“Whatever you’re dealing with, it’s what makes you strong. Where you think you’re weak, where you are anxious, fearful, nervous, because you don’t understand you value because no one ever helped you have that value to understand that confidence and say, I. Am, Enough.”

My guest is Ken Dubner, a master hypnotherapist. He is a frequent lecturer at the UCLA school of dentistry and the American Hypnosis Association. He is the founder of the Life Formula Method to help people break free from the self-imposed prisons and step into their power.

Ken talked about his superpower as a hypnotherapist involves his humor, involves his personality, involves his total openness about his history, which most therapists don’t do.

He said: “I’m delightful, I’m engaging. I’m funny as fuck because I was a comic when I was in my twenties. So part of my superpower is my ability to make most people feel comfortable cause I’m so upfront and irreverent around my own struggle and because I’m free and they want to be free like that. He is unapologetically himself and he wants to teach everyone else to be that. That’s his mission in life.

We Talked About

  • How he bulletproofs his mind where he gets excited on stage where someone else gets frightened
  • Transmitting your greatest weaknesses into your greatest strengths
  • The 3 steps to fundamentally shift your belief system
  • How to be unapologetically you
  • How to foster owning your accomplishments
  • The psychology of confidence
  • Different levels of depression
  • Being adaptive and maladaptive in life
  • The comparison between martial arts and mental health
  • The safety protocol he uses to put his people in psychological safety in minutes
  • The importance of reminding people of their heroic progress


Full Episode


Wisdom Quotes

Depression has been a real big part of who I am. It's just part of who I am. Depression, for me, it's it might be terminal. This depression may kill me one day, but today's not the day. Click To Tweet Depression is there canvas upon which my life has been painted and it's cost me dearly friendships, family stuff, relationships, business, for sure. Click To Tweet What you curse? For me, depression is my curse, but at the same time, I wouldn't be the person I am. So your greatest curse really can be your greatest gift. Click To Tweet Am I somebody with a mental illness that may one day kill him? Or am I somebody in therefore weak and damaged? Or am I somebody who is able to go through a living hell in my brain? Instills come outstanding. So I feel. Because of… Click To Tweet whatever you're dealing with, it's what makes you strong. Where they think they're weak, where they are anxious, fearful, nervous about doing things, because no one ever helped them understand that confidence and say, I. am. enough. Click To Tweet One of the weak points of many schools of psychology was that it was looking at people as damaged. it doesn't cover the strength of it. It's all about the weakness. So we look at people as a group of symptomologies to be fixed rather than… Click To Tweet I'm unapologetically me and I want to teach everyone else to be that. That's my goal in life. Click To Tweet Metaphor is one of the easiest ways to communicate with the unconscious mind. Click To Tweet When we go to that place of the unconscious mind, that's where we shift things, beliefs and change. Click To Tweet Part of my job is as I've helped you achieve the change is to remind you to celebrate the change. To be cognizant that you've done an amazing thing. Click To Tweet We confuse discomfort with existential level danger. Click To Tweet


Transcript by AI

Ken Dubner Transcript by AI


Whatever you're dealing with. It's what makes you strong where you think you're weak. Where you think you're anxious, fearful, nervous, because you don't understand your value because no one ever helped you understand that confidence and say, I am enough. These are the words of ken dubner 

[00:00:21] welcome to noble warrior. My name is CK Lin.

[00:00:24] This is a place where I talked to other cautiousness center entrepreneurs about their journey from warrior to commender to King, to elder. We've talked about their mental models and actionable tactics. So then you can go on and build a future with greater fulfillment and impact. My next guest is ken dubner.

[00:00:43]He is a frequent lecturer at UCLA school of dentistry and the American hypnosis association. He's the founder of the life formula method to help people break free from the self-imposed prison and step into their power. 

[00:00:59] Ken talked about his superpower as a master hypnotherapist involving his humor involving his personality, involving his total openness about his history, which most therapists don't do. 

[00:01:12]He said I'm delightful. I mean, engaging, I'm funny as fuck, so part of my superpower is my ability to make most people feel comfortable because I'm so upfront and irreverent about my own struggles, because I'm so free in that want to be free like that 

[00:01:30]he's unapologetically himself and he wants to teach everyone else to do that. That's his mission in life.

[00:01:37] We talked about how he Bulletproof his mind when he gets excited on stage, where everyone else gets frightened. We talked about transmuting, your greatest weaknesses into your greatest strength. The three steps to fundamentally shift your belief system. 

[00:01:54]We talked about how to foster only your accomplishments, the psychology of confidence, the different levels of depression being adaptive andmaladaptive in life. The comparison between martial arts and mental health and the safety protocols uses to put people in psychological safety in minutes, please enjoy my conversation with Ken Dubner. 

[00:02:18]GMT20201217-223909_CK-Lin-s-P_gvo_1280x720: [00:02:18] What started you on this path? In the first place? Okay. For me at first. Understood the mind in a different way when I was young and it goes back to an experience I had when I was seven or so.

[00:02:32] And I was we lived in an apartment on a Hill and the hell overlooked the street that was really busy. And there was like a three-foot and bank men in the street. Since then I went back and they've actually put up a fence there. But it's 1960s, seventies, they just had the ban. Then you were in a busy street and you can just walk out and I'm sitting there and I'm seven.

[00:02:52] And I don't know what was going on. I think my dog had, yeah, I asked the way on that street. I think it had been hit about six months before. And I'm looking at the traffic and I know how dangerous it is. And all I could think of was should I jump. Should I jump in front of those cars.

[00:03:09] That's seven years old, seven years old. Wow. And I had I still have a wonderful family. Thank God. My parents are still with us and a great upbringing kid in the suburbs. And, but I also have clinical depression and we didn't know about it back then. Literally didn't know about it back then.

[00:03:27] This is about 1971 72. But it's been part of my life since then. What that experience taught me. Was the world changes quite drastically, but it doesn't change on the outside. Cause I was the same kid that day as I was the day before. And I was, the day after my parents were the same. My family was the same.

[00:03:50] The shift happened inside. And at a very early age, I realized something. I did something different. I used to call it going away in my head. Just get really withdrawn. And it seemed like I was looking at the world from far away and all the signs of clinical depression was too young to conceptualize it, but I knew that things could shift.

[00:04:08] And I knew it had nothing to do with the outside world. And that made me feel fascinated with the mind and how that happens. So at a very young age I read psychology textbooks when I was in sixth grade I just was fascinated with how that happens, but it gave me this advantage over a lot of people, even people that I meet now that are my age or older clients that come in, the understanding that it's not the outside world, it's the inside world that makes the difference.

[00:04:36] Yeah, you can be having a good day, a bad day, but nothing's different. So many people think I'm having a bad day because of you I'm having a bad day, but your circumstances, circumstance. When I met the F I met the effect of the outside world rather than a cause of my own understanding. And to get that at a young age was huge.

[00:04:53] It also made me fascinated with the mind and I studied a lot about the mind, even at that young age. So depression has been a real big part of who I am. It's just part of who I am. And as I say, depression, for me, it's it might be terminal. This depression may kill me one day, but today's not the day.

[00:05:13] And I may end my life. I'm in that group of people that one day may happen and. That's sounds weird for people to just calmly talk about, but I'm not in my depression right now. I'm not in that brain chemistry issue. So you could say depression is there canvas upon which my life has been painted and it's cost me dearly friendships, family stuff, relationships, business, for sure.

[00:05:39] The behaviors that came about because of it to try and cope. And, the ways that I avoided those feelings for a long time. And at the same time it made me fascinated with the mind. And so in school I studied in college. I did human services, which was a psychology sociology thing I worked with mentally.

[00:05:58] Can we move on to that too? Can you zoom in on the depression state a bit? So someone like me who is healthy and in my mind, every single human beings have thoughts. And then, but they're fleeting, right? So they're more of a simulation like, Hey what would happen if I had jumped in from our cars, it's a lot more like that.

[00:06:21] Yeah. Just just how our mind works. It we, kind of project and that happens, however, it's, it doesn't stay there as Oh, move on next stock kind of a thing. And it wasn't. So for me, I CA I get gained a lot more compassionate empathy for people with depression. After I watch a particular video online, it says depression is a lot like.

[00:06:46] Having the weather following you around is this like looming and it's not the person doing certain things. It's just it's, just there. And it, sometimes it lifts because of biochemistry or some mental game shift. You are living that cloud. So for those of us that may not necessarily have clinical depression, can you describe, like how accurate is that mental image of having a cloud looming over you?

[00:07:21] Just describe that a little bit. So that way when we have more empathy and compassion towards other that have it, and also have just a better understanding of what, is it that we're talking about? Okay. And it just let the people know that are watching this or listening. We are going to talk about confidence and we're all going to talk about how the mind shifts.

[00:07:40] I'm talking about my journey. I'm not an expert on depression. I'm a fellow traveler. I don't work with people with depression. It's something that you need to have a psychologist, a psychiatrist work with. But my understanding and I've helped other people to understand it. So I'm happy to talk and I'm very open about my journey because it is my journey and it's been I just realized yesterday when I was thinking about it, 50 years ago, I had a decision to make and I made the right decision.

[00:08:08] And there's a picture of me with my son that I took before. I told him the significance of it at that same spot, looking at that same traffic. So that gave a real closure to that experience, but there's so many ways to describe depression and some of them I've, heard a very elegant there's two things about depression that stick out to me.

[00:08:31] One is clinical depression caused by neurochemical problems that need to be balanced. There are levels. I call it. Dante has levels of hell It starts at the level of, I'm just not feeling great. I'm starting to question myself and I'm a little grouchy and then now my body's feeling bad and all my aches and pains are coming back and my wife will notice, Oh, you don't have your bad wrist or your bad thing.

[00:08:58] You had three, three things that are bugging you. You're wearing all these braces. Are you getting the, because the body starts to break down all the way down to the level of I just want to die and that's it. And the only thing keeping me from dying is I don't have the energy to go do it.

[00:09:12] That's the lowest level. And at that level, you convince yourself the world's better off without you. That you're a drain on everyone. And no matter what anyone says, you're not going to take it in. And at that point I have my own terminology. So anyone is dealing with depression, no offense, but I call it crazyville.

[00:09:28] I'm not, crazy right now when you're depressed in clinical depression, you are, it's a mental illness. It's not. Rational. It's not reasonable. Your brain is screaming at you to do something bad because you just want to get out of pain. The metaphor for me is depression is somewhere in the neighborhood.

[00:09:49] There's a van and it's driving around and randomly for no reason, it'll just come by and guys will jump out and throw me in the van and torture me for an indeterminate amount of time. Sometimes to the point. I just want to die to get out of the pain sometimes to the point that it's just taken me away from family and friends and doing what I want and everything in between.

[00:10:11] And then randomly they'll drop me back. And I'll never know when they're going to come back again. But I can hear them in the neighborhood. They're there. I know they're there and it's that feeling that says, even on a good day, you got to get a lot done because you don't know when the bad day is coming.

[00:10:28] So that understanding the feeling of it's not something I can fully control. Cause it's my brain chemistry. I can have an effect on it. In fact, that's why I figured out this formula was how I build myself up again afterwards. There's the depressive episode, but then there's the results. The disarray, the lack of confidence, the anxiousness, the social feeling of, I don't want to talk to people, all the things that happen when you come back from being away for awhile and your head having to rebuild some things, maybe your relationship, all those things that I've had to do have caused me to figure out.

[00:11:08] How did to do that. So everything I teach people, in addition to having been what I've learned through hypnotherapy and teaching people through 25 years of helping people, it's the result of battle tested doing it myself. This is what keeps me going on a bad day on her real bad day. This is what keeps me alive, and so far, 50 years later, I'm still kicking. So I must be doing something right. That metaphor is, it is one. I think that some people relate to, but it's pain. It's just, you're in pain. You're in emotional, physical pain. I wish the word depression was a different word because people think I've been depressed.

[00:11:46] My, family died. I am depressed. No that's being depressed. That's not clinical. Depression has nothing to do with anything outside of yourself. You go win a lottery or everyone in your family could die. And you feel exactly the same. That was one explanation I heard once. It feels exactly the same.

[00:12:04] There's just, there's no hope. One of the worst feelings of depression is when you can't feel any pleasure and people don't understand what that's it's daunting. Yeah. It's not even numbness. It's a lack of anything. And when you can look at your family and the people you love more than anything in the world and not feel anything.

[00:12:22] That's you're getting to the point where you're getting ready to go because what's the point of living there. We don't realize how much pleasure drives us until we literally can't feel pleasure in anything. We, yeah. And that's pretty torture us. So yeah. It is what it is. But as I say, we all in the, carnival of life, we all get to ride the carousel.

[00:12:45] We just have different rights depressions, my ride. Everybody's got a ride and having worked with people all this time, I don't care how well put together. You seem on the outside. We all have something. Yeah. You deal with your thing that said it's part of your journey, that's it? Yeah. I really appreciate a few different point of acknowledgement.

[00:13:04] One is that vivid imagery of someone randomly take you out. And just started torture you and randomly you drop you back in, that is a vivid visceral I don't know what that has never been kidnapped before. No, I hope I never experienced that I have an idea holy shit.

[00:13:25] And, then from that space, That's a extreme forcing function. How do you build yourself back up versus being a victim of it? Cause at that point it's psychological safety is calling and we're like, Oh my God, this is just my life. I can easily be a victim or here are some of the ways I can build up my practices and cultivate this.

[00:13:45] So that way it can remain resilient, strong. For me, man, it's part of this is everything's a learning and it's my choice. And like I was saying, because of what I experienced as a kid, I was fascinated with the mind and it's my curse. And yet it made me study the things I did and then go to hypnotherapy school and then learn NLP and then do all those things and help people all around the world and different continents and different countries and see signs of it and my own son and my friends, and then say, okay, here's what you need to.

[00:14:20] Talk to this person or read this and find out about yourself and this is what you're going through. Cause nobody told me, I didn't know until I was in my twenties and I figured it out for myself in college. Oh, that's what that thing called depression. So because of that, I had to do all of it. And I wouldn't be me without it. And so really your greatest curse. And by the way, if I say, what's your Chris CK you have a curse, we all have a curse. We all just, your brain goes, yeah, that thing, right? If I say it to everyone, that's listening, what you curse? You thought of something, right? For me, depression is my curse, but at the same time, I wouldn't be the person I am.

[00:14:56] I want to made the changes. I want to learn the things I want to help the people. So your greatest curse really can be your greatest gift. Yeah, we learned by dealing with it and I live that philosophy. What can I learn from this? Cause if I didn't I come from the East coast and I have a certain way of talking and I'm trying to keep my language in an appropriate manner.

[00:15:18] On this podcast are need to filters filter free, man. Walking down the street and you get a beat down right. Randomly in life that happens. Like I say, you're walking around a corner, somebody's got a big wet sack full of meat and just go whap right in your face. What the fuck just happened? I got some choices.

[00:15:36] If I get a beat down by life, I can either learn from it or I just gotta beat down for nothing. And if I'm going to get my butt kicked you say, I haven't been able to sensor, I'm going to get my butt kicked. I am going to learn something because otherwise I just gave it away for free. And I don't like getting my ass kicked.

[00:15:54] So when life does it. Dammit. I'm going to make something out of it. I don't think that the world or the universe or God, however you want to define it, puts it there for you to learn from. I think it happens and you got a choice. Do I learn or don't I learn. And we always have that choice. So whatever your curse is, whatever anyone was listening to, the curse, that is my invitation to you is to ask yourself, how do I make it, my gift?

[00:16:18] How do I, how does dealing with this thing, make me stronger? What do I need to learn? So Julie, you were saying you have a choice is the set mindset of, Oh my God, I have this and that's it. I'm not going to change. And then there's the growth mindset that says, yeah, I will use this as a platform to move forward.

[00:16:37] Yeah. Depression. And we talked about how you define yourself and we'll talk a little bit more, we'll get a little more in depth in this defining yourself as the emotional mind, according to my understanding, it's right down there and you choose that identity. And so am I somebody with a mental illness that may one day kill him?

[00:16:56] Or am I somebody in therefore weak and damaged? Or am I somebody who is able to go through a living hell in my brain? Instills come outstanding. So I feel. Because of depression, vaguely superior to a lot of people. And I've talked to people and we belong to an organization when a lot of people that are very rich and very well professionals and great at what they do and highly successful multiple businesses, legends in their industry.

[00:17:26] And I went and did a talk in front of them. And I just mentioned to them in passing, you know what none of you fucker has really impressed me. And there was silence. Cause everyone who gets in front of that group is the first thing they say is it's such an honor to be in front of all you people millionaires, billionaires, blah, blah, blah.

[00:17:40] I said, I don't care how much you made. I don't care what you've done live for seven days in my seven year old brain. And don't jump in front of that traffic and then you have my respect. Cause then I think you're tough until then I think I'm superior to everybody and I want everyone to get that whatever you're dealing with.

[00:18:02] It's what makes you strong? And if you've had a horrible life, if you had horrible trauma, if you've been abused, if you have brain chemistry issues, whatever it is, the fact that you're still standing makes you strong and not everyone else. Cause this is a big part of my work is teaching people how they're strong, where they think they're weak, where they are anxious, fearful, nervous about doing things, because they don't understand their value because no one ever helped them have that value to give them that, understanding that confidence and say, as I am, enough.

[00:18:33] And as I am, by the way, I've got some things that you wish you could do. And B because of what I've been through. So I am one tough motherfucker, man. I love that. Like I said, dude this, shit may kill me one day LA honestly, I'm not the fricking day, dude. It almost sound like a movie dialogue, really.

[00:18:55] So I really appreciate the way you, so let me ask you to just highlight a few points. On this podcast, we say a lot is your biggest wounds is the source of your biggest superpower. I love that. You literally just reinforced what we said, and also the fact that you also did a reframe, right? Which on this podcast will say a lot as well.

[00:19:18] Whatever you, think your biggest weaknesses or wounds are turning around, it could be, or it is. Your biggest superpower. So casing point loud, just make it personal for a long time. I thought my insatiable curiosity, it was a burden because at some point when I was younger, my parents, my teacher said to me, be quiet, shut up too many questions.

[00:19:48] And then it wasn't until someone said Hey, Ashley is an asset. And then it was like, was like a whole, my whole world has shifted. It is a huge asset. You're right. And who would I be as a podcast or if not my curiosity about human beings and their life stories. That there's so many people that have been told not to be something or that, what they are is bad and that comes down to identity.

[00:20:17] We learned that when we're young, we don't question it and then we build a worldview around it. And an example that I can give you is people with add or ADHD. When you are young in school, that is a very negative thing. You're supposed to be regimented. Don't do this. Don't do that. My son's literally gifted as a genius, but he was very hyper as a kid.

[00:20:38] And the report I got from him and for him in second grade was he's really intelligent. He answers questions on a depth that I haven't seen any child, his age answer. And I knew his sense of humor. Cause I have a background in when I was younger as a comic Was far beyond somebody, his age, I knew he was intelligent and none of them understood it because they saw it as a deficit.

[00:21:01] He wasn't able to sit still the big report he got was he, fidgets his foot and that distracts the other children. And I looked in and I said, so wait, you're telling me that he can answer questions on a deeper level, but you're concerned that he fidgets his foot. And I was not a happy camper at that moment.

[00:21:17] And then you fast forward to look at entrepreneurs. Look at successful entrepreneurs, look at how many of them define themselves as having add. It's actually a plus for many people, if you learn to harness that power of hyper-focus and the ability to go through so many things at once and the excitement, all those things can be pluses.

[00:21:40] It's just, how do you learn to use it? And one of the differences between me and I think the way people are classically trained psychologists and psychiatrists, and there's, numerous methods of helping people, and all of them have their strong points and their weak points. I think one of the weak points of many schools of psychology was that it was looking at people as damaged.

[00:22:09] And classifying them. I am a person with clinical depression and that's the box that I would be in. But that's not the whole, may it doesn't cover the strength of it. It's all about the weakness. I have this symptom, the symptoms, this some. So we look at people as a group of symptomologies to be fixed rather than as an individual to be honored and enhanced and say, okay, where is adaptive?

[00:22:31] We talked about that. Where is it? Adaptive? Where is it maladaptive? That's the only question. Is it adaptive as a maladaptive? It's almost as if certain schools of psychology. It's about making you not be weird. Just be one, I normalize you somehow. Yeah. Let's be normal. Yeah. So you're a DSM, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:22:51] And that's, I've had arguments with friends that are just like, Oh, analysts and stock price at them. We're not a collection of symptoms, we're human experience. But in saying that I have my own understanding the formula by which we differentiate and build our reality but the difference being it's not about are you broken?

[00:23:13] Or are you fixed? It's about you doing this? It's is it adaptive? If not try shift, in the formula, that's it. And then see what happens. There's no value judgment. You're not broken. You just need to change some stuff where you wouldn't be talking to me. That's how I greet people. I, really appreciate you saying that.

[00:23:34] So these days I actually study a lot of. Doubted, judging that, eating more of like spiritual texts from China. Because that's my heritage. So I want to understand that a little bit more and a huge part of when it comes down to it, it basically is you said it beautifully, but in your own way, it's adaptive versus maladaptive.

[00:23:56] If you are going against nature, Allah, maladaptive. Or your internal nature, whatever it is, your subjective reality, then stop doing it, change a formula if you're with it going with flow. And there's a lot of different various language to describe essentially the same thing, being adaptive, your subject reality, as well as your external reality, then keep going.

[00:24:24] So it's essentially, I love that you summarize the wisdom of. To adaptive, to maladaptive, that's it? The, Dow and all of that, they're just basically ripping me off.

[00:24:40] They just said it 2000 years sooner, but they were totally quoting me. There is no one right way and all teachings it's like the 10,000 names for God. Look I said, that's right. We're all going towards the same center. And if you look at my methodology, if you look at other methodologies, you'll see there's similarities.

[00:24:58] I didn't reinvent anything. I just figure it out. The connection that makes things work and change, work in a way that I can explain to other people that aren't wonky head. People like us that love to talk details and just say, Hey, I need a simple understanding. That's right. I don't need all of that. The way I talk about what I do is if we're going to talk about a martial art.

[00:25:22] So we're going to take the Eastern thing. So any more, sorry, has this beautiful history and all bits of it, and part of the martial arts is self-defense, but it's not all the martial arts. There's a whole bunch of art to it. If anyone has ever done a martial art, realizes there's much more to it than just learning how to defend yourself.

[00:25:39] Having said that's important. Part of most martial arts. You can learn the whole art form of hypnotherapy and Northern linguistic programming and whatever it is, if you don't mind stop on that point a bit, are there distinctions between hypnosis and you were linguistic programming and yeah, I'll get to that.

[00:25:58] Okay. So you can learn all of the art form. Or you can just learn self-defense. And this to me is teaching someone self defense. There's 80,000 ways to form a hand and do this and hit somebody and all of that. Or you can just teach someone to punch someone in the throat and that pretty much will do the job.

[00:26:18] So what I do is I take the basic 20% of what I know that gets me 80% of the results with everyone. And I teach people that. And I don't get into the deeper stuff unless I need to, for them, that person needs that. But again, 80% of my results is done with very few tools, but I'm really good at them.

[00:26:39] Just a martial artists will tell you, I know seven different moves, but I am real good at them. I am aware of a thousand and I can do them, but put me in a self-defense that I'm going to use. These seven moves almost everywhere. That's what I'm doing. Bruce Lee came to mind. Yeah, this is my Jeep condo.

[00:27:00] Yeah. He went in Chicano with Dan and the Santos student a long time. I'm horrible martial arts, but I loved it. But it's that part that says take what is useful and disregard the rest and build it because part of what I do with people as a. Hypnotherapist involves humor and involves my personality, involves my total openness about my history, which most people who are in therapeutic situations, don't do I'm informed by my experience.

[00:27:31] So that's my G condo. Everything that's happened to me informs me. And I'm going to tell you about it. If it helps you, I'm not going to hold it back. I'm also going to look at. Where are my strengths? I'm delightful, I'm engaging. I'm funny as fuck I can do all those things. I know that cause I was a comic when I was in my twenties, but I also know that cause it's, I'm very good at making people at ease.

[00:27:56] Part of my appeal, my martial art, my, if it was going to say as a therapist, part of the thing that I felt other therapists to break from, because I have people that come to me to learn this at our therapist, who literally say, I can't tell anyone I'm learning this because it's not. Therapy as defined by my organization, but it always helps them improve just like Jeep condo would take a TaeKwonDo person and help them learn other aspects so that they could be a more complete martial artist.

[00:28:22] And one of the things I find is I'm helping them be themselves, just like I help my clients. I'm helping them say, Hey, just be unapologetically you. That's what I do. I'm unapologetically me and I want to teach everyone else to be that. That's my goal in life. When you talked about the. The martial arts the NLP versus hypnosis.

[00:28:43] How it goes as hypnotherapy ancient understanding, they were doing sleep temples in ancient, Rome and Greece. Trans experience has been codified over time by different hypnotherapists. And one of the foremost hypnotherapists of our time or any other time was a man named Milton Erickson. And what happened was these two men and learn Grender went to study with him and Virginia  was a family therapist and Fritz Perls was another therapist and that they figured out how they got their results.

[00:29:15] Erickson said, they can tell you better how I do what I do than I can, because I just do what I do. Yeah. It's more of a theorist. They figured it out. The nuts and bolts they want, here's what they modeled and LP is about modeling successful understandings of the world. They modeled how they sit in a therapist, did that, and then they taught other therapists.

[00:29:36] If you do these things, you tend to move towards what this guy is doing, what this woman's doing. And so it's built into a, whole bunch of understandings, but basically it's about modeling human excellence. You have no therapies, one of the things they modeled. And so there's a lot of similarities, a lot of crossover any good NLP person is doing hypnosis in my mind.

[00:29:58] Because there reaches a certain point where they're in trance and once you're in trance, which is an internally focused state, not externally focused awareness as most people define it for therapy, you're in trance, it's just a different name. Think about it all as just variations.

[00:30:17] It's all, martial arts to me he, the only problem martial arts people get that connotation of combative. And it's not about that. It's the self-awareness having said that and you'll get this. I don't know if you're old enough to really get it though. In the seventies when Bruce Lee was a big thing.

[00:30:34] There was a thing where if I went to this school and you went to that school my school is better. I do, white crane. I, the praying mantis and that's really going to kick butt on white crane. And then we found mixed martial arts proved that some things worked and some things didn't and those situations.

[00:30:48] And then they came up with a general kind of thing with had a lot less techniques, but they were really effective for that combat sound familiar. So with that understanding. There's a lot of things and hypnosis has changed a lot because of the internet. When I learned it, was, there was literally 50 pages and I'm talking no pictures, anything on the internet having to do with hypnosis.

[00:31:14] And I know it cause I went on web crawler, which was the only thing you could get on then that I believe back then it'll search things and read all 50 pages and printed them out. And that was at 50. Page. I don't mean website. Pages and material that you could read. That was where I was when I started.

[00:31:32] Now, you can literally watch hypnosis all day, all night and never run out of material just on YouTube now. What is it all good? Is it all well done? No. When I'm teaching hypnotherapists I, teach them how to figure out what the right methodology is. So they can look at somebody and say, okay, that technique, this one.

[00:31:52] Oh, that's right on. But back then it was, my school of hypnosis is better than your school of hypnosis. It wasn't even my form of therapy. And what I used to say is it's my Kung Fu is stronger than your Kung Fu, but now we're on mixed martial artists. And if you come to me with a different system, my first thought is, what can I learn from this?

[00:32:10] What can I lift and excited on? What can I lift from what you're doing? I'll totally lift it. Cause if it's effective, I'm going to use it. And that's another part of why I came up with this. It was about what have I noticed. It may not be what I was classically taught, but it's my understandings.

[00:32:29] It's little licks I picked up. So let me let me tell you this real quick and then we can yeah, Please let's get into the mental model. Since we're going to do video, as well as audio for people who are not watching this, maybe you can visually describe what we're looking at. All right. So behind me, I have a, what looks like a diamond and I call it the life formula method.

[00:32:53] It's really life's secret formula. It is how we create meaning in anything and therefore where behavior comes from. And so if you were to look at it, you'd see a diamond on the outside of the diamond shape is. What's called external reality. It happens to all of us. We're in the same room, we're having the same experience, but then there's internal reality.

[00:33:12] That's inside that diamond shape and that's the meaning subjective reality that I make out of it that you make. And it's different for everyone. Same outside circumstances. We create our own meaning. And that was my lesson when I was a kid. So there's four points to a diamond. And so on the left point of that diamond, you'd see what's called body on the right point.

[00:33:31] You'd see perceptions. On the top point, you'd see logical mind. And on the bottom point, you'd see emotional mind and there's only four parts to what I teach. And it's those four parts your body is, what do you feel like your perception is? What are you focused on the shortcut to your logical mind? It's your self dialogue?

[00:33:51] And your emotional mind. That's your deep beliefs. That's your emotions around any experience. You take those four things that creates a formula. You change any part of that formula, the whole formula changes. So I'll give you an example. Somebody is told they're going to be on stage. And they're gonna hand me a pen and I've got to talk about a pen for 10 minutes, make an entertaining.

[00:34:12] We have 300 people in next room go well for the average person, studies have shown that it's almost as scary as death itself. Even more to some people I'm going to be in front of people. And I got to talk and I don't even know what I'm talking about. But at 25, I was a standard comic and then I did stage hypnosis for years, and then I've talked in front of loads and loads of crowds of people in the hundreds.

[00:34:34] So for me, it's a day at the beach. I enjoy doing it. I get a different meaning. You tell me that and I'm saying, yeah, that's going to be great. I'm going to have a great time. Why? Because I do different things with my body. My focus. My logical mind, myself talk, and I have different beliefs around that experience.

[00:34:51] And therefore I get excited where someone else gets frightened. So how does somebody get stage fright? If you want to die on stage, here's how you do it. Somebody says your going to get on stage and logical mind. That's self-talk. Usually when that happens, somebody who doesn't like getting onstage, usually expletives come out something like, Oh fuck.

[00:35:13] Oh shit. It's funny. How even the people who are the straightest sounding human beings, when you really get inside their heads, they have the same robust conversations as I have on the outside. So we tend to in crisis say something like that. Oh God, I gotta get on stage. So that's the first thing we're doing.

[00:35:30] We're saying it. And we're literally saying it. And that's when analogy in our own mind. Next thing, body, what happens? They tend to tighten up their shoulders, go up late. They're going to get attacked. They start breathing in their upper chest. Their throat gets tight. You can literally hear it. Their blood rate goes up.

[00:35:44] All the things that put you in fight or flight perceptions, what they're focused on. They're probably getting a picture of all these people staring at them. Their arms crossed. Look at them what are you even talking about? And they're seeing it through their eyes as if they're experienced, they're rehearsing, feeling crappy.

[00:36:00] And then we're getting to beliefs on a belief that you might've been gifted as a youth is a CK. Nobody wants to hear what you say. So why are you the one talking? How important do you think you are or in our family? We're not that's what entertainers do. We don't do that. We're doctors or whatever message you got you built because the emotional mind we'll get into a little later was built as a child.

[00:36:23] All right. But the meaning that you get about who you are, what's appropriate. All these things. Will be part of this, and the meaning you'll probably get is I'm not a speaker. That's not part of my identity. No one wants to hear what I have to say. They're all going to notice that my clothes sock or I'm, or I have a bad haircut or whatever.

[00:36:43] It's all going to go around in a loop. That's going to make me more tense. I'm gonna have more robust conversation. I'm going to see these people even bigger, larger, more of them saying you suck, or whatever your brain wants to focus on and pretend as real you tell me I'm going to go on stage.

[00:36:57] Here's what I say. Yeah. In my head. I get excited. If I think it's so excited. Cause excitement and anxiety feel the same physically. I get so excited that I have to chill myself out. Cause I don't want to burn the adrenaline before I get on stage because I am ready to go. Cause I have, in my mind, I'm focused on all the experiences I've ever had and I'm watching Ken.

[00:37:21] Killing it in front of people, whether it's making them laugh, whether it's teaching them, whether it's doing a hypnosis show, whether it's taking a group through hypnosis. And then I stepped into the afterwards where people have walked up to me years later and said, I saw you four years ago. You did a talk.

[00:37:36] I just wanted to tell you it changed my life. That's what I see when you tell me on a stage who, whose life am I changing right now is another thing I might say to myself. Another thing that I might say is to Ching cause frankly, I have a great conversation when I get onstage, I usually end up making money from it.

[00:37:51] So that's not bad either. So all of these meanings are there for me, but one of the real meanings is at my basis. I'm an entertainer. And when I'm on stage I'm bullet-proof, I've been on stage with fever. I'd been on stage with a spider bite. It should've been in the emergency room. I've been on stage when people started fighting in the crowd.

[00:38:08] I've been on stage when a biker wanted to kick my ass. This is back when I was a comic, I've been on stage of someone, winged a beer at me and I winged one back. This was again, when I was a comic, I don't do that now. But I've, been, I've had people in the audience literally have to have the MTS come and take them out while I'm trying to entertain a crowd.

[00:38:25] So that experience means I'm Bulletproof on stage, man. You can't nothing. In fact, I'm stronger on stage than off because I am larger than life. Take that belief system, take that whole formula and I feel great. My subjective reality is this is going to be wonderful. The person, who's the civilian who doesn't do this for a living and doesn't know about these things and do it.

[00:38:47] They're an abject terror because their formula leads them. There they are. Meaning they make of it is different. So it's gonna translate by the way, when you're on stage, by the way, when you're in flow. Here's a funny thing. We don't tend to talk to ourselves. It's one. And when you're in trance, we don't tend to talk to ourselves.

[00:39:06] We don't tend to have that internal dialogue. So I'm going to get a little more into all the pieces, the body piece. It's what do you feel is the shortcut, but it's all the things that you can feel and how it's affected one brain chemistry. All right. Two, are you on drugs? Are you tired? Do you have allergies?

[00:39:22] All right. Those are all things that will affect how you feel. What's your posture? How are you breathing? That's going to affect how you feel. Are you healthy? Are you eating right? That's all going to affect how you feel and that's all. Going to color some things, have you, part of your formula to receptions focus?

[00:39:37] What are you focused on and how are you focusing in any situation? There's different things you can focus on Anthony Robbins and many people use the metaphor of the room with a flashlight, your or Anthony Robins even talks about it. You're at a party with a, camera and you're looking at this part of the party and it's going, and everyone's having a good time, but you're looking at this part of the, camera.

[00:39:57] If you just film this part, you're seeing the guy sitting by himself looking really bored. Which party are you at? It's the same party. It's what are you focused on? And also how you focus because there's a lot of variations you can play with your perceptions. Do you can change things? People think the way I imagine things is just the way I imagine things.

[00:40:17] No, you can imagine them. All different ways and we're always imagining. We just think it's real because the emotional mind doesn't know the difference. You imagine something lushly enough. It's real to you. So there's variations on how you can focus on things you can do. And NLP talks a lot about that.

[00:40:33] Submodalities and such the logical mind. I call it that facetiously because it's not really a logical, it's just there to justify what the emotional mind has decided and the emotional mind. And that's the bottom of the diamond. If you're not watching, that's what really affects the base of everything.

[00:40:51] The emotional mind is something that was created in your childhood. It is not logical. It is not linear at all. The logical mind just existed justify what the emotional mind we buy with emotion. You justify with logic. My metaphor would be we're all little kids. That's the emotional mind in big kid bodies using big kid words.

[00:41:10] That's the logical mind to impress the other little kids in big head bodies. But when we get down to what we're all little kids, and if, you're listening to this and you can get that understanding of that, we, you may everybody, no matter how intelligent we can sound, no matter how much we're good at our subject, no matter how skilled we are.

[00:41:29] Just a bunch of little kids in big kid bodies and we're all working out childhood, that's it? The logical mind tends to fool us cause we're talking in our head and that's the part of us that can be really well modulated. So the diff between the logical and emotional mind is someone will come to me and they'll say can I'm feeling anxious and I'm lacking a little confidence, say it like that like, a grownup.

[00:41:52] And I'm, a Titan of my industry, but right now they're downsizing. I think I'm probably gonna lose my position. And a mother, of course, my wife, hasn't talked to me in three years and she's divorcing me. And my kids, they don't even speak to me. And also DSM my psychologist and it's I've said, I've got this issue with DSM again.

[00:42:13] Yes. Is the, it's the manual by which they figure out how you're fucked up. I see. I have no idea what that is. It's how psychiatrists will define somebody who has depression or an anxiety disorder. They'll say it has all these aspects to it. And the SM four was the fourth version I think might be in BDSM five by now.

[00:42:35] It's what a lot of Gnostic and statistical manual is that right? Okay. The problem with the DSM is if you looked at the DSM in the 1960s gay people were considered mentally ill. So evidently some things they got wrong and then they update it. And that makes me wonder how many things did they get wrong in this edition?

[00:42:55] Because it's kind of society's judgment on what is normal. So they'll say all these things to me and it'll sound really reasonable and I'll listen because I want to be respectful, but I'm listening for something else I'm waiting until they get to the moment where they just stop putting out the false front, where somebody goes from saying that well, modulator thing, and almost looking at me like, so what are you going to do?

[00:43:17] These are all the reasons I'm screwed up. And they almost feel proud, and then they, you stop me and say, you know what? It's really it's It's I'm gonna use tissue. I'm gonna use toilet paper and don't even flush me down the toilet. They just I'm in the wind. That's how little, I mean to these people and that's not logical and that's not real.

[00:43:42] You're not really toilet paper, but when I say it I've yet to have somebody look at me and not go. Because we felt that way, the emotional mind does not communicate in a logical patterns. It says things in metaphor. That's a metaphor. Metaphor is one of the easiest ways to communicate with the unconscious mind.

[00:44:00] If you're not a hypnotherapist, listen for people's metaphors and realize that there's a little child in there. That's the biggest part of what I teach civilians on the emotional mind. So you have four different ways of changing a formula change, any part, the formula must change. So let me give you an example of that.

[00:44:21] All right. The example would be if I gave you adrenaline and I didn't tell you'd have some things happen. So first thing you have and your heart rate would go up, your blood pressure would go up, you start sweating, you'd breathe faster. Physical things would be changing. You're going to try and have a logical meaning for that.

[00:44:40] And if you're my age and you haven't been working out for awhile and you're mean too much ice cream, you're going to say something like, am I having a heart attack? Yeah. And therefore your perceptions are going to focus on everybody's sensation. That indicates I'm having a heart attack. Every heartbeat.

[00:44:54] Is it faster? Is it slower? Is it more to as feel like tearing in my chest? And guess what, if you focus on something long enough, you can imagine a lot of things. When that's happening, you're going to bring up beliefs that you have about your own mortality, and it might be hearts, heart attacks run in our family.

[00:45:09] My uncle. Bob died of a heart attack when he was younger than me or my classmates of the same age. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Or even more arcane deeply embedded. Hey, you know what, when I was seven, my mom said, if you keep eating ice cream, like that one day, you're going to die of a heart attack. And that's, they're embedded in my unconscious mind.

[00:45:32] Is there that belief is there and I'm going to bring it up. And it's going to go to the identity. It says I'm not a healthy guy. I'm in my fifties. This is probably it. I'm having a damn heart attack. What's going to happen. Then my heart rate is going to go up. My body's going to respond. I'm going to have a more robust conversation.

[00:45:49] As I call it in my mind, I'm going to focus even more. It's going to go around and around So what do I do to get you out of that? I can do one of four things. I can change the body, the focus, what you say to yourself logically, or I can change the deeper meaning that you're putting into it.

[00:46:05] So I could give you anti adrenaline, not tell you a thing. And then your heart rate chills out. And eventually you stopped saying I'm having a heart attack and you say something like, whew, I must've just had a panic attack. You give it a meaning. You stopped. Monitoring every heartbeat you have, and you get back to focusing on whatever the heck you're focused on in your normal life.

[00:46:24] And you get to a belief system that says, wait, either I dodged a bullet, I'm lucky, or maybe I'll live forever, or maybe your belief shifts slightly and you go, you know what, maybe less ice cream. That was a bad experience, but regardless that one shift shifts the formula and then you're calm. You're not having a heart attack.

[00:46:41] I could do that. I could tell you, Hey, C K, I slept your adrenaline. And I didn't tell you and you'd think, Oh, you scamp, you drugged me. And when you got done thinking about all the things you're going to do to get back at me, you'd say, Hey, I guess I'm not having a heart attack now. Yeah. Your heart would still be tripping.

[00:46:57] You still got the adrenaline, but now you have a meaning that makes you feel good. I'm not this ADA gave me adrenaline and therefore, again, your focus might be like, Oh, Ken when, it comes around, I got some fun stuff to do here, or it might just be, Oh, I'm relieved. And let me get back on with my day or for some of us may be like how interesting, I guess this is what a heart attack feels like.

[00:47:19] Let me explore it. Does it depends on the meaning you give it and the meaning again, will shift the meaning will be maybe, Hey, don't trust Ken too much when he gives you something. Maybe that would be the meaning or I shouldn't trust friends, but the meaning of I'm having a heart attack with chef. That's another way I could shift your focus.

[00:47:39] And one of the things I tell people is when in doubt, fake a seizure. And what I mean by that is if I fake a seizure. Pretty much 99 out of a hundred things that you could be thinking about suddenly become less important. You will focus on me now you will focus on, Oh my God, is this guy foaming at the mouth what's going on now?

[00:47:58] Obviously I'm not saying if I had a friend die from epilepsy, so I'm taking it very seriously, but I'm saying it from the point of. If you do something drastically different and you change someone's focus immediately. Their belief system isn't kicked in anymore about mortality, their belief system about I'm here to help people and I've got to help someone in need and that guy's really in need.

[00:48:17] I might have my heart trip and, but this guy's on the floor rolling around. I'll still have this adrenaline stop, but I'll give a different meaning to it because now I'm doing this to help them. Oh my God. I better call an ambulance. I'll be focused on helping you now. Or we could change the deep beliefs we could do therapy about it can get you past the part that, you know yeah.

[00:48:35] It runs in your family, but guess what? Your uncle Bob was a, ma mumbled by marriage, and your identity is your you're a guy who's been living in a world in which we have things that they didn't have 30 years ago. So that part of your identity, and by the way, you're a survivor. You've survived.

[00:48:52] All of that. It's a big one. When we bring bringing up all the times you survived and then. Projecting it into the future of that. You'll survive this whatever change we want to bring, we bring it on a deep level. Therefore, when your heart starts tripping out, you just go how strange my heart's Triffin out.

[00:49:06] Let's get it all my day. Change any one part of that formula and everything shifts. That's why it's a formula. I see. So let's actually cause you, merge. The self scenario as well as the facilitator scenario together. So let's actually unpack that, bring up the, person who's petrified about to going to give a public speech.

[00:49:31] As an example, let's say if they're by themselves, they know your formula. What like tactically, what would you recommend to do it as a way to disrupt. The downward spiral of being freaked out about being nervous about going. We can take it any different way, but I'll give you an example based on a friend of mine that is a speaker and a very successful speaker.

[00:49:54] And very talented at being a speaker. And he told me, Hey, one day I was at a conference. Cause I'm always asking people, where's your challenges? So one day I was at a conference and I was going to go up and I knew I was going to do a great job. I'm great in front of a crowd. And he said, but then I realized that the two guys that were on before me were from Harvard, they were they'd studied at Harvard and.

[00:50:14] I never studied at an Ivy league school and I always felt a little less than, and I felt if they're going to be from Harvard and they're talking, what I'm, what can I add to it? These people are going to know. So the formula he got into was let's focus on the fact that they're on Harvard.

[00:50:27] Let's say to myself, something like they must know more than me. They're more important or people are more interested. Let's take it to the level of identity that says because I didn't go to an Ivy league school, someone who did is superior to me, And therefore let's get nervous when I don't usually get nervous in front of a crowd.

[00:50:45] Cause that's what they're like. It was weird. I was getting flop, sweat, and I'm like, I couldn't understand that. And I said, let me give you a different formula. Next time you're in front of those people. One. How about this? We'll start with focus. How about you focus on seeing all the times and watching that guy, literally watching yourself as if you're watching another person objectively.

[00:51:04] Because we step out of ourselves, we step out of our emotions, watch that guy killing it over the years. I said, Hey, by the way, I've had people tell me that changed their lives years after seeing me on stage. Have you had that? He goes, Oh yeah. I go what if you focused on that? And all the times people have said and see him in front of you, the people literally cried and said, my God, that talk that you gave three years.

[00:51:23] I just, something shifted in me already. He was starting to sit up straighter. I said, how about this? Why don't we take the belief that says I am a speaker. And I am one of the best there is. Cause you know, you're one of the best there has. How about we go with the belief that says I am someone who adds value to every group.

[00:51:40] I talk to, how about we do that? About we work that belief a little bit. How about we work? The belief that says book learning, ate everything. Because talent has something to do with being onstage. Okay. I said, how about we take that anxiety and flop, sweat, and instead make it more of a kind of if you were watching me, you say, I can, I'm starting to rock.

[00:51:57] Like I'm getting my energy up. Make it in more that excitement. Cause we give meaning to body sensations. You can excitement. Or how about if we just breathe and I showed him a quick breathing technique and how to drop his shoulders and take himself out of fight or flight and the final piece, the place that got him just smiling.

[00:52:16] And I said, right before you go on stage, you can say something to yourself. He goes, what's that? I said, you're going to say fuck Harvard. But every time he gets, every time I say it to him and he just sat up straighter and he was just like, yeah, man, Fuck Harvard and all that formula shifted. And now when he thinks about, if I'm going to follow somebody from an Ivy league university, he gets a grin on his face because he looks at me.

[00:52:47] He goes, fuck Harvard, because Harvard doesn't teach you to be a great speaker, being a great speaker teachers to be a great speaker. So I shifted his formula and it hadn't I can do it real quick. I knew the take apart real quick with people and do a little adjustment. That's the easiest part for me, because I'm really familiar with this.

[00:53:05] In doing therapeutic things with other people and teaching them a deeper level of understanding, that's where the rubber meets the road, so I gave them that the test is, Hey, when you think about it, are you still anxious? Nope. I'm really excited. I want to basically want to bug up those Harvard boys and Sean.

[00:53:22] Yeah. Whatever, is, meaning it changed quite a bit for him. And then the part about saying, okay, what, where did these beliefs come from? Maybe we need to shift some of that. Maybe you were told you were less than maybe there's a thing that's causing you in the same thing that's causing you.

[00:53:40] Not to value yourself onstage, even though it's so obvious. That you have value is causing you not to value yourself enough in a relationship to create boundaries that are right for you to have requirements for how you get treated. This is what runs the show the, emotional mind, the beliefs that you were given and their gifts that you were given, whether they're good gifts or not, they were adaptive when you were a kid.

[00:54:02] By the way, when you were taught something as a child, you were taught it. By the people that were like the gods, the adults, the ones who fed you and kept you safe. And therefore you had to do it because these are the people that keep me safe. And if they tell me in my family shut up and sit down, you're a kid, a part of me is going to take in.

[00:54:21] Maybe I need to shut up and sit down all the time. Some people will never get the update, right? Hold longer, the kid. And some people, most people never examine the belief itself and say, you know what? I don't think that was right to say to a kid. That kid was great. He had energy, it was enthusiastic. Maybe that parent was going through some stress.

[00:54:41] You don't examine the beliefs and change them. They don't get the update. So when we get into the emotional mind part, that's where the deeper change happens. But the cool thing about the formula. Is, I can teach you simple tools to help change parts of it. I can teach you how to breathe, calm yourself, take you out of fight or flight posture to have to feel more confident.

[00:55:04] I can teach you some very simple ways to change your focus and what to focus on and how you focus to take you out of the emotional state into a more objective state. I can show you how to change, how you talk to yourself. I can teach you to cheat on that logical level part, because the one thing you don't try and do.

[00:55:21] Was that logic yourself. You ever have that argument in your mind, you can't win an argument in your mind. You can't sit there and logic it out. I should do this. I don't know. Maybe I should do this. It's like playing chess with yourself, right? So you don't, directly try logic against logic.

[00:55:37] There's ways to play the game around it and not be linear. And then by doing those three things, you're going to shift emotionally. If you just did those three things, you're going to shift emotionally, but if I'm working with you on shifting those emotions at the same time, it's much more powerful. And that's why this formula was born as a hypnotherapist.

[00:55:58] I would work with the emotional mind. All right. And there was a little crossover between emotional mind, a logical mind and what hypnotherapists call the conscious and the unconscious. But it's not exactly. They're all paradigms. None of them really exists. It's just ways of understanding concepts. And as a hypnotherapist, it was all about the emotional mind could be changed that on a deep level.

[00:56:19] Then they're going to talk to themselves differently. They're going to focus differently. Their body's going to do different things. What I realized is why not teach people tools. And use it all together, synergistically. No, I really appreciate the way you articulate it. And I really liked the visual because you put those three on top.

[00:56:38] Literally just tactically, do those things and shift or the symptoms right away. You get media payoff, you get some relief. Now get some relief going on. Stage being your age, learn the process. Like basically get you moving. One of the, anyways, I want to get into reciting someone, but then you can work on get curious about the deeper.

[00:57:05] Stop the, root cause of why do I have this belief? Or why do I have this identity? Or why do I will be better? Cause there's, looking at the past. And then there's looking towards the future. It might be sometimes I don't even deal with why they got the belief. Although I like the metaphor of the inner child.

[00:57:24] It's just another metaphor. The brain accepts it. Once I say it, people go, Oh yeah, I do have a little kid inside me. And they look at themselves differently. We tend to be more forgiving of a child, whether it's ourselves or someone else, we tend to not be as critical. And when we get into that understanding, it says why I am a little kid.

[00:57:41] It's moving forward, what do I want this little kid to believe? I because guess what? You get to parent yourself. When you're an adult, you didn't have a choice. The first go around, you were given the environment, the messages, you're a grown ass human being. Now it's your choice. That's what brings people to me to change.

[00:57:59] They've decided, I don't know, like what I was given for beliefs and understanding is not working for me. I want to change it, but I don't know how. So sometimes we delve into the past. Sometimes we don't, sometimes it's all about, Hey, let's move you to the future. Let's what beliefs would you want? What beliefs does this person need?

[00:58:17] And part of the artistry, because there is an art to helping people change is what I bring to the table as a change worker and my life experience and all the skills I learned and the parts that I can't even define to you. And part of it is the understanding that says, look, there are certain techniques that I can teach anyone that'll make a dent.

[00:58:38] A huge debt and sometimes it will be enough to change right there forever. How you move forward in that aspect of your life. Yeah. I really love that. So before we go into the fundamental identity shift you had talked about the, body, the logical mind, the perception. What are some of the ways that you can, that you advise people to reinforce, to exercise the muscle, to anchor right.

[00:59:09] Using NLP terms, to actually anchor those core beliefs before going to the deeper level of fundamental belief. So I wouldn't say it's anchoring, it's more of using these parts of yourself effective. It's more like learning some techniques that you can use and then go back to that martial arts metaphor.

[00:59:25] It's well, where do you hit someone? Yeah. How do you form a Fest? That's a percussive. All right. That would be one part of a martial art. How do you lock a joint? How do you take someone down? Now we're into the grappling part, right? Wing Chung. If we're going to get real esoteric let's close, fighting, right?

[00:59:43] Wando is far fighting and one is, there's two slightly different skill sets, but I probably got three kicks in two ways of punching someone and my favorite way of choking someone out and I probably would be practicing them a lot. So what's your version? Again, sorry for the combative imagery, no warrior.

[01:00:03] They're used to idea of using the whole idea of noble warrior, just for clarification. Did the whole idea of noble warriors is treating life as a, discipline. Perfect. As an art. So we practice continuously the different disciplines, the different skills, so that we can actually create a life that we want to have in life.

[01:00:23] I love it. All right. So let me give you, I'll give you three little tools real quick that you can use. All right. Tool number one is the body. And we got to notice the body. And one of the big tells cause the body trumps anything. As I say, if you can have the best thoughts, you can talk to yourself about any of the wonderful beliefs we focused on great stuff.

[01:00:40] But if I put my hands around your neck and I start squeezing in about two minutes, you got issues and I don't care what you say to yourself. Just that's it. Body Trump's brain chemistry is what taught me that it doesn't matter. It's reaches a point where nothing else is going to work. When I, when somebody has clinical depression, cause they got to shift the brain chemistry and then, Everything will start to shift. So the body trumps everything. So let's start with the body because when the body is in fight or flight, everything else kicks off and you gotta remember fight or flight is a good thing. It was designed to help us survive. It was literally, you're a caveman over there.

[01:01:18] There's a rustle in the bushes. I'm a little interesting. Now there's a growl. I'm a little concerned now there's something with teeth. And they're big. They're sticking out like that. Cause it's a saber tooth tiger and it starting to come towards me quickly. I got some choices.

[01:01:38] Do I pick up a stick and fight the wire run? It's actually a fight flight or freeze or do I freeze in place? Those are the three choices you have, what you don't have as a choice to make a logical understanding of what the best way to understand this animal is as it hurdles towards you. And what's the best thing I need to do.

[01:01:55] Cause at that point you're tiger meat. All right. That person didn't breed. The one who did that, didn't breed the one who immediately went to something. What else do it do? Do they survived? It's hardwired. Yeah. Know us and it's great. But how many times in your life as a saber tooth tiger coming out of you, how many times in your life is it really an existential threat that you're confronted with and how many times in your life has it been?

[01:02:18] Something that was maybe monetary relationship wise? Blah blah-blah-blah, but it wasn't going to kill you. Fight or flight is designed for, it's going to kill you. I'm on a third floor. Tiger comes in. Do I jump out the window or do I grab a pen and try and shove it into words? I, those are my choices and I don't have time to think about it and it may not make the right choice.

[01:02:40] Cause fight or flight is not about thinking deep. It's about thinking fast. Actually think you're thinking deep, but studies have shown Mark Goulston talks about, he's a mutual friend of ours psychiatrist. McDilla hijack. And the fact that when that happens, you think you're thinking deep, but studies have shown your higher cortical functions.

[01:02:58] They're not really engaged. You want to quickly get out of pain. So body goes into fight or flight, a whole formula kicks off around it. So why not? Let's start with the body. So one of the things that was you go on fight or flight, shoulders, go up. Why I'm going to get attacked. This is just everyone. Watch people by the way, watch when the shoulders are here and then watch when they relax.

[01:03:16] Cause it was one of the ways I read people. How high is your shoulders compared to when I started talking to you and you calm yourself, right? So why not drop your shoulders? Let your body know you're safe right now. Why not? Instead of breathing up here. Which is the chest, which is intercostal.

[01:03:33] Yeah. Breathing. Why not breathe down in the diaphragm, which is two thirds of your lung capacity, which martial arts taught us. And I learned it from karate a long time before I learned any of this other stuff. How to breed down to the belly, the Tatiana, the part two inches below your navel. I use that imagery with people, filling a balloon, two inches below your name.

[01:03:52] Cool. If you breathe down there automatically, you will. Drop out of fight or flight belly breathing is the quickest way to get out of fight or flight and there's variations and ways to do it and all this subtleties to it. But if you breathe down in your belly and you drop your shoulders, you're going to start to calm yourself.

[01:04:11] The other thing I would tell you is this, in that situation, this thing I call the safety protocol. So I'm going to, I'll tell you what it is right now. I have, a client look to the right and left. And I asked them, are they safe? And usually with first time client, they'll go, what? And I'll go, are you safe?

[01:04:25] And they'll go. Yeah. And I go no, Are you safe right now? Cause I never want you to bullshit yourself. I want you to look around and say, are you safe? Remember clients come to me, they're anxious. They're nervous. They want confidence. They're in fight or flight. So it's become my specialty taking people out of fight or flight.

[01:04:42] So they look around and they go, no, you have to understand something. I'm not talking to your logical mind. I'm talking to the little kid part of you. Are you safe right now? Do you need to do anything else? And I've had people go, Oh, you know what? I feel better if you had the phone. Cause I do online work exclusively.

[01:04:56] I feel better if you had my friend's phone number in case I'm NAMS. Sure. Then I'll say, do you want me to have someone else's phone number? I've had people go. Yeah, there's just another phone number in case they're not there. I've had people go through their house three times to make sure all the doors are locked and I just sit there and I go sure.

[01:05:11] And then I say, are you safe? Are you short? Just checking on your feelings. Do you feel safe? Is there anything else you need to do? And when I get a congruent, yes, here's what I'll tell them. If you are safe, close your eyes and they close their eyes. And again, on the start breathing down on their belly.

[01:05:26] And I say, if you are safe, then you can tell yourself logically I am safe. So how about when you breathe in, your safe? Say it in your own mind when you exhale, tell yourself I am safe. Really? It's like setting up a mantra, but what am I doing? I'm distracting that logical mind, that's chapping away.

[01:05:44] I'm giving it something else to say while I'm calming the body. Then on as a perceptual technique while they're calm, while they're relaxed, while they're safe, I'll have them imagine stepping out of themselves because when we step away from ourselves and I did not invent dissociating for positive purposes, Marcus Aurelius actually wrote about it.

[01:06:04] 2000 years ago, in order to be objective, you need to step out in the view yourself and the world. So it's a big part of what I do is teaching people of, be objective to step out of themselves to view if you were to step out of that person, are they safe? Look around while telling yourself you're safe while breathing calmly.

[01:06:25] Once I've done that, almost everyone is calm at that point. Almost everyone is like here. And then I might add some things for the emotional mind. I might get into some suggestions and things to reach out because at that point they're in a receptive state, but I just teach them to do those three things.

[01:06:40] It's called the safety protocol. And once you learn to do it's pretty simple to take yourself from a level of being anxious and nervous and fearful. It's like an eight and take yourself down or a five pretty quick. And as you practice that you can get better and better at it. Body breathe, relax, shoulders breathed down in your belly.

[01:07:01] Logical, mind you safe. So like yourself, know, you're safe. I am safe, you are safe. And there's variations on how to say it and reasons for those variations, we don't need to get into all the details perceptions. Let's focus on stepping out of yourself and floating up and seeing that person is safe right there.

[01:07:19] That they're fine. That where they are right now, nothing's going to hurt them. And the reason we're doing it. It's because if you're anxious and nervous and you tell me that you are safe, then I'm going to say either you're a liar or you're stupid because if you're safe, why are you anxious and nervous?

[01:07:37] Because the little kid doesn't feel safe and until the little kid feels safe, it doesn't matter. Whatever logical reasons they should feel safe, but they're only gonna feel safe when they're calm. When they're reminding themselves are safe. When they're stepping out and observing. That they're safe.

[01:07:54] That's when the little kid says, and the final thing I'll have them do. And this gets to the emotional mine. It'll say now, since you're standing next to this person, view them through loving eyes, like you're their best friend and there's probably something they need to hear right now. Imagine putting your hand on their shoulder and tell them what they need to hear.

[01:08:15] And then I'll have them step back and know themselves and open their eyes and I'll say, Hey, did you get a message from your own mind? When he said, I don't tell him what to say and variably, they come up with something great. Most times it's along the lines of you are safe. It's all gonna work out. You got the skills to get through this.

[01:08:34] They already knew the answer. They just weren't running a formula that would get them to the answer. So that's emotional mine. Now I'm having them talk to that part of themselves, that little kid really and saying, Hey, here's the reality. You're okay. You're not a bad person. You're worthwhile. These are the things that people tend to say.

[01:08:56] And the emotion that comes up from those simple statements. Cause it's, again, it's not me. Given them a statement I'm not doing hypnosis at that point to hypnotize them to feel worthwhile. Yet I am doing hypnosis because I'm taking them into a part of their mind and I'm letting them cause I'm all about self-efficacy.

[01:09:15] It's why I want to teach tools. I don't want to be there all the time. I want you to learn the tools so that I can help you and then move forward and help other people. And then hopefully you've changed the point where you are affecting other people too. I really appreciate this. Thank you for sharing.

[01:09:33] You walk us through the entire thing. So some follow up questions, right? You got it. So say their AA office. You help them with the three-year facilitation, masterful facilitation. They're not calmer. And they allow themselves this year, their subconscious or talk to their subconscious on the fundamental level.

[01:09:53] You're safe. You're worth it. You're lovable. You're good enough. Beautiful simple, profound statement. And in that moment there the way of being shifts, right? When, they drive home, inevitably circumstances happen neurotic thoughts start to arise again, and this is a new muscle, right? So they're going from unconscious competence or unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence, to conscious competence, to unconscious competence, which is mastery.

[01:10:27] Which is mastery, which is what you're demonstrating by the way is taking it from my NLP. I did not know that. And I love using, I use that analogy with people that you get to the point where you're walking the walk. You're not thinking about it first. It's clunky. It's conscious. It's clunky. Like you said, you're unconsciously common.

[01:10:45] I don't know it exists. I don't know. I can do it constantly. Competence. Now you've just told me. So Lou, the podcast I've listened to it now. I know there's a way that I can change. I don't know how to do it. Competent you practice, you become consciously competent. I can do it, but I have to think while I'm doing it, I'm a little kid I can get up.

[01:11:03] I can stand, but I have to just fall and I fall forward. Walking is falling forward. And continually catching yourself. But no try thinking about that when you're walking, you'll probably stumble because you learn that lesson so long ago. Now, walking is just, I get up and walk across the room.

[01:11:18] There's a million micro movements that have to happen for you to get out of a chair. You don't think about any of them, if you did you'd be, like the centipede. The old thing about the millipede was walking down and the grasshopper said, how do you do that with all those legs? And that millipede was paralyzed for the rest of his life because he couldn't figure it out.

[01:11:35] I look at it as, yeah. That's the opportunity to learn. Here's the one thing I miss about doing office work in LA. Because I exclusively before COVID I had already moved out of the office and I was just doing online. Cause I can reach people around the world. It's LA traffic is horrendous as anyone who lives in LA know.

[01:11:55] So there's always going to come a time where a client would show up late. And when they were late, they were anxious. And if they were late and they were texting me even better. And so first of all, I, they don't text while you're driving, but I could tell they are really anxious and they walk in and the 10 minutes late and they got only so much, dude.

[01:12:10] I'm so sorry. Traffic was horrible. I'm really sorry. And I look at them and go, I am so excited and I go, why I go? Cause you're pretty jangled and go, yeah, I go, what do you think? You're at an eight and they go, yeah, I'm going to bring an eight and I go good. Bring it down over four. And I just sit there. I think what you're telling me when you're there, because they learned how to use the tools.

[01:12:28] So they get to practice the tools. So everything is a learning. So when you go home and those thoughts come up, it's your chance to practice. So I tell them, look, it's never a straight line to change. It's always going to be ups downs all around. So when those thoughts come up, use the tool. But with hypnosis, what we're also doing is we're changing the unconscious responses.

[01:12:49] We're changing the emotional mind and. To get a little bit into the hypnosis piece of it. The classical hypnosis understanding you have a conscious mind, you have an unconscious mind. The conscious mind is that little 10% that you think runs the show. A logic reason, willpower doesn't do a thing to change anything.

[01:13:07] The unconscious mind is where all the skill sets, everything you've ever learned. It's down there someplace, but it's not really accessible to your conscious. And there's a thing between a filter called a critical faculty. And that's the part that you filter through. What I hear. And does it agree with what I believe now?

[01:13:23] What is true or what I believe is true? If it does, it reinforces it. If it doesn't, I tend to reject it cognitive dissonance, right? We see that any politics today's world where close friends can start to hate each other because they're convinced no, your side's bad. No, you're bad. You hate America. No, you hate America, right?

[01:13:45] You both love America. You just have very different ideas of what that means. And let's, try and figure that out. So when we go to that place of the unconscious mind, that's where we shift things, beliefs and change. And. The example I can give you, is this, when I was first doing hypnosis twenty-five years ago, I was still exotic back then, even in LA.

[01:14:08] So if I met somebody and he had done hypnosis, I was thrilled. I'm learning that. Oh, cool. How did it work out for you? And I met this guy and he was that time he was 50. So I don't know how old he is I can do math, but yes, he's. 50 75. Now, if he's still around and he goes, Oh yeah, I did it gnosis did about 10 years ago.

[01:14:28] I said, Oh cool. What'd you do if we're going to quit smoking. And then I go, Oh wow. How much did you smoke? And he goes, Oh, it was like two packs a day since I was like 10 man really was a heavy smoker. And I said Oh, cool. How did it work? He said I don't think it really worked. And I was like I was crestfallen, Oh my God, really I'm studying those didn't work.

[01:14:44] And I go see, you still smoke. And he goes, no, I don't smoke anymore. And I go, really? What, happened? He goes one day it's I woke up and I realized this just doesn't work for me. And I go, wow, when did that happen? And he goes, it's about 10 years ago. His brain didn't even register.

[01:15:00] And I have that happen. And any hypnotherapists can tell you, it's frustrating when someone comes back and they report to you, all the stuff that you helped them change has changed. And they don't make the connection. So, on that note let me, ask you this question from, one practitioner to another.

[01:15:17] So in my mind transformation, there is a little bit of a lag, right? And then a lot of times it happens immediately. It feels good immediately, but the behavior change takes a little bit more time and a little bit more practice, a little bit more mastery for it to stick. So how do you. In your mind, your mental model, how do you navigate the lag?

[01:15:42] Do you feel the ownership and the, accomplishment of how you helped contributed to their transformation that they desire? Or like, how do you navigate that? When you're doing classes slip gnosis, there is a lag. Some people have the hip, no miracle. You did it once now everything's shifted for most people.

[01:16:00] It's a reinforcement though, the shift that's happening and it's changing. In other words, I smoked my whole life. It made sense one day, it didn't make sense anymore. And that's all I needed to know. And now I don't smoke anymore. That guy had the hip, no miracle. I just didn't even really understand it. And his conscious mind didn't want to know.

[01:16:18] Because deep down, he believed nobody's going to change me. I changed myself. So one is the understanding that, yeah, it's going to take time. When I work with people, I don't really do by the session anymore. I do it by a timeframe we're working together for this much time. I don't really care if I'm working with you for an hour, a week, two hours a week, maybe.

[01:16:37] 10 minutes in a week. It doesn't matter. I'm here to get you a result of this amount of time, because it's going to take time to reinforce. But one of the big things I do is because I teach them basic tools up front. They have something to practice. So when they get that and they come back and go, I was really anxious.

[01:16:54] I go, cool. Did you, breathe and breathe? Okay. I sent you that breathing, recording it, trains you on how to do it. It's actually hypnotic. I'm giving you the installation unconsciously of how to do it. That's up to you, man. If you want to do it, you'll get great results. If you don't, we'll slog through it up until maybe I tell you're not a good match for me, but.

[01:17:15] We can do it either way. And usually people take the choice of, Oh, I'll use it as a learning. So then the next time they are jagged I'll were it? I always say, Hey, what's three. Good. The first thing I say is, give me three wins, and at first it's simple pretty quickly it's the winds have to apply to why you're here and how you show up differently this week.

[01:17:35] This happened. And usually I do this, I did that. So this happened, and usually I start yelling at people because I'm freaking out and I've lost control, but this happened, it was, I just, I started breathing and I'm gone. That was calmer. This happened. And usually I say to myself, Oh, they think they're trying to take advantage of me.

[01:17:52] They think I'm a punk, but this time I said to myself, Oh, I don't care what they think. This happened. And usually I'm in my body feeling the feelings and getting angry and making these big pictures of somebody just totally taken advantage of me. But instead this time I stepped away from it all.

[01:18:08] And I realized it's just two people having a discussion, by the way I go. When you did that, did you notice that your breathing shifted and they go, Oh yeah. So let's see what I'll tell people up front. I'll go. Here's what's going to happen. Consciousness clunky. You have to think about it. I'm teaching you some skills.

[01:18:23] You'd think about it. I'm doing change, work with you. Three hypnotherapy and changing some deep things. So you don't have to think about, they're just changing. It's all working together. All right. Consciousness clunky. When you're thinking about it, eventually you're going to come in and I happens every time when I love what had happens.

[01:18:40] I go, I'm telling you this right now. Within two, three months, you're going to come in and you're going to forget. I told you this because here's, what's going to happen. You're going to go Ken. Once they give me three wins. Here's a win. My boss started yelling at me and usually I get really upset, but I got really calm and I was able to say, you know what, that's not appropriate.

[01:18:59] And I go, wow, what happened? And you'll say something like, I don't know, he's just yelling at me. And it's I took a deep breath and I said to myself what's he going to do? I'm good at this. And I just could see that guy is out of control and this guy needs to be calm. I felt calm.

[01:19:13] And I'll say to you, wait, do you mean that person was yelling and you stopped you breathe. You said something different in your logical mind in a different way, you change the focus to stepping out and seeing it from a different perspective that allowed you and therefore you felt emotionally calm.

[01:19:31] And while I'm doing it, I do the little hand point, cause I always had the formula behind me on the wall and I get the sheepish grin. Oh yeah, I did do that. Didn't I. Because that's when it's real. That's what I'm, that's what I'm excited. I'm not as excited when they say I use this to, and I did that. I'm excited when they forget that they do.

[01:19:49] I see. Okay. Because that's unconscious competence. That's now they're walking through life differently. Now the winds are, I reacted this way at first, the winds are I breathe. I did this technique. It helped, it took me from a seven. Eventually. It's no longer about any of that. It's this guy yelled at me and I just was so chill.

[01:20:09] And that's all on a conscious level, I used to smoke cigarettes and then it stopped making sense. And that whole formula changed, but you don't need eventually to be consciously aware of any of it. Just like you're not constantly aware of how you walk across a room or how you get nervous at the moment.

[01:20:27] You're not constantly aware of that. Eventually you don't need to be consciously aware of how to be confident. You just are. So you shifted, but knowing that and explaining it upfront, it's a process at first, it's going to be a big, wild process, gonna stop by the teacher tools while I'm doing hypnosis with you and changing some stuff.

[01:20:44] Eventually it's going to be mundane. And eventually I'm going to be the one saying to you, Hey, I don't know if you remember two months ago when we first met, but here's this guy, here's this woman. Here's what you were listing, where your issues, which one of these are still your issues. And you're going to look at Mingo pretty much.

[01:21:00] None of them. And I'm going to say, Hey, do you walk around saying that all the time, all those issues of the past, I should feel good about myself and they go, no, it's just who I am. And I'll say you might want to remind yourself every once in a while that you had your moment in front of the cars in front of traffic and you stopped jumping and you did something different and how you were a different person, because we appreciate that.

[01:21:22] Yeah. Thank you. Okay. I think part of, any change worker, if you're doing change is to point out to people that change has occurred because a real change worker, what I call magic dust. And you can do it, you do it at a coffee. You can do it anywhere. You can give someone like, I know how to change somebody as self Dialogger shifted.

[01:21:44] I know how to do things that I can do something just walking and talking to someone for three minutes and they have a profound shift. They don't know I did it. They just know I feel better. Part of being a change worker. Cause that's the sprinkling magic dust that love doing that. And teaching people to do it.

[01:21:59] When people learn this, they start doing it to other people. They start learning a technique and using it, even in the civilians, they call it will be like, Oh, my kid was doing this. And I said, Hey, what are you saying to yourself? All that. But if I'm a change worker and you're coming to me for change, part of my job is as I've helped you achieve the change is to remind you.

[01:22:16] That you've changed to celebrate that you changed? Cause pretty soon. Yeah, it will become just you're probably not really impressed CK that you can get up and walk across the room. Probably that you don't stop every time you do it and go, Oh my God, that's amazing. I couldn't do that one. So I used to fall down forward.

[01:22:38] Your hands were all over the place. I was like, no, I just get up. I walk across your look. I get and chew gum at the same time. This is a mood. You don't do that. Why? It's just. Same thing with a client. They won't remember how they felt when they got there, because they don't feel it that way anymore. And part of my job is one to celebrate the change, but you to keep them cognizant you've done an amazing thing.

[01:23:04] Your journey has been heroic to get from here to here, because that's another part about. Therapeutic work is, I think part of what we're doing is teaching everyone that they're a hero in their journey that their fear or their phobia or their feeling is I'm scared to get on stage. It seems silly. No, in overcoming that you're slaying a dragon.

[01:23:25] That's your dragon. It's not my dragon to me. It's simple to do that. I like doing that, but for you that's death. You're confronting levels of fear. I would have to take a gun. It's one reason I love working with performers by the way is because like I say, to get you nervous, if you have stage fright, I would literally have to get you that nervous, take your gun and shoot it right past your head.

[01:23:45] And you have to hear the bullet was by to get as nervous as someone with stage fright gets no one. I can't really do that legally with my clients, but if I know I'm getting you ready to get on stage you're going to be pressure tested. And you're going to think when you're done. Oh, that wasn't such a big thing.

[01:24:01] Cause you're going to forget the amazing level of fear that you used to have and doing that. You're not honoring the person that had the guts to say, I'm going to change this. I'm going to confront this fear. I'm going to go to somebody to get help. My little kid feels abject terror at the part of where I get on stage in front of the people and I'm going to do it anyway.

[01:24:23] I'm going to find out how to do it to me. That's a hero and people. Diminish how heroic they are in their lives. Like I said, am I someone with a mental illness who is damaged? Yeah. But am I also a ROIC figure that it seven years old was the only one shit that people that are grown ass adults would just put a gun in their mouth because their body and mind are screaming ended.

[01:24:50] And that makes me a really strong human. Is it? Oh, that thing in the past, it just said, by the way, here's the funny thing I tell this story because it really inspires people. I didn't know. It was weird. I didn't know. It was weird. The group that we're in. All right. We know each other, there was a speaker who said, Hey, turn to someone you don't know and tell them something that you think they wouldn't know about you.

[01:25:13] And just without thinking, you know what? First time I really was thinking about killing myself, I was seven and they were, they went like this. And in my head, the first thing I thought is, that really different for everybody? I thought everyone had that, is that I didn't realize. And then he was the one who said to me, I want to tell you something that was so brave for you to say that everyone else is sharing his, or I am so impressed with that.

[01:25:36] You're a he ended up becoming a client down the road because he's like the fact that you were just so upfront about it. And to me, it was no big thing. It was just who I was. Yeah. I mean it yeah. I had to actually have somebody else do the jaw drop for me to go, Oh my God, that is a monumental thing that at seven, not make that decision when my brain was telling me, and I hadn't even fully understood things in my life.

[01:26:02] And the world was still full of magic and dragons. I was literally seven. I didn't have logic and reasons and yet, and I still didn't do it. Yeah. I didn't know that until someone else pointed it out to me. It was just part of my journey. That's one of the reason why as a practice I take on now, if I see something.

[01:26:21] From my awareness that someone is doing something that impressed me, that leaves me feeling inspire a motivated or wow what bravery or courage or willingness, they just display to others. I'll be like, I just make a point to underline that. Hey, did you feel that way? You did.

[01:26:41] I really appreciate that. That, the da. Yeah, you've done that with me, man. It feels good to have somebody notice you've done something well, and honor it. And it's one of the things that impressed me about you, man, because we're all on our own spiritual journeys and, they're different we're different.

[01:26:57] I'm pretty out there and open and, loud and whatever. I'm a guy from New Jersey man. And you're quiet and thoughtful and more introspective, I think probably, and you gave me a prepared list for the things that we should do to get onto the tech. And I screwed the whole thing up and was like, cause I know how to zoom, dude.

[01:27:18] I didn't hit on start talking. That's what I do. I I, don't know from all that, we're very different. Yeah, we are both people on that journey to self and we both bring different aspects to it. And you've told me, Hey, there's something that resonates in the way you do some stuff I want to learn.

[01:27:34] And there's some parts about you that resonate with me. And that part, that's like appreciative and that would reach out to someone. So, that's actually a jam a bit on that one. Yeah. Let's jam on, the technicality of that is to me, you are. Very similar to Joe Polish. You, wear your wounds on your sleeve one of the first line or the second line and your bio was, I had depression as suicidal.

[01:28:02] Yeah, I've never met a speaker that put that on the first line know and I think that's beautiful. Yeah. I really mean it. That's re requires willingness and courage to do that. And someone like me who is a little bit more reserved, and come from a different culture that I'm exercising that muscle still, going on a journey from unconscious incompetence to conscious to unconscious competence. So I'm curious to know one, what is the benefit of living life that way, as well as what tactically disciplines right. Daily or otherwise one could do to live a more authentic. Life to live a more authentic life.

[01:28:49] When you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and say, fuck Harvard. I like that.

[01:29:00] The advantage is I'm open and you can't hurt me. You can't. Hurt me. Cause I'm the one bringing it up first. I don't care what you think of me and that's somebody who's self-directed but it's what I call unapologetically you. That's what I'm teaching people to be. This is who I am.

[01:29:19] Does that mean I'm going to stay there's no, I'm going to cry and grow and be a better person, but this is me warts and all, as they say, and it's the thing that you see a Silverback gorilla. And it's a body thing too. I show people to open your body up to leave that part of you vulnerable, open, not to clench over, it's also a metaphor because the silver back gorilla walks in this, because this vulnerable stomach area, they have it out. Every other animal protects it because that's where you get eviscerated by a tiger. And that's what they go for. The neck or the stomach area. That's Silverback gorilla doesn't do that because he has nothing to fear.

[01:29:58] He's the Silverback. There is nothing that's going to hurt that thing. And what I'm teaching clients to do is have that attitude. You can't hurt me. The only thing you're going to have you kill me. That's existential us pretty bad, but quite frankly, one of the gifts of depression is honestly, if I go tomorrow, I have no fear of dying. It's like a friend I've prayed for, years. To me one day I will. So I'm so at peace with the concept of my own demise that you can't scare me there. But that, sense of self that says

[01:30:34] again, it's going to come out Jersey. I don't give a fuck what you think of me. I give a fuck by the way, what you think of me? Cause I like you're a friend of mine. All right. But in general, I don't know you the fuck, are you all right? And that's, and by the way, there's a strength and weakness is a big thing of me.

[01:30:49] If you're watching, you're seeing me with two hands facing each other, every strength can be a weakness. I don't give a fuck is a great thing, but it's a one-way street. If that's all you can do. Cause there are times you should give a fuck. And in my previous career and it's attainment, I should have given it a fuck a lot more because I was the guy who didn't give a shit.

[01:31:07] And I would walk up to our producer, a director, somebody who wronged a friend of mine and I go, that's fucking wrong, dude. And everyone else's cow telling you this. And I go Oh, punch you in the fucking mouth. Don't fucking do that. And therefore, they didn't know, I want to work with me cause they wanted to work with those guys even was I really?

[01:31:22] Yeah, it was got to be the dude, but it didn't get me what I wanted strategically. I should have shut up and just maybe put up with it. Every strength can be a weakness. So the strength of unapologetically you is yeah, I'm fearless. When it comes to certain social things that most people get hung up on, but I also can rub people the wrong way really easily, And guess the people who get rubbed the wrong way, the most, the ones that probably need my help. Yeah. The morning security types, for sure. Because I'm basically saying just by being me. There's another way. I honest for me to you, dude. I just, the way you are is super endearing, because as you say, you don't give a fuck, which I find it to be very freeing because that means I can be myself around you versus I have to be very civilized and be very delicate with my words and that's just. I'm okay. I'm polished and up to be able to do that, but I prefer not to write. I prefer just you feel more comfortable cause I'm being me totally get it. And every client that comes to me, part of it is they want to learn that.

[01:32:35] But part of the appeal is, as I tell them, there's nothing that's fucked up about you. That I don't either have, done, or have a friend who hasn't done I'm as fucked up as you. I had to learn things in order to survive. I can help you. That's it. So you're not going to get judged here. You're not going to get judged anything you say you're going to get this reaction.

[01:32:58] Oh yeah. I've had that. And that's an appeal because people feel okay. I've got to put up a front. I, have friends. Who have been to therapists and clients who have been at therapists, who will tell me? Yeah, I went to my therapist for a year. I never mentioned that. I didn't feel confident, or I never mentioned this, or I never mentioned, I go, why?

[01:33:18] And they're like, I don't know. I didn't feel comfortable. I'm like that's the whole point of therapy, man. You're supposed to feel comfortable. If you don't have that rapport. So part of my super power is my FDIC journey in life. Makes most people feel comfortable cause I'm so upfront around it and I'm so irreverent around it and I can make jokes about wanting to kill yourself and I can do things because I'm free and they want to be free like that.

[01:33:43] So tactically speaking. W seeing you right. Being a client of your, to take your courses. So I get that, but on this podcast right here, right now, what would be one tactic or discipline? One could take on to step on that journey to be more free to, I think the easiest thing to do. And, this is frustrated hypnotherapists that have come to me to learn.

[01:34:08] Cause I had a good reputation over time of teaching hypnotherapists and specializing in doing inductions and taking people on the trance. And I had done stage stuff, so they want to learn that. So I have a cache and they come to me. I'm the dude they're going to learn from me. And in the first session, I'm like, I'm going to show you how to breathe.

[01:34:26] Nearly what they got. I know how to breathe. I'm going to show you how to breathe. I'm just thinking of one specific one and I'm like, it's pissing you off right now. Isn't it? And she's yeah, I'm pissed on me here to learn. And the therapy I'm like, trust me, just breathe. I'm fine. I'm like, trust me, just breathe.

[01:34:40] And she braids. And then she started crying. Her defenses went down and she cried. Three sessions. She cried every time she did the breathing cause she had to let it out. And I said that breathing thing that I'm showing you, I'm taking you in to have no system getting you into a calm place.

[01:34:59] I'm giving you a suggestion, but I'm just showing you how to breathe. Cause you're going to use that for the rest of your life until the day you die. You're breathing. Why not learn to do it in a way that suits you? So breathing is the most basic thing and it's just look up diaphragm breathing.

[01:35:14] Learn to breathe down in your belly when you're nervous, because when you're saying to yourself something like I can't, I, Oh my God, what are they going to think of me? All right. Step out of yourself and see who cares what they think of that person. Step out of yourself and see, that's just a moment in time and a whole lifetime step out of yourself and see, Hey, you know what, a hundred years from now, everyone's dead.

[01:35:36] Nothing. They do it doesn't matter. No, one's going to remember. They fumbled something or said something stupid, but most of all, Breathe, let your shoulders down because if you make fight or flight happen, you're going to try and find the meaning that supports why your body's feeling that way. If you make your body calm, you're going to try and find logical meaning for why you're calm.

[01:35:57] If every time you would, self-disclose in a relationship, you get real tense and we've heard, you can just hear whatever you're listening to hear what I just did a moment where people give it up. They shift. You're real trends. Now, you know what it really is, and they tell you what they're really feeling.

[01:36:18] You can do that for yourself. You can learn to breathe in a way that allows your body to calm itself enough to realize this isn't a saber tooth tiger in front of me. It's a human being I'm speaking to, it's a girl that I want to get to know. It's my husband it's a teacher it's, just a human or, Hey, you know what?

[01:36:41] Right now I'm in a job interview. And that means a lot. Cause I want to get this job, but either way I survive. So that breathing is part of it. Noticing what you're saying yourself as part of it. Cause the first part is noticing before you can change it. You got to notice it. Most people don't even think that.

[01:37:00] I talked to myself in my head. I had an experience. I went in during a bad depression back when I was first getting a handle on it. Cause they didn't always have a handle on it and know what was going on. And I'd hit a point where I really needed help and I was a mess and then went in and did an intake.

[01:37:19] And the doctor said, do you, hear voices? And I said, of course. And he started scribbling on the board, right? And what I meant was of course, I hear what, and I said to him and I go, I talked to myself in my head, don't you do that? And he looked at me quizzically, cause it was like, that's not how he defines it.

[01:37:37] I'm like, it's a voice. It's my voice. I'm talking to myself. We don't even pay attention and we don't think, Oh, I'm having a discussion in my brain. Let me listen to what I'm saying and decide does that work? Is that smart? Do I want to say that to myself? We think, Oh, I just say it to myself. No, we have a choice of what we say.

[01:37:56] Any meal of the day, you can choose what to say in your head. So monitor the body freeze for a number one. Number two. What am I saying to myself in a shortcut to is what's the tone analogy, right? When I was just like this CK, you gotta become I'm in front of all these people. I better calm. Guess what? If you're breathing in your diaphragm, here's your terminology.

[01:38:17] Usually when you hear people calm themselves, their voice. The voice gets like this. They slowed down. This is a universal gets a little deeper, by the way. It's your better voice. It's your sex phone voice? My sex phone, voice CK. It's the lushest caramel voice of a DJ, right? Yes. The nighttime DJ voice like that.

[01:38:42] I get calm. So why not talk like that in my mind? So if I was to say to myself in my mind, Holy shit, This interview is going horribly. Betsy Kay hates me. Oh my God. I must look like an asshole. I'm not going to get excited about it. Same languaging. Just change the tone. Knology that's a shortcut. There's a million little tools, but again, the first thing you got to do is just be aware.

[01:39:10] Am I in fight or flight? If I'm in fight or flight, then I am literally lying to myself unless I'm about to die. And if I'm not about to die, then fight or flight, isn't helping me right now. So let me breathe and calm my body first. And that's going to shift the rest of the formula significantly. If you can just learn that one skill.

[01:39:30] I appreciate that. Thank you. Do you, I'm looking at the time, do you mind spending a couple more minutes to jam about the mechanics of the show? Is that cool? Okay, cool. Thank you. Appreciate it. So you came from a. Comedian background stage hypnotist background. You know how to capture people's attention.

[01:39:52] You're not doing it virtually, you know how to dive into deeper peoples inner psyche. These are tremendous skills to have, I think, especially right now, post COVID. Cause now we are virtual. We need to adapt new skills to capture people's intention. And a zoom or some kind of format. So knowing what what do you think let's talk about the 80 20 principles of 80 20 skills.

[01:40:20]I want to learn from you? How do I capture people's attention? Cause I can go deep right. On a one-on-one, but be like someone who is like a show host, it was like pazazz and sound bites and capture your attention and pattern interrupt. That's I don't right now.

[01:40:39]So I'm curious as someone with 20 plus years experience, what would you say to everyone who. Nice to learn the skills to capture people's intention. Imagine quick journey. I know 25, I started doing standup three to I was, getting ready to get married and that lifestyle isn't a good one.

[01:41:02] So I went, I realized I loved the mind and I'd always been fascinated. What, why not go to school for this? Now 56. So I think it was almost been 31. It's been 25 years. Oh, don't tell my wife because that's also our anniversary. I must have screwed that up. And then I did some stage hypnosis, even though I hated stage of it's a as a comic or they're not funny, it's just the people that are doing funny stuff.

[01:41:28] And I knew at that age, in my thirties, I said I'm good. I'm real good at doing hypnosis with people, but I'm not seeing as a human yet. I'm not. I'm wild still. I'm pretty rowdy. And I'm not really, I can do technique with people, but I don't think I have the inner wisdom to do as well as I could do it at this age.

[01:41:47] I feel like that's part of it, the wisdom of life that having lived life. The shortcut is spend 10 years as a comic. And then study hypnotherapy and NLP and other cognitive stuff. Do that for 25 years and live a life and be totally honest about your fuck ups. And you'll be fine.

[01:42:11] Awesome. But for what you're saying, cause you, after you saw me do a group thing with people individually and they were all on you, you noticed, Hey, you really are reaching other people is it was w to me, I know I'll make it public. It was layers upon layers of things that you did. It wasn't just a singular thing and move on it.

[01:42:33] Wasn't like a mental checklist, like. Step one, two, three, four, five, six, which a lot of the beginners would do, but you're like layers upon layers of things. I'm like, I'm watching, you're like, wow, this guy one is a master of his own, his craft. And two, he's doing it with a lot of compassion and, making sure that people receive.

[01:42:54] Yeah, the gems and if they don't get it, you move on to the next thing. And then that's another thing, right? Cause I would be the person where Hey, wait a minute. That was a moment I'm acknowledging you so it can anyways. So. know your skillset and have confidence in your skillset and realize in a group situation you're paying with a broad brush.

[01:43:12] You're not going to reach everyone, but always be talking to someone and be aware that while you're talking to that person, other people are making meaning. So that's the part. And by the way, this is unconscious competence. This is hard for me to explain because I've done it for so long. And as a comic, I learned a long time ago, stage time, whether that stage time of doing hypnosis with people, doing therapeutic interventions with people's stage time of anything, it's the stage time that makes you good.

[01:43:39] The more you do it, the better you get. You're seeing me after I've had three decades of experience in front of people in a quarter century of working with people, you're seeing a different me now. And a lot of it is unconscious, but that basic understanding, it says if I'm in front of a group and I give.

[01:43:59] If I'm in front of one person, I give them this much value. That's great. I'm holding my hands about 10 inches apart. If I'm in front of 10 people and I give them all this much value now I have hold my hands two inches apart. That's 20 inches. I'm still giving a shit load of value to those people.

[01:44:16] The problem is when you're trying to give 10 inches of a value to each human being, cause that's when you do get caught up on, did you get it right? And I'm not here. I wasn't teaching a in-depth understanding. I was doing a here's a quick and dirty on understanding the mind and what to do and how to change something.

[01:44:33] So for me, it was that learning to let go of the need, to teach everyone every detail and realize some people are going to get it. Some people are, could take a couple of exposures to get it. Some people probably aren't really set up to get it, but the ones that you do reach you can change their lives.

[01:44:51] And as you witnessed, when I was talking to that group, it wasn't about the person I was extensively working with because when I was done, I would go Dan, what did you get? And they go, Oh my God, when you did that. And I go that's cause I was really talking to you. So working with him, but I was talking to you name that was also a master full stroke there.

[01:45:10] Good. Think about it, man. I w I walk and chew gum at the same time. That's basically how impressive it is to me. That's what I do. Cause it's unconscious, but you CK, you're still learning to walk in that realm. So you're not going to chew gum very well and walk yet, Tyler. All right. So you're still like, you're the toddler that's learned to walk, but still every once in a while it was like, Oh, how do I step this way?

[01:45:34] You ever watch a kid? That's four, they can walk. They got it down. But every once in a while I do something weird with their body and you're like, Oh, that's a little off balance. That's where you are right now, as far as that skillset. So, tactically speaking you, mentioned stage time, right?

[01:45:51] So logging is stage time, right? 10,000 hours or 10,000 experiments with whichever mental model you want to go with. What would be the tactical suggestion to a log, the stage time, giving them where post COVID should I start a weekly show too, for you personally? I'm using me as an example because, in, my mind, any expert, they need to hone their skill of capturing people's attention on camera in mass, in a group in zoom.

[01:46:27] So it's not just me. It's I think it's everyone. So CK, if you remember the first time we, talked online and we were just shooting the shit and I said, Hey, I want you to try something. That's going to be a little weird. Do you remember that? And I said, get really excited, like beyond that, and it gets silly and you're looking at me like, okay.

[01:46:45] And you're like, I can do that. And you got a little silly and you're like, Oh, see, I'm going to be open. And I was like, dude, no. Oh my God, that is so wild to get yourself so up. And Oh my God, that's the most exciting thing. And you looked at me, you are just out of your mind, but you upped your game after that because you were now more loose.

[01:47:04] Yeah. And had you practiced an extreme, that is not your comfort zone. I had you say my strength is I'm quiet and thoughtful and I'm very deep thinker and I have a great grasp of knowledge. The weakness of that is I tend to rely on that and not get emotional. So I said, do the opposite. I want you literally to feel like a jackass while you're doing it, unless you do that, you're not doing it right.

[01:47:27] You're not stretching the muscle of getting excited by the way, if you could CCK if you're, not watching, you're listening, it's getting this big child grin on his face. Yeah. Yeah. His body's moving a little more. He's getting excited. Is he just getting it? Like why I'm getting excited?

[01:47:42] You're getting excited. We have mirror neurons. If I get excited, you get excited. By the way, great speaking skill of you get yourself in the zone. You'll get them in the zone. So for you particularly it's, where's the weak point go overboard, go way overboard and see when you're past the point of discomfort.

[01:48:01] So if it's speaking in front of a person, go speak in front of 10. And then speaking in front of, one's not going to be that hard coming out of COVID. I think there's going to be a lot of social anxiety. I think eye contact is going to be weird. Cause I don't leave the house because I have health issues.

[01:48:15] And the couple of times I have I've noticed I'm not really looking people in the eye right now. Cause they're all like. Danger and I want to stay away from everyone. I don't want to engage people. I'm just let me go get my stuff. I'm going to leave. We've got what's going on afterwards.

[01:48:29] We're going to have to get used to it. I'm real good at looking at a camera to the point where I sometimes forget to look at the client directly. Cause I can see my peripheral, what I need to see what, even when your interest and your eyes are closed, I'm staring at the camera. Cause that's the, I am looking at right.

[01:48:45] It's going to be weird. So for me, what I'm going to do after COVID is I'm going to go out and I'm going to really practice looking people in the eye again, because I forgot that skill. It's going to be odd to do it. The only two people I looked directly in their eyes, my son and my wife, because they're the only two people I see in person.

[01:49:07] For the last year almost. So that skill for me, and that's weird because I'm great at look, I do eye contact wonderfully. I teach people confidence. That's weird to me to go, wow, that's skillsets atrophy, and it's going to be a little odd and a little invasive. To talk to people. I to, I know the part of me can't wait, cause it's great to have that connection, but the little kid, part of me needs a new challenge.

[01:49:29] It's a new challenge. It's an old challenge. It's become new again over time. So for anyone it's, where's the weakness. And also what you're doing, man. You're I love podcasts because people can practice a skillset and you're saying, Oh, do I do a show? Do I do that? You're already doing a show. You're learning how to interview someone.

[01:49:47] You're learning how to let someone ramble on and then bring them back to point, which you've done numerous times with me so far. All right. You're learning all these skill sets that are going to serve you. So what is the goal beyond if you're saying, Hey, my goal is maybe do a show as indifferent than the show you're doing, because guess why you're doing a show, but as indifferent, what's the skill sets I need.

[01:50:10] And let me practice the ones I'm uncomfortable with. Yeah, I wish I had some esoteric deep, duh, but it's it is practice, and push your comfort zone. Yeah. To be really Frank does this whole podcast journey has been, it's been a godsend to me cause that as I was sharing the very, beginning of our conversation, my curiosity.

[01:50:32] Was so intense for my parents and teachers. They had shut it down and in my mind made it wrong. It wasn't until I found the medium podcast. Now I can really go in deep to mental geek like me, jam on some of the esoteric type things that a lot of people wouldn't be able to relate.

[01:50:54] And then this gives me a creative outlet to really really listen, but also at the same time home the voice as well as recreate the other person as well. So here's the strength, the CK strength, all those things are strengths, right? So then the question becomes, where's the weakness in it?

[01:51:14] What where, does relying on that become a weakness because I'm not developing this skill. So you are quiet contemplate of a deep thinker, and you want to have deep discussions with people, right? Those are four great points. Those are strengths. Where is that not maybe serving you with as the opposite skillset.

[01:51:35] So for me, I can have that kind of conversation, but as And these people might know. Cause again, a little taste of me. I can be a total jackass, almost human in the room. I act like a child most of the time. Like I literally act like a 13 year old when I'm amongst my friends, my close friends that I never am serious.

[01:51:58] I'm always joking. I make stupid jokes like a 13 year old. That's part of me too, but being able to say I can do both means I can do everything in between. Yeah. It gives you a full range of expression and different either extreme, right? Yeah. So for UC K, Hey, you got that one part. That's great. If you're going to say, Hey, as a podcast or you're going to learn to loosen up over time.

[01:52:21] You're going to feel more comfortable over time. You're going to talk over people and do anecdotes a little bit over time, and then maybe throw your personality or maybe you'll feel like I like to just be the guy that interviews quietly, but you'll develop the pieces that you were not using because this was identity.

[01:52:40] I am CK LAN. I'm an intelligent man. I am quiet. I am thoughtful. I am humble. I don't raise my voice. I don't sit there and do stupid shit in front. I certainly don't get excited in front of people like that. That's not what my culture taught me and my family taught me. That's not what and do whatever that message was.

[01:52:58] Yeah. It's can limit you. So for you, for any of us, it's where's the, point where I'm weak and how do I turn it into a strength? No, I appreciate that. And, definitely this is whereabouts you hit episode 100, so was being a hundred episodes so far and it's been great. And then the more I do it, the more relaxed, right?

[01:53:18] Because now I'm a hundred. Yeah. Wow. You're going to be probably 110 when by the time this thing published. So a hundred plus, and it's been really, great. And I get to walk that path of unconscious competence to unconscious. Unconscious incompetence to conscious unconscious competence. Last time you looked at one of the first couple of episodes that you'd ever do.

[01:53:42] Oh my God. It's been awhile. It's been awhile. I cringe. I cringe was my suggestion. I think you should listen to, I'm certainly going to jump on one of them and say because again, it's not about cringing. Oh, I'm so bad. It's about saying, wow. I really, wasn't good at that. Look at me now and how much I've improved and knowing that, Hey episode 200, I'm looking at this episode and going, God damn, I had a lot to learn.

[01:54:11] That's the part, right? That's the part where your brain gets, Oh, there's a progression. I got to honor the fact that I am incredibly better than I was that implies that as long as I keep doing it, I get even better. So I think I'm at this level and I look at myself back then and I'm like, God, I was in the basement.

[01:54:30] That means I'm going to get to the next level. Cause all I did was I practiced the skill set and I got better at it. So you can look at that and be embarrassed, or you can look at that with a big ass smile on your face and go. I, appreciate that. I appreciate the reframe. Last question you're taking people from anxiety to confidence in effectively. What we're describing is so far over and different in many different ways is the different path from unconscious and confidence, right? Embarrassment, anxiety to confidence. So paint a picture for us. What's confidence. Like, how do you know when someone has confidence?

[01:55:15] How do you describe it? What's the experience of it? You can use yourself as an example. You can use your client's words as an example paint a picture for us. What is being a hundred percent confident? Let me let me ask you a question and imagination exercise. All right. There's two guys.

[01:55:37] They both walk into a room full of people. They both look like you, whoever you are out there in podcast land. One of them is extremely confident and one of them is totally self-conscious. How do you know we all get it? We all know its own is confident. Looks like we all know on an unconscious level.

[01:56:01] That's the great thing about truly being confident people. Get it. Just like this say about being getting back to the martial arts the way somebody who knows that can kick your ass, carries themselves is different than someone who thinks they can kick your ass or hopes they can kick your ass.

[01:56:17] Cause those are the loud ones. Those are the malty ones. So it was the ones who saw them improve the professionals. They just know if you do something I'm going to kill you and nothing's going to stop me. And therefore they just walked through the world. So confident they're the silver backs. So you've been confident this time, as you walk in a room, maybe in certain aspects of your life probably having to do with your intelligence and learning and things like that, where you've walked in a room and realize, yeah, I'm feeling really good.

[01:56:42] You've probably stood differently. You breathe differently. Your voice was a little deeper. Those are the externals. You're a little smoother and slower on your movements. There's a grace to it. Those are all things you can notice on the outside. On the inside. Your voice is calm. Just like my voice got calm.

[01:57:04] You're seeing good things happening. You're realizing that fears and stuff are just an imagination exercise and they don't serve you. And you're able to just step out and realize, and just walking into a room for 10 people cares and on a deepest level, you accept yourself. You realize I'm safe right now, because again, We confuse discomfort with existential level danger.

[01:57:31] There is no danger of me to walk in a room of 10 people. Unless those 10 people have really serious ill intent and are armed. In which case I should probably not walk into that room. I have choice. I don't live a lifestyle where I'm in danger for real, very, roughly five times in my life where I needed that adrenaline pumped to stay alive.

[01:57:52] And if I didn't have it at that moment, I wouldn't be here every other time. I was just using up energy needlessly and get nervous and getting scared and getting unconfident. How you walk, how you talk, there's all those indications. You get it. When you see someone who's confident. And like I said, as soon as I asked you, had a different CK image, the one who's competent, the one who's not.

[01:58:15] So let me ask you this, man. What'd you notice when you looked at the confidence CK, that you didn't notice when you worked at the self-conscious CK in that little imagination exercise, what was different? How do you know one's confidence? Yeah, I think the silver back gorilla image that you used is, apt is beautiful, essentially walking with that swagger or I breathe relaxed and the gorilla doesn't need you to say much of anything because he's not insecure about.

[01:58:59] Himself. He doesn't need to make the others known that he's a silver it's obvious that he's so laid back and he just be relaxed and exude that confidence. And then the difference is very, subtle, right? The, Let me give you a metaphor that you might've heard. It's a, it was attributed to Chinese emperor or something like that, of martial artists.

[01:59:21] And it was this, man came to challenge the man. It was the greatest martial artist in the world and he boasted and he said I can, kill a bull with one hand. I can break rocks with my, elbow. I can do all these things. They talked about all his accomplishments that he could do. And, the other guy said, Ugh, Really I can, break a grasshoppers leg.

[01:59:44] I can do know all these little things. So how are you the greatest martial arts? So he goes, Oh, I'm not actually, my master was the greatest martial artists in the world, but no one knew cause he never felt a need to tell him. That's confidence. Confidence is not just swagger. Gandhi was confident. Condi defeated the British empire, basically wearing a diaper with no resources.

[02:00:10] Other than the fact that he knew he was going to do it, that's confidence. So it doesn't have to be swagger, calm, quiet. It's just the understanding. It says, I got this, I guess that's the biggest thing. The biggest go-to phrase that I give people as I got this because that's where we are. No the, phrase you, gave on the, that.

[02:00:34] Gathering that we're at is I fucking got this? It wasn't just, I got this order. They like that. So I wrote that down. Actually, I fucking got this. I love that again. That's the thing about languaging in our own heads, man, people are real, but I have clients that do have never cursed and it's funny by the third session they're coming in and they're like, they curse for the first time.

[02:00:54] And I said to him, that shit stops. Fucker. And they're just like delighted with themselves. They're like, Oh my God, I felt so free your mind talk however you want. It's fine. It tends to be when we add the exploitives in our own, self-talk it tends to add juice to it. It just does. So whether guys, if you're out there and your church going kind of dude, and you don't ever curse in your own mind, Hey, every once in a while you might want to say something like I got this fucker and just see.

[02:01:25] Does it make you feel if it does do it again? If it doesn't great, don't do it speak only G-rated stuff in your head, but why not try the flexibility? Cause it's a big one for me. Oh, by the way, man, I wanted to let you know this method I teach, it's not just something I do with people in person.

[02:01:42] There's a way to learn it. So if you're interested in learning this and you can't work with me, one-on-one cause quite frankly, I come at a high price point. There's a way that you can learn it online. There's an online way of studying this. It's an eight week program in which you're getting me week after week teaching you these principles while doing hypnotic techniques to help install them.

[02:02:05] It's a full, robust program. I'm very proud of it. And I think you have my website there it's life in the show notes for sure. I formula method.com. If you want to find out more about me, go to Ken dubner.com, which is my own website. And if you go to Ken dubner.com, there is a giveaway. I think it's still there.

[02:02:25] If not, I'll try and put it back up where you give me your name and your email and I'll send a couple of little gifties and one of them, the first one is a breathing recording that teaches you how to breathe. That teaches you how to get calm. I give it to clients. I never worked with a client without giving them that, because I think it is again, one of the most important core skills you could possibly have.

[02:02:47] Beautiful. Thank you for your generosity. Can I want to take a few moments to really acknowledge you for how it show up on this podcast? the first time when I met you. I knew that I had to talk to you and I'm so glad I did because you brought. Your, history, who you are, your commitment to this podcast wholeheartedly right, away.

[02:03:08] You open your conversation with depression and, then the most intimate, the most private part, most people don't ever share in a public way to others. With my audience. So I so thankful for you. One being who you are to tell you a story and three share your beautiful life secret formula framework with my audience.

[02:03:29] So thank you for the way you show up. Thank you for acknowledging that.


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