your way into feeling. Click To Tweet When you up into a conversation you allow the conversation to flow based on the energy of the conversation. Not based on the titles. Not based on hierarchy, not based on I'm here because of XYZ. Click To Tweet Don't allow others to make you feel anything, you yourself feel how you want, you don't allow the external world to dictate how you should feel. Click To Tweet You never lose your ego, right? But you drown it out with purpose. Click To Tweet Who you want to be really comes from your intuition. Click To Tweet The process of meditating put me on a vibration that throughout the day, Allowed micro messages to come. Click To Tweet I would listen to those small hunches and in and of themselves might not mean anything. But in totality, what listened to those more and more has allowed me to do is to become more prolific. I listening to my body and what my spirit is… Click To Tweet You don't learn that lesson comes back twofold, and then you don't learn that comes back two fold that until it becomes painful enough. How am I learning from the simple lessons in life become before they become painful enough where the… Click To Tweet There are no failures in life only lessons learned or not learned. Click To Tweet The mind is actually quite stupid, the heart, however, is smart. And so the more you listen to the heart and your intuition and guidance, the more you're using the mind as a tool, not be used by it the better. Click To Tweet Once you've made your first million dollars, every damn burger tastes the same. Click To Tweet Spiritual wealth to me is 'Am I living every single day in a way that brings a smile to my face throughout the day?' Click To Tweet I tend not to get myself around people that are too serious or negative. I'm allergic to both. Click To Tweet


Wisdom Clips


Transcript by AI

Andrzej Cetnarski Transcript by AI

CK Lin: [00:00:00] we are a few days after the US election. I'm curious to know from your perspective

[00:02:25] why should entrepreneurs and not just celebrities or high net worth individuals care about cybersecurity?

[00:02:33] Andrzej: [00:02:33] Oh, wow. Let's face it. So the election isn't done first and foremost, and secondly, Part of the reason why it's not done is because we're going through a process that may very well see cybersecurity as part of the issue at the heart of it.

[00:02:55] Now, do I expect that? No, I think we have gotten Russia for the most part, China and Iran and DPRK out of that process, but you just never know in cybersecurity. So, that said your broader question. Why should. Anyone care about cybersecurity. Is that, what you asked?

[00:03:15] CK Lin: [00:03:15] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Why, should it be IPS care about cybersecurity or really anyone really

[00:03:22] Andrzej: [00:03:22] well for a couple of reasons.

[00:03:24] And I this, hearkens to a larger question of cybersecurity in general, in our society, let's start with the fact that we, as a world are going digital and everybody on this call probably knows this better than most. And with digitalization comes the need to have the digitalization be properly secured.

[00:03:44] Otherwise we are building houses without doors and windows allowing the growing cyber crime markets to capitalize on that insecurity. And we'd like to achieve security by design. That's not always possible. And so paying attention to cybersecurity becomes increasingly important. As we create digital crown jewels as they're called in cyberspace.

[00:04:11] What is that? It, a digital crown jewel can be your reputation, which can be tarnished online. It can be your financial wealth, which can be ransomed and held ransom until, and unless you pay hackers the ransom, it can be a host of issues at the level of your organization. And so that means your organizational networks.

[00:04:37] It can be cyber insecurity of the level of your employees. And very specifically to my focus, it can be at the level of the organizational VIP's who are employees, but as the organizational, VIP's be at CEOs, board directors, entrepreneur, founders, politicians, journalists, et cetera, any leaders that are facing.

[00:05:04] A higher threat landscape by the design of who they are and what roles they hold. Those particular individuals need to pay even more attention to their cybersecurity because the rising cyber criminal market is specifically targeting them. And the issue gets even more complicated because you're obviously talking about the organizational VIP, not just as a professional, but also as a private citizen in their personal life and their family.

[00:05:32] All of which are being exploited by hackers to target the organization and your organization's existence in some cases and at the very least hurting you reputationally or financially.

[00:05:46] CK Lin: [00:05:46] So not as much.

[00:05:49] Andrzej: [00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:49] CK Lin: [00:05:49] I know. I this, is your jam, so I know that you can probably go on for a fall on time, but some key terms that was really intriguing for me cybersecurity market.

[00:06:00] Reputation wealth, organizational networks. All of these are conceptually. I get, can you give us some examples? Because in my mind let's say if I'm an ordinary citizen or really, even a lot of the great guests that I've speaking to, that I've spoken to, they really don't think of themselves as an important person.

[00:06:23] They're very humble human beings. So from that point of view, they may think Hey, I'm an ordinary citizen. Really when you know, I'm not a celebrity, what kind of reputation and my jeopardizing here, what kind of wealth and may really jeopardizing here and how is my organizational network going to be impacted by cybersecurity?

[00:06:43] Because right now that doesn't quite connect the dots, can you give us some concrete means we can really understand what you're talking about here.

[00:06:50] Andrzej: [00:06:50] So the biggest question you have to ask yourself is what are the digital crown jewels in my life? That if a hacker dot into would really pissed me off or really hurt me.

[00:07:06] And for everybody, it's going to be very different. So for example, in our VIP cybersecurity blueprint, we walk you through very specifically questions that allow you to distill what exactly are those digital crown jewels in your life. So let's say you're a founder of a startup, any IP whatsoever. I promise you hackers are going to try and get to it.

[00:07:29] Why? Because selling your IP on the on the black market can be very lucrative, especially if you're a startup founder. And so part of our clientele indeed is more successful startup founders because they've got something to protect from hackers  that gets exacerbated by the fact that most startups case in point your question, don't realize that they have something to protect.

[00:07:55] And that combined with the fact that their budgets are most likely too low to have a proper cyber secure cyber secure plan in place, their cybersecurity knowledge is often not advanced enough to go up against hackers and or their cybersecurity policies are not high. Quality enough to protect their employees and their networks against talkers.

[00:08:23] And so they really are a sitting prey for if that answers your question and to to perhaps define the VIP component a little bit more. We're not talking here about your ordinary con definition of a VIP we're strictly focusing on organizational VIP's. So thinking about an organizational VIP, what's your board director, founder.

[00:08:53] It's your C-suite right. If you're a public sector organization, if you're non-government then, you've got the same sort of a hierarchy, et cetera, et cetera. And so you've got to ask yourself the question of what are my digital crown jewels. Is it IP? Is it my reputation as a founder, because if you're the founder, most of the time, if your reputation gets tarnished, your startup is out of business potentially.

[00:09:20] CK Lin: [00:09:20] So pause for a second. When you say reputation gets tarnish, what do you mean by that? Does that mean that let's say someone dig up someone's porn, watching habits, like what exactly are they really tarnishing? Really?

[00:09:35] Andrzej: [00:09:35] Now you're getting into a, another topic that's huge these days that we deal with all the time, which is disinformation.

[00:09:43] So remember back to the Hillary Clinton campaign Hillary Clinton had stuff on her personal servers information that belong to the state department and other hackers got into her personal servers. Uptake some fairly innocent, some slightly not, but all of it was fairly planned on a lot enough disinformation to it really smear

[00:10:19] her.

[00:10:20] CK Lin: [00:10:20] I see the integrity of her personal behavior, digital behavior. Shall we

[00:10:27] say?

[00:10:29] Andrzej: [00:10:29] And what did the constituents do? All of a sudden you've got constituents that are questioning issue. Really the person that I wanted to vote for same goes for founders, especially founders and startups. And I would as a, as an investor in to startups, myself as a director of startups, myself I always look out what lifecycle stage is this startup?

[00:10:58] Is it single feed series, a series B, et cetera. In other words, at what point does the founder no longer become the longevity of the company? I think

[00:11:09] there's a founder no longer become the dependency.

[00:11:13] Correct. If the founder no longer is there, will this company survive until that answer is yes, the company will survive the founder and the company are both tied to each other.

[00:11:26] And each other's wellbeing. And so we'll not therefore me install hackers. If I go after the reputation of the founder by accessing their cloud, let's say illegally of course, obtained innocent information, adding some disinformation to it and posting it in front of their shareholders in front of their board.

[00:11:47] So that they think there is wrongdoing of some sort.

[00:11:52] CK Lin: [00:11:52] Attacking their character slash teaching. I see,

[00:11:57] Andrzej: [00:11:57] And unfortunately, in this information, once the disinformation is out there and you're not prepared for it, nine times out of 10, you lose that battle. You either get fired or whatever the case is.

[00:12:08] And another staggering statistic and in startups and small businesses. In other words, we're not just talking startups here. We're talking small businesses. And when you listen to the definition of small businesses by the SBA, the small business administration, 99% of companies really are small businesses, small and medium enterprises.

[00:12:30] And what is it?

[00:12:32] CK Lin: [00:12:32] Yeah.

[00:12:32] Andrzej: [00:12:32] Think about that. If you're breached. Six times out of 10, you're going to be out of business within six months of the breach. That's why you pay attention to your cyber security.

[00:12:45] CK Lin: [00:12:45] Okay. All right, so now, I'm a little bit more educated.

[00:12:49] I'm a little bit more aware. Frankly, a little bit like, Holy shit. What about miles? Cyber security, right? So in terms of operationalizes concept, what percentage of budget would you say? Oh, okay. You, will probably want it's in my mind is like insurance. Okay. So great.

[00:13:07] So then you allocate a certain budget, take care of the cybersecurity. So that way you don't need to concern yourself with this nightmare scenario anymore. What, how would you get a little bit more practical for people who are listening to this?

[00:13:22] Andrzej: [00:13:22] What a beautiful, question. You, have no idea how amazing your question actually is, and here's why it is less.

[00:13:31] So a question of budget and it is so a question of insurance for, a couple of reasons. So even AXA, which is a major insurance provider and a major cyber insurance provider as well. Has come out to say that companies are starting to over use cyber insurance. Now, let me give you a little bit of background on this very quickly.

[00:13:59] Insurance is a bandaid. That's all it is. It's a bandaid, but it's bandaid. That is not sufficient in the world of cybersecurity because hackers are always going to be ahead of any regulation. And insurance. And so yeah, you can buy and you probably should buy cyber insurance to placate a board and to make yourself feel better at night, but that's not going to protect you from hackers.

[00:14:32] So that's 0.1 0.2 is cyber insurance is a way to recoup some of the money that you may very well lose. If hackers, ransom more networks and the ransom opt to give those networks back to you. However, the issue is twofold. First, you have zero assurance that hackers will give that network back to you.

[00:15:00] And so that's issue one issue. Two is. The FBI has already come out very formally to say we are making run some payments, illegal shit. You think if you're a board member and you're a CEO of a smaller, medium enterprise, you're thinking wait a minute. So if I can't pay ransom and if cyber insurance doesn't really cover me fully, then what's left.

[00:15:28] Yeah. Prevention So to your direct question of how much budget do I start with? Start with major cybersecurity awareness in your company. And we have, a completely free three hour. Seminar that we put our CEOs and boards through. You're welcome to log on to CB as in VIP cybersecurity blueprint.

[00:16:00] So VIP PCB dot cyber from And that will get you into a three hour seminar strictly for leaders Y Y ou CK as a founder yourself. Have all the culpability in the world, a couple of reasons. First we now are seeing a regulation in the United States. That's trying to if it passes jail executives, not deals, not CSOs CEOs and board members that have presided over a major breach in their company.

[00:16:39] Why. Because your customers have suffered because your shareholders have suffered. And so as a result, cyber secure culture starts at the top. And your CTO, as we explained in the seminar very well does not protect you a hundred percent, 360 degrees, as you would imagine. I won't belabor the point here. But you need to start this in your boardroom. This does not start with the CTO.

[00:17:07] CK Lin: [00:17:07] Yeah, I'll definitely do that. I'll include that in the show notes and thanks for sharing that generous bonus to our listeners here.

[00:17:16] Gotcha. So maybe change it up a little bit. One of the things that I really am excited to talk to you personally, Andre is you are a really interesting guy.

[00:17:24] Okay. And how I know that right away, because if I just purely look at your LinkedIn and your CV, I'm thinking to my mind who is this guy? And then I saw your picture as I was like, Oh, he definitely should be a double, a seven movie born in poor Poland live in Japan, China, us do a citizenship polyglot speaking, Polish, English, Japanese, Chinese in Spanish.

[00:17:51] You meet in congressmen, staff, investment banker cybersecurity, expert tech, founder, advisor, investor, speaker, and an author. And the way you look. So like I said, like who who is this person? How, like, how is he able to do it all?

[00:18:07] Andrzej: [00:18:07] Probably one of the more surprising comments I've gotten is Oh my God. I didn't realize how nice Andrea is having the background that he does.

[00:18:21] CK Lin: [00:18:21] That's all you, do a little, bit serious in your, professional photos. So yeah.

[00:18:28] Andrzej: [00:18:28] It's, interesting.

[00:18:30] And this is the topic that I'm assuming we'll get into as well. The juxtaposition of self-actualization and personal development with our professional lives, then how we need to appear in certain conversations is a very interesting topic that I personally delve into quite a bit, cybersecurity tends to be an overly serious industry. And so I, and a couple of my dear friends try to demystify it first and foremost. Second vacant, extremely accessible to an average non-technical leader, which I am. I was a tech investment banker and tech entrepreneur, which doesn't mean I have a tech engineering background, not at all, quite the opposite.

[00:19:15] I'm a business guy first and foremost. And you've got to have fun in life. You've got to focus on joy and developing yourself on a consistent basis. And therefore merging those two has always been a passion of mine.

[00:19:32] CK Lin: [00:19:32] Yeah. After speaking to you and not just looking at your photo by speaking to you're like, Oh, this is, he's a really friendly guy.

[00:19:39] So, in my mind, when I think about dealing with cyber crimes and cyber security, you are taking on the role of being the protector in my mind, like the ninth, right? So hence the seriousness and the warrior. Hey, I totally get that. And I'm curious to know, how are you able to not let the quote-unquote darkness pull you into just being like.

[00:20:00] Cynical and dark yourself. Cause you maintain your optimism and positivity. Very, well. So I'm curious to know, how are you able to maintain your sovereignty? You, even though you work in the industry constantly fighting cyber criminals, trying to essentially shaft people in the back.

[00:20:20] Andrzej: [00:20:20] Yeah. What a great question. Oh, I'll give you a bit of a joke behind it. And then I'll tell you the real answer. So I used to be a research assistant for Steven Levitt. Now, I don't know the name. Steven Levitt is a professor in economics of crime and the author of Freakonomics. He was my professor when I was a young student at the university of Chicago, studying economics of crime with him.

[00:20:46] So my background in this area goes, 20 years now. And he was always a jokester, right? So we would ride in the backseat of a squad car around the university of Chicago campus observing crime in real time in South side, Chicago. And I always admire that, he was dealing still is very much dealing with the serious issue of, crime and keeping it superbly lights.

[00:21:15] That said you're asking a much deeper question, which is to me, the moment you start the external, you start allowing the external world, dictating the weather inside you've lost. And so the trick in life, and we're all striving for a level of that. That's higher than where we currently are, but the trick constantly is to create a a rhythm in your life on a day-to-day basis that really allows you to tap into who you are, not what the world is either a wanting you to be, or is requiring you to be.

[00:21:58] That's probably how I would describe it. Most of the things we,

[00:22:01] CK Lin: [00:22:01] yeah. Let me reiterate back to you. So you have a daily practice, tact, your own sovereignty. So at it's not impacted by the external circumstances happening outside of your subjective reality. Is that accurate?

[00:22:16] Andrzej: [00:22:16] Absolutely. Cool.

[00:22:18] CK Lin: [00:22:18] So at, what a time to talk about that right now, a few days after 20, 20 electrical is still happening, a lot of people are really. Freaked out right at this moment. Can you share with us some of your personal practices as a way to protect your sovereignty in spite of whatever happening in your life?

[00:22:40] Andrzej: [00:22:40] So that's my daily practice let me ask, answer that in two ways, I'll give you my daily practice, but the most important question or, the more relevant question that everybody on the call should be asking themselves is. How do I figure out my daily practice? It's not necessarily copy somebody else use some of the things that they might be doing if they resonate with you, but figure out what that process is for you.

[00:23:10] And the way to figure out what that process was for me really had to do with looking through the pain and whatever area of my life it was happening in. And finding the incongruencies in that area. And

[00:23:27] CK Lin: [00:23:27] what do you mean by incongruency? Sorry.

[00:23:29] Andrzej: [00:23:29] So I don't care whether it's something goes poorly in business for you or something goes bad in your relationship.

[00:23:38] A lot of people put band-aids over that and move on to the next relationship or the next business

[00:23:43] deal.

[00:23:44] That's the time to sit back and really look inside and ask yourself, what's gone on. What are the lessons out of that? How do I forgive? Not forget myself first and foremost, right? How do I forgive myself, learn from the lessons and implement whatever changes need to happen.

[00:24:07]Take it from there. And so to give you mine, my practice has evolved over chapters of my life. I immigrated to the U S to New York at the age of 14 as a kid that spoke zero English that was chapter one of figuring out who the heck am I? And then you figure out, Oh my God, I'm this and this person.

[00:24:32] And then life throws you another curve ball, right? And you say, Oh my God, everybody's at fault. No, nobody's at fault. You need to look inside and ask yourself, what is the universe trying to teach you? What are the lessons that you should take out of that again, whether it's around your purpose in life, whether it's around your, the kind of relationship you want to have with your significant other, or with yourself first and foremost, what is the business direction that you need to take, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:25:04] So I've gone through multiple metamorphosis and I wouldn't change it for the world, but it was because I was constantly curious. And continue, to be more curious. And I'm 40 years old. So the world is the oyster ahead of me still.

[00:25:22]CK Lin: [00:25:22] Okay. So what are your actual practice daily?

[00:25:26] Andrzej: [00:25:26] So let's see. So in each of the areas of my life, I have my daily or weekly habits. I actually divide up my life into different areas that are important to me. First and foremost, obviously. Personal and professional. And then within those, there are a couple of areas within each that are important to me.

[00:25:48] So for example, in my personal, it's the kind of a relationship that I have with myself. It's the kind of relationship that I have with my friends with my significant other it's the physical routine that I have. It's the spiritual and mindset routine that I have, et cetera. And a lot of people laugh.

[00:26:10] I wake up at four 30 in the morning and the first three hours of that day, I do not exist to the world. And during those three hours, I do everything from starting my day off with incantations that are actually emanating out of Tony Robinson date with destiny, where you really go into that process quite deeply.

[00:26:33] And so I go into incantations around who I am, what I believe what are the goals that I want to achieve this year today? Et cetera, what kind of a relationship I want to have with my significant other what kind of a relationship I want with my business? What kind of a person do I want to be in business, et cetera.

[00:26:53] So incantations first followed by a 15 minute meditation and that spans a variety of different ones. Depending on the day and how I feel that morning and that is followed by a workout. I work out six days a week to take out the guesswork of, do I work out today? Do I not work out today?

[00:27:13] I can still work out two days during the week. I didn't want to play around with it. So I just said I'm working out six days a week, Monday through Saturday. And that's that thinking taken out of the equation. And then it's my your bathroom routine your your, breakfast. I do breakfast every day.

[00:27:30] That's my biggest meal of the day as prescribed. And then I go off to work. Throughout the day I take either a power nap or a 10 minute or 15 minute meditation, depending on where my energy is, what am I dealing with? Is it something super heady or is it something lighter? I listened to my body throughout the day and I listened to what's happening here.

[00:27:57] What kind of thoughts do I have? Are they negative thoughts? Are they positive thoughts? If they're negative thoughts? Okay. That's assigned to look in and say, you're taking the negative side of the stick. How do you get yourself out of that? Because every issue in life is positive and negative.

[00:28:13] So the moment you find yourself thinking the negative side, rewind, how do I reset? Okay. Is it, do I need to get myself into a place of gratitude? So I actually lied. The first thing that I do in the morning is. Three, three things I'm grateful for. As soon as I wake up my eyes, I don't even literally physically get out of bed until I thought about three things that I'm grateful for.

[00:28:35] And that starts with me. In other words, don't I try not to be grateful for things external to me because those can be taken away within me that I can be grateful for so that I'm not tied to anybody else or anything. And it was for my well-being

[00:28:53] CK Lin: [00:28:53] that I actually haven't heard that before most people are grateful for external things or relationship, which we all are great by the way, but ultimately consume like those things are out of your control ultimately.

[00:29:04] So I love that. You're grateful for who you are

[00:29:08] Andrzej: [00:29:08] and even think about, if you're grateful, some other person start with yourself because you've manifested that person. So are you, grateful for that has allowed you to manifest that person in your life. And likewise, if you've manifested into your life, somebody that's not so nice.

[00:29:29] That's, you're doing too. That's a painful thing for a lot of people to hear. I remember I was in a relationship with somebody that long story short didn't work out. Didn't work out for the right reasons, but. When you look back to that, you say you manifested that. Why did you

[00:29:48] it's

[00:29:49] A personal, yeah.

[00:29:49] Was that kind of a person? I was exhibiting these kinds of traits and behaviors. No wonder that came to me. A familiar with Abraham Hicks look up Abraham Hicks that will teach you everything you need to know about the law of attraction, the law of deliberate creation. And everything else around what you're manifesting into your life.

[00:30:12] That can mean your, a sloppy thinker and manifester, right? So there's always room for improvement for everyone.

[00:30:23] CK Lin: [00:30:23] You didn't finish your day though. So before we get into deeper questions, I want you to finish your ritual.

[00:30:30] What about your evening rituals? Do you have a meaning ritual as a way to off-ramp yourself or a beautiful eight hour sleep or however many hours sleep that you have?

[00:30:41] Andrzej: [00:30:41] I've got a set schedule, 9:30 PM to five to four 30 in the morning, I'm in bed, so I get my seven hours at the very least an hour before bed, no electronics. I don't care what's happening around the world. I used to have a mentor in, my early days as a chairman and CEO of my company in Hong Kong whose father taught him.

[00:31:08] Unless the house is on fire, my wife is divorcing me or the bank is pulling the loan. I don't want to hear you while I'm playing tennis. And you use that kind of analogy in your life. What are the things that can disrupt or quiet time? I don't anything to disrupt my last hour of the day.

[00:31:30] Instead, what I do is I listen to an evening meditation or I listened to. Empowering messages of whatever sort I feel like is needed at that time. So perhaps this is another tool that I should mention. I use quite a bit, which is I've developed a toolkit of things that I can take out of that toolkit throughout the day to use, to bring new to that positive side of the issue.

[00:32:02] So whether it's meditations or. Power nap or listening to music or listening to, I don't care, Tony Robbins, fearless soul Abraham Hicks or anything that speaks to you around an issue that you're having. So that you can pull that out of that point in the day and help yourself get over that threshold, so to speak.

[00:32:27] CK Lin: [00:32:27] So is it more content driven or resonance driven for you? Are you trying.

[00:32:34] Andrzej: [00:32:34] It has to be both, right? Because music can get you into an energy space. That's really uplifting. Specific messaging around a particular issue can completely shift your energy because it shifts your mindset because it shifts the conversation you're having with yourself, constantly listening to what's happening here. What's what's, being messaged here and figuring out what tool is going to get me into a better energy space is great. The other tool that is very useful is. Tony Robbins taught me this, although he doesn't own that. The mood meter,

[00:33:15] CK Lin: [00:33:15] the what?

[00:33:16] Andrzej: [00:33:16] The mood meter. Okay. Yeah. Whatever 32 moods or whatever it is that you can have throughout the day. Are you on the mood meter? Are you at the, highest exaltation or all in complete and utter despair?

[00:33:37] Is you can't jump 15 moves. About one or two. Law of attraction becomes very important because the better it gets, the better it gets, the better it gets.

[00:33:51] So pay attention to the better your life gets, the better your day gets the better it gets. The more right on, on the positive trajectory you are. But the same thing goes for the other side, the worse it gets, the worst it gets, the worse it gets, the worse it gets. And so paying attention to, are you on a downward trajectory throughout the day, or are you on an upward trajectory?

[00:34:12] Becomes very important because your entire day can be colored by how am I waking up? Did I go to sleep with positive thoughts with joy with, appreciation, or did I go to bed in a. Hurry the mood. I had no time to myself. I was pissed off because the, election pissed me off. I didn't center.

[00:34:40] And so I walk up with that vibration, because vibration stops while you're sleeping, whether you know it or not that's, a fact vibration while you're sleeping. So you wake up with the same vibration that you went to sleep with.

[00:34:55] CK Lin: [00:34:55] Yeah.

[00:34:56] Andrzej: [00:34:56] Catching yourself. Immediately, as soon as you wake up is critical, what's on my right.

[00:35:02] How do I, get myself out of that, to the extent that I went to sleep with the wrong vibration. And then

[00:35:10]CK Lin: [00:35:10] I want to do a quick recap then I'll share some of the, maybe underlying something that I thought was really cool so quickly.

[00:35:16] Yeah. You you. You have you sought out everyday with gratitude, first thing in the morning, incantation and meditation. In my mind, those are practices of way of being that you get yourself in that state or way of being right away. So that way, and to me, after all these years of studying really all of this the secret the science of success and the art of fulfillment.

[00:35:46] I really get what they say is actually accurate. B do half his way of being first and foremost before the mental stuff and the tactical stuff and so forth. So I really love that you're putting yourself in that position right away. And then another insight that I also get from correct me if I'm wrong is every time you do it, just like how Jerry Seinfeld doesn't break his chain of writing every one joke a day every day, just Doesn't break chains every time you do it, you're reinforcing that way of being identity that you have.

[00:36:21] That's who you are. Yes. Is that an accurate

[00:36:25] Andrzej: [00:36:25] 100%? And one of the ways that I would describe it as a way that I learned from John Maxwell and individual galore behave your way into feeling.

[00:36:37]Quite a profound statement actually. Behave your way into feeling. What the hell does that mean? So if I'm behaving happily, even though I'm not happy, will I be happy? Yeah. Yeah, you do that often enough. You just, not every day, you can't things that bring you joy every day around whichever areas of your life are important to you.

[00:36:58] If you want to be wealthy, I'm wealthy. I'm. I'm this I'm that. Or if you want to ha if you want happiness in your relationship, my relationship is this and that, and it's exciting and it's joyful and it's juicy and it's whatever the heck you want it to be right in your way into that feeling. And you're, all of a sudden starting to emanate more of that energy.

[00:37:20] CK Lin: [00:37:20] Yeah. So let's actually go in on that point specifically. Cause one score I thought is. Let's say I want to be eight feet tall. I won't be, if he, I wouldn't be, if you taught as an example, it's I'm doing self programming with my words. I really am working at it. I'm just not going to be, if you talk for example, and other school of thought is behave your way into really experiencing it.

[00:37:46] And. It's probably not one or the other. It's probably somewhere in the middle from my point of view. I'm the student of Confucius, the middle way, the middle path. So I'm curious to know how you could authentically and viscerally experience something that's yet to come without seeing evidence without being just going through the motion and really trying to force an outcome.

[00:38:14] Does that make sense?

[00:38:15] Andrzej: [00:38:15] Absolutely. Whenever I coach CEOs that I invest into I first and foremost require them to be willing to go through a personal development program with me.

[00:38:25] If they're not, then investment is not, ever a possibility. And probably the reason why is because in this, I picked up from Tony as well, seven layers, deep of why. Sure by the time you get to your seventh layer of why you're starting to get the actual reason. And usually it's an aha moment that has to do with the feeling you get.

[00:38:53] Whatever that feeling is, the feeling you get from doing it. So you answered ego. It's never ego, right? Really delve into it. Somebody can take all the wealth from you or, the relationships from you. And then you're stuck with yourself. Imagine being a monk, zero financial wealth.

[00:39:18] Living more of a, mindset life and lifestyle. Where does that joy come from is, the question. And when I, answer your question for myself, to me, it's always, what is the feeling that I'm trying to get? I want, to be an investment banker. What a, why? That was a goal.

[00:39:41] So why was that? He go there. Okay. Then I want it to have my own company. I had it. Was I happy? Not quite right. I, didn't have the company, had meat. So then you peel the layer further. I did have the company on my terms. W what would those terms be? And it all comes down to how do I want to feel every day?

[00:40:05] And of course it comes down to what does it mean for me to live congruently with who I am? Also you, go deeper or who the hell really am I. Right now in my life. Cause that also changes throughout your life. What is your purpose today? May very well be different from your purpose at seven years old.

[00:40:28] So it all comes back to why. Why, ego generally is the shallower end of that stick. When you dig deeper and you figure out this is the feeling that I want to get in your case, you're already delivering on that to your audience. My friends. You're already empowering your audience. Right?

[00:40:47] You're bringing speakers to them. They're bringing resources to them, all of that. You're already starting. So taking joy out of that every day, being grateful for that is a way to attract even more of that into your life.

[00:41:03] CK Lin: [00:41:03] Yeah. One of the metaphors that I come across recently, It really simple. It really summarize everything that I've learned the past few decades or more around this.

[00:41:17] If you think about who we are as a tree, there are different major branches that we care about. So in my case, I care about finances, career relationships, romance physicality emotionality. Mentality and virtuality, these are major branches that I care deeply about. And then if that's the case, then for me, what is the next question is what's the nutrient.

[00:41:44] So in my mind, the nutrient going through it's is a intentionality. What's my intention or intentions. And as well as my emotionality what's, the emotion behind it. And I love that you brought up the mood meter because you couldn't be in a shitty mood and then, and not bringing toxic nutrients up to the trees that you wanted to manifest.

[00:42:14] Let me finish real quick. And they're also. Top soils that may be holding the seedling down, that you may not be aware of constructs perception wise, what I think, what others think of me personality, what I want you to think of me or ego, right? What I think of me in a, nonproductive negative way, these are holding down.

[00:42:41] The vision blossoming into a mighty Oak tree as an example. So everything that we have been talking about in my mind simply set for me is how can I produce the best nutrient to manifest, to actualize the fruit that I'm trying to bear as well as reducing any kind of burden that I'll no longer need to carry anymore to free up internal resources.

[00:43:09] To manifest in the world, go ahead.

[00:43:11] Andrzej: [00:43:11] Your practice fits into another practice that I do, but it's not my daily practice. It's an annual and quarterly and monthly practice. And it starts with the annual practice of really going through and auditing your life and upgrading your life plan.

[00:43:32] On an annual basis. And it's something that I picked up along the way where for every one of those branches, as you've called them, I called them categories of improvement in your professional, in your personal, you've got those categories of improvement. And for each of those categories of improvement, I have a fairly regimented process that I go through.

[00:43:52] What are the outcomes that I want? Why do I want to achieve them? So let's say in my physicality, right? What. What are the outcomes? Why? Because without the why none of the outcome matters, you're never going to achieve the outcome without the why. And then I go through what are the three things that if I did on a consistent basis, I'm going to get 80% of results with 20% of actions.

[00:44:19] And I actually list them out. If I did nothing else on a weekly basis, then those three actions for this particular branch of my life, then I would be really happy with it. Then one of the practices you do is figure out the things that are stopping you, right? Whether emotionally your from the external world, whatever it is, that's a beautiful thing to fit into that practice of auditing your life.

[00:44:46] And then I go and become very specific, right? So in order for me to achieve those outcomes and, the why. What are the actual specific goals that I need to hit this year and then every quarter and within every quarter, every month, and then within every month, every week in order to actually achieve that.

[00:45:07] And I'm very regimented about it because a lot of people do their annual goals, might do their quarterly goals. I take it all the way down to the daily level. I review my most on my way to work every day. And then my incantations, I income those goals every day. My goals for this year, my goals for this date.

[00:45:28] So figuring out for yourself, what is your life's blueprint is one of the most important exercises you can ever do, and then figure out the daily habits. And that's my last piece. What are the daily habits that I need to do in order to support myself energetically in this work?

[00:45:48] CK Lin: [00:45:48] Yeah. Personally, I love it.

[00:45:51] The very regimented daily disciplines. That's my favorite approach. So, let me actually ask you a question. How do you, so there's a saying in Chinese, when you're too rigid, you become brittle when you're too flexible and then you're you don't have a backbone, right? So again, for me, I'm a middleweight guy, so somewhere in the middle, so that can be both strong as well as resilient.

[00:46:17] What we had just talked about is the structure to be to have strength, to have that spine. So can you share with us a little bit about how you remain flexible, right. Resilient. So then, you're not fix it locally, have a local maximization, rather you can, you are still open in inflow. I know that you mentioned about your evening one hour of silence.

[00:46:44] So that's one practice. Are there other practices that allows you to be flexible and resilient and being flow?

[00:46:52] Andrzej: [00:46:52] Yeah.

[00:46:53] You listen to yourself throughout the day. It comes back to feeling right. A lot of people in business say, take the feeling out, focus on, the tasks at hand. I don't think so. I used to do that in investment banking.

[00:47:09] I did not like myself. Particularly much without really listening to me. And to me, it's all about again, living a congruent life. So what I have described to you as a very regimented process, what that regimented process, right? Life is all about ying and yang. And you said that too, right? So on the one hand, you've got the regimented process.

[00:47:33] On the other hand, you've got the the feminine side of you that is always going to want. More flexibility and more flow, right? You have to listen to both of them throughout the day. And so in my case part of the reason why I like to review my goals on a daily basis is because I may not particularly want to do anything during that day, but I'm making a conscious decision on doing that because my flow side is saying to me, hang on, you overly crazy structured person today, right?

[00:48:08] CK Lin: [00:48:08] Yeah.

[00:48:08] Andrzej: [00:48:08] So there is that daily interaction of you yourself with yourself,

[00:48:13] CK Lin: [00:48:13] and

[00:48:13] Andrzej: [00:48:13] also having not structured for me on the one hand allows the true North, and then it gets shocked juxtaposed with the other true North of, as I go through the weeks and months, some of those monthly goals will fall apart and it's because I no longer felt that they were congruent with who I am.

[00:48:36] And now today may have been three months ago, but it's not today, but I'm making a conscious decision of it rather than allowing life to drag me.

[00:48:47]CK Lin: [00:48:47] What you just mentioned it's I think it was important practice.

[00:48:51] I want to dive deeper. There is the art of learning, letting go, because big one. Yeah, a huge one. Part of the suffering that I've learned from the mechanics of learning Buddhist practice from a Vipassana is more suffering comes from craving something you don't yet have, or averting something that you do have.

[00:49:15] So, a huge part of it is letting go, is one of those things, two words, easy to say, not so easy to do. So in your letting go of your goals in your transitioning from different. Identities that you have, how do you practice letting go with little bit more grace and a little bit more dignity without the drama and suffering?

[00:49:42] Andrzej: [00:49:42] Yeah. It all starts with letting go of ego. So everybody's got an ego. It can be more prevalent, less prevalent. It doesn't matter. It's the healing and yang, right? The problem is that evil comes more from the, drive and more from the masculine.

[00:50:03] And if you allow your ego to take over then the flow and the feminine side gets shut off and a recipe for disaster. So when I look at my life I grew up as an economist. Then investment banker also congressional staffer. As you've said out, when people look at my resume, they opened their eyes and I used to live in that resume and letting go of that resume and allowing the learnings to be what drives me rather than the titles has been a very eyeopening experience.

[00:50:44] CK Lin: [00:50:44] Do you do that though? How do you do that?

[00:50:47] Andrzej: [00:50:47] You don't allow yourself to to live in the, Oh my God, he's a Harvard guy or, Oh my God, he's a whatever guy or the investment banker, right? You actually, I'll give you a perfect case. In point, when you up into a conversation you allow the conversation to flow based on the energy of the conversation.

[00:51:13] Not based on the titles. Not based on hierarchy, not based on I'm here because of XYZ. And that can be a difficult one for some people, right? If you've been elected Senator, Oh shit, you've worked hard to get that title. And so a lot of people think that I should use the fact that I'm a Senator to throw my weight around.

[00:51:35] I used to believe that too. I want anymore, although my ego sometimes does kick in most dealing with a bully. And I need to pull out my resume to whip them around a little bit. Yeah. But, generally I hate using that because it just it, just feels icky.

[00:51:55] CK Lin: [00:51:55] Yeah.

[00:51:56] Andrzej: [00:51:56] Which brings, us back to the earlier part of our conversation, which is don't allow others to make you feel anything, you yourself feel how you want, you don't allow the external world to dictate how you should feel. So if you meet somebody that's contained chorus, don't take that on yourself. And if you meet somebody that is cursing you out, for whatever reason they're cursing you out because of something that's happening in their life and have nothing to do with you, unless you believe that it does have anything to do with you and that's a whole nother topic, right? It goes back to

[00:52:33]CK Lin: [00:52:33] I want to drill in on a couple of points. If you can share with us how you are actually being flexible with all your identities.

[00:52:42] I think that would be super helpful because what you're saying is just recognizes the ego. A hundred percent agree, but it's also not easy to do. Cause I would say for myself in my younger days, I also used to throw all my titles within three seconds. Hey, I'm Dr. , blah, blah, blah. And in hindsight I was like, that was so stupid.

[00:53:03] Why do I do that? But automatically, because we play the game of status and power. And then I got to measure myself up with the game, right?  I'm curious. So how do you let go of your egoic identities? So then you can be more fluid, so they don't drive you and you use them when need

[00:53:28] Andrzej: [00:53:28] be the easiest way I would say it is you don't, you never lose your ego, right? It's there it's an, it should be, but you drown it out with purpose. On the purpose in your life and the ego will be used instead of you being used by the ego, being used by you to drive your purpose. So in my case, I have decided that I want to help empower leaders and the private sector and sector to take control over their cybersecurity.

[00:54:09] So that they can build those cyber secure first cultures for their organizations and for their families and their communities. And so I wrapped every bit of who I've been to serve that purpose. And when you're using those, pieces of you for a purpose it's no longer ego driving you. It's ego being pulled at strategic points.

[00:54:37] Where it needs to be deployed to drive that purpose.

[00:54:40] CK Lin: [00:54:40] Okay. So you go into the conversation with your intention in mind. Hey, here's my purpose. You go in there also with an open arm. I don't have a particular agenda to use my particular tools. And then if need be, then you pull out this particular tool, the identity, the ego, whatever to serve this purpose is that I accurate recap or what you just said.

[00:55:03] Andrzej: [00:55:03] And take one example take one thing as an example, right? So I mentioned you never lose your ego, quite the opposite. Use your ego strategically for me. I, have a thing about bullies, right? Part of the reason probably why I'm in cybersecurity. When I see a bully hurting somebody else, I go to town, right?

[00:55:27] If that person is. Aware that they're being a bully and they're doing it on purpose. I leave not a dry threat, but for that to happen, it's being done strategically. It's not being done because that's who I am. Does that make sense?

[00:55:43] CK Lin: [00:55:43] It does it at the same time that the ego expression is so seductive once you get it going and it's another, I don't know if you know exactly what I mean. So once you get a win, yeah. The person, for example, And then it's easy to say to, to amp it up even more to get that little bit of a payoff, but we don't have to go down that rabbit hole if you don't want to. It's one of those things that I, think about a lot it's and for me, you are a practitioner or where you're talking about that you're you are not only Aware of the, spiritual principles, but you're also practicing it and you do it well, you're effective in, the multiple domains.

[00:56:32] And that's why it's so interesting. Whenever I talk to someone like that, it's my mind. It's simply as simpler to be a monk in a mountain top because they don't have to don't have all these other considerations that householders have. It's easy to talk to someone who is poorly egoic, cause the person is all about power greed and status.

[00:56:55] Cause I, okay. So that's, but it's, not often when I see someone who is able to do both and do both really well

[00:57:07] Andrzej: [00:57:07] Thank you for the, compliment, but we're all on a path to growth. And the first thing that I always try to do these days is never judge. I don't care whether you're a superbly wealthy or or you're a homeless person.

[00:57:25] Everybody's got a story. And the first thing that I try to never do is judge, even a person that is living out of their ego. They're living out of that ego because of conditions in their life. They may or may not have been aware enough about what those conditions were and how they created them into the person they are today.

[00:57:44] But that may or may not be their fault. Did they have the upbringing that would then teach them that thing to look deeper? In my case, for better or worse, I've had enough lessons in my life to have to not necessarily to have to, but to be given the opportunity, to look deeper insight. And I chose to do the tougher thing and really do look inside.

[00:58:09] And what I found was something that I really wasn't pleased with. And so that. Allowed me to peel the layers of the onion further and further until I started learning. Aha. This is where I was going not wrong, but in a way that's actually in congruent with who I really am. Okay. Let's learn.

[00:58:27] Let's shift. Let's upgrade. Let's upgrade. Let's upgrade. That's how I came to look at it. And so I started judging people less and less because when I looked at my own journey, I realized, Holy smokes, this is hard. And it is easier to live in your ego, much easier but to have to look inside and then have to come out to the external world and live it every day with whether it's employees that are not even close to being on a level on a path towards awareness or dealing with individuals that are far ahead of you, and you get yourself into that relationship and you realize, Holy smokes I'm not, the person. That person is way ahead of me. I really need to catch up or else. This is not going to work. That kind of constant realization about yourself, which comes from daily practice of looking inside and asking yourself, okay, I'm not happy about what I'm seeing.

[00:59:27] Why am I not happy about it? That why, lie? That seven layers deep becomes very important. So

[00:59:35] CK Lin: [00:59:35] you're speaking to a fellow seeker as well. In my mind that the way my brain works is the more we talk about it.

[00:59:43] The more we'll put language around is the more I can dissect and really understand the attributes of what it is I'm trying to articulate. So, it's not just. Oh, just be happy like this more for concept. Here are some attributes about it and this and that. Here's how I think about it so we can have intelligent

[01:00:00] Andrzej: [01:00:00] conversation.

[01:00:01] So

[01:00:01] CK Lin: [01:00:01] that's what gives me fulfillment. So, I was speaking to a previous guest who was a corporate,

[01:00:09] Andrzej: [01:00:09] you said corporate Sharman.

[01:00:11] CK Lin: [01:00:11] Yeah.

[01:00:12] He said to me Doing what we're doing here. And now being a seeker is not necessarily more conducive for a fulfilling life. He's met some people who is totally unaware, but they're just having a great life. They just, they're just being it. They don't even talk about it. Did they skip all of the talking about it and just be it?

[01:00:36] So I'm curious to know as a, practitioner why, do you. Dissect and talk about, and articulate and discuss things like this, versus just skipping ahead to the end result of living in bliss all day, every day

[01:01:01] Andrzej: [01:01:01] It's both for all of us, it's both it's function of how much of a dial into one or the other you, you are.

[01:01:10] In my case, I'm a believer in past lives and the lessons that you've learned in past lives. And I've done enough around that topic to be anything, but I believe of past lives. And pulling out the lessons out of past lives or even your current life as a child, some of those lessons are ingrained.

[01:01:34] And so you're living them out naturally. And sometimes I do things that I'm like, how the hell did I learn to think like that or be that, and you don't gain a level of consciousness around the why until you do some of that homework on yourself and on your potential past lives to figure out where, is this coming from?

[01:01:55] I like knowing, so that's my process. Yeah. One hand are those unconscious things that you're learning. But on the other hand, we've also been brought to this earth. So this to this particular experience in the universe to expand on who we've been, and those lessons are the next stage. And so that naturally requires a certain level of learning.

[01:02:23] So one of the questions that gets asked is why do we have the parents that we have? Yeah. Why did we choose those parents? There is a major component of the spiritual world that believes that we choose our parents, but we choose our siblings. And so when you put that hat on, you ask yourself, why the hell would I ever choose my, my, my, whoever, my sister or my brother.

[01:02:50] And yet you did. And yet you did. So why did you, what lessons did your sister or brother or parents need to teach you? Or how, are they meant to shepherd you through this life in order for you to become your highest version of yourself in this life was a very interesting question, but questions, but again, some of it you're already living some of the things that I'm living, I'm not questioning, I'm just living them.

[01:03:17] And people comment, Oh my God, you're this or that. And I say, really, I didn't really notice because you look naturally, I'm sure you've had plenty of situations like that, but a lot worse. You're constantly seeking the answer too, because that's your next level of iteration.

[01:03:31] CK Lin: [01:03:31] Yeah. I can't help it. It's the desire to learn that desire, to know the desire to talk to others about it. It's just something that's within me or you can quench that fire. So

[01:03:44] thanks for sharing.

[01:03:46] Andrzej: [01:03:46] You

[01:03:48] CK Lin: [01:03:48] can do it. You can do it.

[01:03:49] I'm so glad that now we get to to, be able to use that fire for something for the public. Good. And

[01:03:57] Andrzej: [01:03:57] it's

[01:03:57] hard, right? For entrepreneurs. It's difficult. I remember when I opened my first company, literally the company had me There was no meat. I was 80 pounds heavier. I was over eating all the time because you're entertaining all the time.

[01:04:12] You're traveling the globe all the time. I was in meetings all the time I was on, conference calls all the time. There was no me And for me, that process was that contrast that I needed to wake the hell up and say wait a minute. Who am I right? I'm not sharing my shareholders. I'm not my customers.

[01:04:31] I'm not my board. I'm not my investors where the hell is neat. And so right, wherever you are at in your journey, the question is around the next set of levels that would bring you closer to who you want to be and the who you want to be really comes from your intuition. And so working on your intuition, if you're not particularly strong at it, and I used to not listen to my intuition.

[01:04:57] So even figuring out that process of how to listen to your intuition,

[01:05:01] CK Lin: [01:05:01] let's actually talk about that the journey pre intuition to cultivation to now listening or, and, or being devoted to intuition. And you share with us a little bit about that journey. I think it's important for very heady people to hear from not just me, but someone else about that

[01:05:20] journey.

[01:05:21] Andrzej: [01:05:21] Yeah. You and me both the degrees that I have,

[01:05:26] the guy, no, I saw, yes. I saw

[01:05:30] cause truly right. School doesn't teach you any of this stuff. I'm privileged enough to have graduated from two of the best schools, right? Wharton, MBA and, Harvard master's in public administration. And as much as I respect both of them, I tell the career management teams of both schools that.

[01:05:50] We suck at teaching life. And part of that is the conversation that we're having together today. So intuition how do you listen to your

[01:06:03] intuition?

[01:06:05] CK Lin: [01:06:05] Me?

[01:06:06] Andrzej: [01:06:06] Yeah.

[01:06:08] CK Lin: [01:06:08] Yeah. Great question. I would say so I'll share sort of the origin story. So before. My body's role is just to carry my head. I didn't care about anything else.

[01:06:23] The whole thing was to optimize this and then through my own journey and seeking an exploration and also falling my face. If more than a few times, I realized, Oh, I have four boosters on my rocket. Why am I only using one it's dumb. If I ultimately, if I care to optimize my life, Integrate all of them.

[01:06:46] Andrzej: [01:06:46] And what were those four boosters?

[01:06:50] CK Lin: [01:06:50] The body, the mind, the heart and the spirit, minimally on the self. Cool. So, the more I realized the wisdom is in the totality of the mind, the heart and the body, and these days, how I listen to my intuition. Is I think the best experience of that is it's not even a voice as an inner knowing.

[01:07:20] So I especially doing like a plant medicine ceremony or something like that. Whereas just like this is it now write it down and then I'll can go back to look for evidence using the mind. I'm not saying to just surrender and trust, whatever voice that's coming through. The body or anything is, it's more of a, just a inner knowing.

[01:07:41] And at the same time I'm going to also verify it, do my research. And it's Oh, okay. That makes sense. Then move forward. That's how I'm going about it right now today.

[01:07:53] Andrzej: [01:07:53] Yeah. Mine is in some respects, very similar and then some different, and I'll share with you.

[01:08:05] The process that for me has unlocked my intuition a lot more and share with you how it happens on a day-to-day basis these days. It all started with meditating more and it wasn't that all of a sudden ideas started coming to me in the middle of meditations. Sometimes that was the case sometimes not, but most of the time, no, but the process of meditating put me on a vibration that throughout the day, Allowed micro messages to come.

[01:08:39] I still didn't listen to them. I get a hunch about something and my mind immediately overloaded with rationale, for whatever direction I was going in at that point. And then obviously life beats you around enough and you start saying to yourself, okay, this route isn't particularly working.

[01:08:58] So what else? That's why I realized. I'm not really listening to my intuition very much so how do I become better at it? And I think it was Abraham Hicks that turned me onto this idea of just follow our hunch, even if you have absolutely zero or optional reason for for needing to follow that hunch or quite the opposite, your rationale.

[01:09:24] Leads you in the exact opposite direction. And so even if it was something as simple as I'm walking down the street and I usually take this path. All of a sudden, I have this slight inkling to take this path today. And I would write listening to those small hunches and in and of themselves a tiny little hunch, like that might not mean anything.

[01:09:48] But in totality, what listened to those more and more has allowed me to do is to become more prolific. I listening to my body and what my spirit is telling you without allowing this to drown it out

[01:10:03] and

[01:10:04] CK Lin: [01:10:04] quick question, how do you separate neurotic thoughts, mental chatters, just things that's floating around versus the,

[01:10:15] Andrzej: [01:10:15] so how does it make me feel?

[01:10:19] Make me feel congruent with out of a person that I want to be. Am I, is that hunch either at the very least neutral or is it getting me into a positive territory of either achieving my purpose or enjoy in that moment or enjoy in the day, et cetera. And it can be as simple as. You and I spoke about leading with ego and conversations previously, right?

[01:10:50] These days, whenever I lead with ego, I immediately get this April thing of, Oh my God. I lead with my resume again. Yes, I get it. I love to make, people feel good. I don't know. That's always been me and I've certainly gone through my phase in my life where I didn't, to me, it was all about, I won this achievement and that achievement and this and that.

[01:11:20] It just at the end of the day made you feel empty. Like you move for yourself, but that self was just an Island and it just didn't feel again congruent. And so to the extent that hunch brings you either into a place of neutrality or positivity, Yeah, I'll follow it. And then in totality, it starts to cultivate that intuition a little bit more.

[01:11:44] CK Lin: [01:11:44] What's the most so thinking about all the random path that you have, explore and enjoy and follow what's the most counter-intuitive things that you do. Like why the heck that I do that by? Wow. What a, lesson

[01:12:01] Andrzej: [01:12:01] cybersecurity. In a million years, would I have thought that I learned in cybersecurity?

[01:12:08] Ever when I was a kid, hell, when I was in college, I was the last person to update anything. As far as my cybersecurity, in fact, my brother till this day laughs that he's the one that used to put computers together. And he's the one that would always remind me back up your computer or else you're going to lose everything.

[01:12:27] And I sure did. And lo and behold, I didn't learn those lessons early enough. And so the way that I started in cybersecurity is. I led a very successful venture out of Hong Kong. We garnered quite a bit of attention and we were the media darling of Asia and I was in Forbes and toddler and Vogue and all that jazz.

[01:12:52] And as we garner positive attention, we also garnered not so positive attention from individuals that wanted us for themselves. And when they couldn't have us for themselves, they hacked us. Hadn't. Added disinformation to otherwise illegally obtained innocent information and Rove out disinformation to a point where the rest of the board was tired of dealing with the disinformation.

[01:13:19] And at a time when we hadn't we, didn't reach profitability yet. And so our revenue was not far enough to to make the company survive without the. Promised investment capital from the board. And so the rest of the board out voted me to shut the company down that was otherwise producing revenue and valued at 25 million bucks.

[01:13:39] And that lesson threw me into the world of cybersecurity and disinformation campaign countering when I would have never, in a million years imagined that I would be in this role. But that's how life unfolds, right? So you got a lesson in life early on.

[01:14:02] You don't learn that lesson comes back twofold, and then you don't learn that comes back to fall of that until it becomes painful enough. And so unless you learn that lesson, I clearly wasn't learning my lesson in the early days. And again we come back to that spiritual awakening. How am I learning from the simple lessons in life become before they become painful enough where the stakes are really high.

[01:14:27] And so this morning I said, enough is enough. And so the confluence of everything just happened to put me on the staff, but to answer your question that was probably the biggest surprise of my life.

[01:14:39] CK Lin: [01:14:39] I love it. There's a phrasing Chinese and saying that Swanton, Kula. It means life has different flavors sour,

[01:14:50] bitter,

[01:14:52] spicy, and sweet and all the things.

[01:14:55] And if you think about another metaphor be like roller coaster, it's not really a roller coaster. If you just keep falling down, it's not say if you keep going up, the joy of rolling Kosar is actually a twist left and right up and down side OSI. I try. I try to think about it this way.

[01:15:17] And ultimately all everything really is a blessing. The fact that whatever I fail whenever I succeed, whenever I have conversations it's all, wind.

[01:15:28] Andrzej: [01:15:28] It all comes back to seriously guys for everybody listening in every single topic has the good side or the positive side of thinking about it and the negative side, everything.

[01:15:42] I don't care whether you're talking about a friend bitching and moaning to you about something that has a positive side to it as well. If they can't find it, you find it right, because that allows you to live a more empowering life. Same thing with you. Whenever you find yourself having negative chatter around something what's the positive side of it.

[01:16:02] When, what happened with, my company happens to me, a lot of people said, Oh my God, I couldn't get out of bed. If that happened to me, what. No, you look at that as a blessing in your life and you figure out all the lessons out of it and you bring that, and those lessons too as I did in, in, in my current endeavors, a higher purpose of bringing cybersecurity to boards, to private sectors, et cetera, and transforming your pain into a bigger benefit for the world, wherever that is.

[01:16:37]CK Lin: [01:16:37] One of the quotes that we share a lot in this podcast a lot is our superpowers come from overcoming our biggest wounds. Yeah. So from that failure that you had in Hong Kong, now, all of a sudden you have this greater awareness and greater commitment and purpose and capability to empower others, not to enjoy the pain that you endure of losing your company or whatever, is that

[01:17:04] Andrzej: [01:17:04] accurate?

[01:17:05] Yeah. And I would say it in even a slightly different direction, which is, there are no failures in life only lessons learned or not alert, but

[01:17:17] CK Lin: [01:17:17] yeah. So I also want to get into, cause in my mind, some of the biggest skills that we have been talking about is unlearning, right? Letting go of identity and attachment.

[01:17:30] So let's talk about learning because you have learned many different things, very quickly, language career lifestyle, everything. So can you share with us a little bit of the meta process of how you say now? All of a sudden you want to get into so some random for you, you want to get into, how would you go about cryptocurrency? Let's say, how would you go about. Merging cryptocurrency into this phone of skillsets that you

[01:18:00] Andrzej: [01:18:00] very easily for me for whatever reason, one of the gifts that I've been blessed with is being able to pick things up very quickly and running with them and becoming not just proficient in them, but I, won't quite say a thought leader but, ahead in that.

[01:18:21] And it all comes from curiosity. I'm not sure that I would describe it in any other way. I'm a person that learned how to have to pull myself up by the bootstraps very early on. My, my mom immigrated to New York from Poland when I was 14. And when I came to New York seven months after her she said, yeah, I realized that.

[01:18:52] You were supposed to go back to Poland after the summer, but I bought you one way tickets. And so no English in Greenpoint, in New York immigrants discrimination left and right in school. All right. On top of that, you don't speak the language. And on top of that, your family doesn't speak the language.

[01:19:14] And so at the age of 14, you have to become the de facto father. Because you're the only person that, can learn English fast enough to shepherd the family through the early stages of, being in the us and finding itself in the U S and you talked about superpowers.

[01:19:34] That's how I earned my early one of my early superpowers it's to have to learn how to adapt quickly. And so even when I went to Japan as a, as an exchange student at the age of 18, after two years of high school, Japanese in New York, I thought I was fluent. And then I got up the bullet train in Kyoto to meet my concise dialect speaking, Japanese family, to realize I don't understand a single word there in the middle of the rice fields and a dictionary that was super clean at the beginning of the experience became completely dirty by the end of the six weeks.

[01:20:13] Yeah. It's those kinds of experiences, the same way I picked up Chinese by moving to Beijing without a word and Chinese, et cetera. So you just immersion full immersion immediately. Same thing happened with cybersecurity. I said, I'm going to go full throttle on it. And I got myself to study under secretary of defense, Ash, Carter and secretary of assistant secretary of defense, Eric Rosenbach at the Harvard Kennedy school and went through immersion, like none other.

[01:20:44] So again, to me, it's all about immersion. You want something, you go after it full throttle and you tune out all the noise you go at times.

[01:20:52] CK Lin: [01:20:52] So let me do a groupie recap because just the way you said it, it sounds similar. Oh, I just made a decision. I did it. Yes. Let me unpack what I heard. What I heard is you made a decision to go full commitment into cybersecurity or whatever it is that you're going after.

[01:21:09] Sure. Yeah. The need for immersion right, away. Jump into the deep end. And that you learn from the best teacher that you can find at the time

[01:21:20] Andrzej: [01:21:20] only from the best. Okay. And I used to, and still do get a lot of flack from others who have said, including at Harvard, I will never forget this. I was in one class at Harvard on leadership.

[01:21:33] And I got a lot of shit. Pardon my French for supposedly not wanting to learn from everybody. I said, that's the biggest crock of poo I've ever heard. It's not that I don't want to learn from everybody it's that everybody's got 24 hours in a day. And you either learn investing from Warren buffet.

[01:21:50] Or you don't right. Who are you going to learn from? You're going to learn from the best, why? Because you've got 24 hours in a day and you want to be the best version of you that you can be so that you can serve others at a much higher level. This is not that I can't, or don't want to learn from everybody else quite the opposite, but you want to start at the highest level and therefore

[01:22:12] CK Lin: [01:22:12] okay. So let's unpack that for a bit because we have a podcast full of. Overachievers like the two of us here. So share with us your meetup process of finding the teacher, the right GuRU or master or the sensei that's worthy of your time in terms of learning, acquiring a new

[01:22:34] skill.

[01:22:35] Andrzej: [01:22:35] It all depends on which area of your life you want to delve into first.

[01:22:40] What's the problem I'm trying to solve.

[01:22:42] CK Lin: [01:22:42] Yeah.

[01:22:43] Andrzej: [01:22:43] All the resources. Then all the questions that I want to answer around that problem. And then what are the resources that would get me 80, 20, 80% of the results with 20% of actions? Hell that's even the process that we follow with our VIP cybersecurity blueprint.

[01:23:01] We're not asking CEOs to be dumb, CTS. Hell no, I don't want to become a seat. All right. The CTO's there for a reason. They, feel a particular purpose and at a much higher level than I ever could. But I am responsible for the culture of the organization. And therefore I want the 20% of actions that are going to allow me to drive 80% of the culture.

[01:23:24] That's going to get most of the results necessary. Same thing with everything else. When I started cybersecurity, I asked myself the question what's the experience that's going to push the farthest fastest when I want it to become an entrepreneur. What's the experience right? Diving off the deep end.

[01:23:43] That's going to allow me to get out what I want to get out to the market fastest. At that time, it meant move yourself from New York city and our cushy investment banking job into a startup situation in Hong Kong live in a shitty apartment for the first year and a half, because you're trying to build a company, whatever it is.

[01:24:03] You've got to strip down all the nonsense and drown out the cacophony and just go at it. Focus.

[01:24:10] CK Lin: [01:24:10] Yeah. So one of the realization that I had around the whole idea of 80 20, a hundred percent agree, however, from my reflecting my personal journey I rarely find the 20% that generates 80% results. Looking ahead, I can look backwards and say, Oh, those 20% generated 80% of results.

[01:24:35] So can you. Project for not knowing, not getting into the situation, identify the 20% that's going to create 80% of the results.

[01:24:49] Andrzej: [01:24:49] Yes and no, it depends on what problem you're solving. If you're an astrophysicist, trying to figure out a new planetary or solar system and he's walked in your shoes before.

[01:25:02] You're right. You need to figure out your best estimate of the. 20%, that's going to get you 80% far furthest. Most of the time, there are people that have walked in your shoes. So for example, one of the lessons that I needed to learn is how do I build a scalable marketing and sales enterprise that does not require countless salespeople, countless marketers.

[01:25:30] And it doesn't require me in that process all the time. When, I was CEO of my startup, I was the fundraiser. I was the chief marketer. I was the chief sales person and all salespeople always looked to me. That was the biggest crock of Pooh I've ever seen. And so you learn but I'm also not the only executive that issuance.

[01:25:51] So I started looking more and more to model the ones that have really been successful in that. Similarly, when I, had a spurt last year, Pre COVID clearly when I was literally traveling 95 plus percent of the time across nine countries, three continents, I was in New York, literally one day out of out of every week on average.

[01:26:17] And so then I needed to work out and my assistant said, boss, I can not find a gym that allow you to have a membership for three days before you move on to the next country. And so I said, okay wait a minute. I cannot possibly be the only exec on the road. That needs to eat healthy and live healthy.

[01:26:34] So there's gotta be a system. And I asked and asked until I found it. So constantly tried to model somebody else. That's walked in your shoes

[01:26:43] and pots,

[01:26:44] CK Lin: [01:26:44] some laws on that for a moment. How do you ask that question? Do you just blast it on Facebook? Do you blast it to everyone on your mailing list?

[01:26:53] Are you do you, read books to trying to find answers, tell us how you find the best teachers?

[01:27:02] Andrzej: [01:27:02] Of any tool that is available to you? I'm one of the tangible benefits of having the background that I do is I have a phenomenal business and political network. And so when I have questions around that, I go to my network I've, increasingly gone the book route.

[01:27:23] What's a respected author on a topic that I want to ask the question about, and it literally, you're going to be you're going to be to surprised by what I'm about to say. I've become really good at the external stuff fairly early on. In other words, I need to figure out how to make more, impact in the world or more money in the world or, become a better sales person, et cetera.

[01:27:50] That's fairly easy to figure out the question about and find the, answers. The one that I struggled with is what's happened here, how to audit what's happening in my mindset, how to listen to it. Literally how to even figure out what am I thinking right now? Is it serving me? Is it not serving me?

[01:28:10] How do I audit it? As if you are literally looking at your P and L and balance sheet and cashflow statement, right? How do I look at what's happening here and audit it and say great it on a scale of one to five, right? How am I doing there? And all of a sudden ask yourself the question of man, I am thinking negatively about this and this area.

[01:28:35] How can I get better at it? And so I literally started doing things as simple as a Google Abraham Hicks on topic XYZ or Tony Robbins on topic XYZ, literally in the moment. I don't care if I'm going to the bathroom. I don't care if I'm in the shower and the shower, I've got my speaker. That's waterproof.

[01:28:56] So I can put something on YouTube and listen to it in the shower. Every single moment of my day is filled up by something either by silence and meditation or by something progress full. And so I asked the question and find the answer on something as simple as YouTube, right? I of course, limited to people that I would normally listen to.

[01:29:19] So Tony Robbins, I know is not going to teach me bullshit. I know Abraham Hicks is not going to teach me BS. If I'm studying sales, somebody like a Gary Vaynerchuk or or a Gary Vaynerchuk butcher his last name or Russell Brunson, right? Those kinds of individuals who really have gone from zero or, grant Cardone, individuals that have made centi million dollar, if not bigger companies from nothing. Those are the guys. I am the listened to. And that's actually counterintuitive to my background, right? If I pulled out my Wharton MBA on you, those guys are thought about as a sleazeballs. They didn't get to be who they are without serious work.

[01:30:08] So I'm being very pragmatic every day and every moment, as much as I can.

[01:30:13] CK Lin: [01:30:13] So let's actually go into what you just said, the external and the tactics and strategy. Those things are more available and easier to point to because it's external, right? You can point to a thing, right? A book or something seminar, and however, going inward and excavate the depth of who we are, the deep insight that's hidden within us.

[01:30:37] That's already there. The answer is already within us. And in my mind is one of the biggest challenges in life and my friend and I, we actually had a conversation. He's a physicist. We, talked about the nature of choice, free choice does it actually exist? And then we can, there's a whole rabbit hole we can spend probably another podcast on it, but it comes down to ultimately on your network.

[01:31:08] It's full of conflicting choices and conflicting interests all the time in this moment, I'm engaged with you, Andre, but I'm also thinking about smoothie. I'm thinking about some errands. I'm not saying it's happening right now, but if I tune my attention to it's there, but I'm focusing on and you,

[01:31:27] Andrzej: [01:31:27] wherever energy, wherever focus goes, energy flows.

[01:31:31]CK Lin: [01:31:31] So in your journey, in. Quote unquote, and solving this problem or diving deeper into uncovering the deepest part of who you are in spite of all these layers of neurotic thoughts that you may have. What have you come across? You'd be the most authoritative w what's your 80 20, right?

[01:31:55] What's this 20%. Isn't going to get you to the deepest.

[01:31:59] Andrzej: [01:31:59] Yeah. Great question. And there's a very succinct answer. Okay. Is the sensor with one thing. This is actually quite stupid this, however, and so the more you listen to this and your intuition and guidance, the more you're using this as a tool, we be used by it.

[01:32:22] Now for me I don't know if I shared this with you. I was in a. A relationship with a man that I love of my life. And I realized through numerous situations that really, he was far ahead of me and the spiritual journey. And long story short, I broke up with him realizing that was the stupidest thing I've ever done.

[01:32:56] And then realizing that everything happens for a reason. And that said on the one hand, the other side of it was, I'm not sure that I ever cried as much in my entire life. So you, go into that pain, you go into that pain and you excavate and it's even more painful and you cry even more.

[01:33:16] And you figure out why and why am I allowing somebody else to have this much hold over me? I don't care whether it's your boss at work or your shareholder or your significant other, no, nobody right. Should have that much power over you. And so you go inside. And in my case, I realized, Oh my God, I was living.

[01:33:39] I was allowing the other person to dictate move rather than. Fully showing up in the relationship and loving the person for who they are not learning them to be something different and even worse yet, allowing my self-worth to be determined by what they thought about more or didn't right. And that can, that has corollaries across the business, right?

[01:34:02] Business partners. How do you choose them or shareholders? How do you choose them? All of that. And so you have to go deeper and deeper and two things, that three things that really allowed me to skip generations, not just years, but generations and, probably even, and centuries in some respects is first Abraham Hicks,

[01:34:31] CK Lin: [01:34:31] any specific place to start for those who are interested?

[01:34:35] Andrzej: [01:34:35] Yeah. Abraham. You want me to say who Abraham Hicks is or

[01:34:41] CK Lin: [01:34:41] any what should they Google Abraham Hicks and a book Abraham Hicks or any place to start? Cause he

[01:34:50] Andrzej: [01:34:50] start, if you have Spotify, I would just put Abraham Hicks into Spotify and start off with the law of attraction, law of deliberate creation and law of intent.

[01:35:02] It's the three first chapters, all of an introduction into the Abraham art world. And that will then from there guide you on different branches that will start really appealing of all the angles. So I promise you CK, the moment you start listening to Abraham mix, all that ego bullshit is going to go outside.

[01:35:24] That's a promise. If you really surrender, it's really rendering. The other thing that I went through. As the second stage Abraham Hicks is something that a dear friend who unfortunately passed away recently invented, which is Akasha the game of life. I think the, your URL is play Akasha or a crush of the game of life.

[01:35:51]And it's a 30 day process of daily meditations and excavations that is specifically geared to you, right? And this is where you have to if you don't believe in the Zodiac tough luck.

[01:36:11] It's based on Zodiac and everything around your celestial. Configurations, et cetera. And I'll tell you when you go through it. And if your intuition is starting to already kick in, you'll start seeing why some of those things really are true for you. I'll give you my personal example.

[01:36:31] When I started going through the Akasha game of life immediately I started seeing why the messages that were being thrown at me were not only. Eye opening to me around, or I got these messages could not possibly be coming to me. If it were about somebody else, because it's literally as if they were written specifically for me.

[01:36:56]By the end of that game, I learned so much about my blind science. And that's one of the biggest lessons in life you can learn. And it gave me so many tools to within the day, within the moment deal with those blind sites that I immediately became a better executive, better, intuitive period, a better human interactor right.

[01:37:27] It's all about energy and energy reading. And that entire 30 day process, just exponentially challenged the shit out of me.  The other one. And it's something that I've been meaning to do. And starting that process as we speak actually is the Venus sequence, which goes way deeper than even Akasha went.

[01:37:50] And that has everything to do with your gene Keats. Who are you really? And how does the external world affect that? How does it not? It literally has everything to do with, again, your blind spots, your gifts in this life the synergies with others. And how do you unlock the potential in you by unlocking someone's blind spots and dealing with those blind spots?

[01:38:18] In my case, I learned, for example, through both of those programs, a lot about my old self used to be again, ego-driven. Me ahead of others how do I, achieve the most in my life? Whereas I knew always, since I was a child, that my role in this world was in some way, shape or form to be an empower of change in others and in the world.

[01:38:50] And I always shunned that because. It seemed to be too much of a responsibility. It didn't necessarily build my bank account. Are people want it too much from me. It was energetically draining, et cetera. Until I started learning the tools that would allow me to unlock that potential. And at the same time also allow to rebalance my energy so that energy wasn't depleting me, but rather fueling me so that I could feel that impact even more.

[01:39:23] Yeah, amazing process. You're sending exponentially from there. Those are the three things that I would say Abraham Akasha and Levinas sequence

[01:39:33] CK Lin: [01:39:33] Sequence Rudd.  One of the reason why I'm so excited to talk to you is essentially.

[01:39:45] Why personal one element and you articulated beautifully is not only empowers you to be more effective in who you are as a person who you are as a friend who uses as a, partner who you are in business as a leader and so forth. And he also allows you tools. To uncover excavate the deep insights that you have to uncover blind spots that you know about to change and elevate your consciousness any in the way it's not one or the other.

[01:40:18] It's actually synergistic to do this, to attract together. Is that an accurate reflection of what you said?

[01:40:25] Andrzej: [01:40:25] Yes, it's an, and it's a pain in the behind to do both if you want to live your highest expression, then. Don't shy away from taking on things that may seem to be, in-congruent right.

[01:40:41] For example, in my case cyber security and personal development, like, how the heck am I going to marry those two? You're dealing with individuals in the department of defense that would know what sometimes personal development is. If it hit them in the head because they're literally so busy, That they're living 24 seven on execution.

[01:41:03] And I used to think that, and then I said, wow, what an amazing opportunity, therefore, to bring personal development into that environment to begin with. And so all of a sudden it opened up a whole nother world for me to have that level of impact. So again, if it feels congruent for you, find a way to achieve both, that's it.

[01:41:27] CK Lin: [01:41:27] Yeah, trust that inner calling. So some rapid fire question,

[01:41:33] Andrzej: [01:41:33] go for it.

[01:41:34] CK Lin: [01:41:34] What is your definition of purpose?

[01:41:36] Andrzej: [01:41:36] Andre? There is no one single definition of purpose. It changes throughout your life. I used to think that there is one and, in some respects I still do. In my case, it's impact.

[01:41:50] It's living for a higher calling, but there is no one particular one. Or rather there is that guiding true North star that you will follow. In my case it's, a higher level of impact and really giving back to the world. But the chapters of that is what I'm saying are varied and they changed throughout your life.

[01:42:12] Thank you. You got it. So

[01:42:13] CK Lin: [01:42:13] having had many successes in your life, what's your definition of fulfillment?

[01:42:19] Andrzej: [01:42:19] Are you filming? Are you feeling joyful every day? I'll be very honest with you, right? These days. I, have the privilege of spending time on things and with people that one would think is as a measure of success, to me, it's not, if I'm enjoying what the result of those conversations is and if other people's lives are better because of it.

[01:42:45] Great. Otherwise, no way life's too short.

[01:42:50] CK Lin: [01:42:50] Yes, indeed. So next question, having raised over $7 billion, what's your definition of wealth?

[01:42:58] Andrzej: [01:42:58] Oh my God. It's certainly not financial knowledge, right? That's just a tiny component of it. And even then I live by the definition of financial wealth, the way that bill Gates once described it, once you've made your first million dollars, every dime burger tastes the same.

[01:43:14] So, that's financial wealth. I subscribed to the 95% rule of w Warren buffet. I'm not level where I can execute that 95% myself yet. But the, definition where 95% of your wealth goes towards what our charity causes and you live off 5%. But that's my financial litmus test.

[01:43:39] The other financial litmus test is just empowering as many entrepreneurs as I possibly can. Because if you're driving value for entrepreneurs, Hell. And we have a three hour seminar that's completely free too. I don't care how wealthy you are, right? Because we're trying to bring cybersecurity to, to the corner office of private and government sector at a time when a lot of people don't yet realize that's necessary.

[01:44:04] And wealth to me, therefore is yes it's, financial wealth, but it's impact. And most importantly, it's spiritual wealth. Am I living every single day in a way that brings a smile to my face throughout the day, like today, a woman, I was walking up the stairs of the subway and I just smiled at something.

[01:44:26] And this woman randomly looked at me like, who is this crazy dude? Like, why is he smiling out of nothing? And again, I just walked myself into a place of gratitude and unbeknownst to me, I just had the biggest smile on my face. That's it. Thank you.

[01:44:40] CK Lin: [01:44:40] Beautiful. We also have a lot of serious Noble Warriors listening.

[01:44:46] What do you do to not take yourself too seriously?

[01:44:51] Andrzej: [01:44:51] Yeah it all, comes down to joy. Again, I tend okay. Let's be pragmatic. I tend not to get myself around people that are too serious or negative. I'm allergic to both.

[01:45:08] CK Lin: [01:45:08] Really well, thanks for spending some time with me. I appreciate that.

[01:45:12] Andrzej: [01:45:12] Th that's a I, manifested you a new manifested me. Let's put it this way. And I mean that if I see a negative person, I'll try once. I'll try twice the third time I'm out. If I'm saying something and it's not reverberating with them, then. I'm barking up the wrong tree. And by the way, the same goes with, customers, I subscribe to the Tony Robbins model of customers where sometimes you've got to fire customers too. If a customer is not particularly fitting of the culture, you're trying to create. Our culture of impact, a culture of empowerment, a culture of whatever it is that your definition of, the culture that you're trying to create.

[01:45:54] And the impact you're trying to create is then no harm, no foul, right? The world is big and everybody can coexist. You've gotta be happy every day. You've got to, you've got to have joy at the end of the day. Probably the simplest way to describe it.

[01:46:13] CK Lin: [01:46:13] Yeah. What a beautiful way to end this.

[01:46:17] Ultimately, that's one of the biggest insights that I got from my meditation. Plant medicine, journeys, whatever you call it is if not for joy, then what's life for,

[01:46:29] Andrzej: [01:46:29] yeah.

[01:46:31] CK Lin: [01:46:31] Beautiful way to wrap it up. I want to acknowledge you, Andre. Thank you so much for. Spending some time with me. I know how busy you are and your willingness to dance with me in this conversation.

[01:46:42] We've talked about a number of things. We talked about the integrated approach and to have this dual track of cybersecurity and personal development. We talked about why cybersecurity is everyone's really responsibilities, especially if you're a business person. We talked about. Who is, who should pay attention to, we talked about your daily rituals.

[01:47:09] We talked about Abraham Hicks. We talk about the Venus sequence. We talk about a cautious game alive and tough on number of things. Thank you. Just so much for sharing yourself so generously and be open in this,

[01:47:24] Andrzej: [01:47:24] have fun guys. The most important thing every day is that you're having fun and you're enjoying what you're doing.

[01:47:30] Life personal life, professional life, whatever it is. Godspeed on that journey. Enjoy it. Thank you. And thank you to, seek a, you've got a phenomenal art, phenomenal source of so much knowledge, so much passion, so on spirit. So thank you CK.

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