My next guest, Michael J. Breus, Ph.D., is a Clinical Psychologist and both a Diplomat of the American Board of Sleep Medicine and a Fellow of The American Academy of Sleep Medicine. Dr. Breus was recently named the Top Sleep Specialist in California by Reader’s Digest, and one of the 10 most influential people in sleep. Dr. Breus is on the clinical advisory board of The Dr. Oz Show and on the show (40 times).

Dr. Breus has been interviewed on CNN, Oprah, The View, Anderson Cooper, Rachel Ray, Fox and Friends, The Doctors, Joy Behar, The CBS Early Show, The Today Show, and Kelly and Michael.

Dr. Breus lectures all over the world for organizations such as YPO (Young Presidents Organization) 20+ times in 2018-19,  AT&T (10 times), on stage for Tony Robbins (Unleash the Power), hospitals, and medical centers, financial organizations, product companies and many more.

We Talked About

  • The counterintuitive higher risks entrepreneurs take on when they are sleep deprived
  • How sleep impacts our mood and spirituality and all of those aspects to us as humans
  • Why naturally waking up without an alarm and waking up feeling refreshed and ready to meet the day is the goal
  • Why eight hours is a myth and what qualitative and quantitative data we ought to pay attention instead
  • The 4 stages of sleep and which stages we ought to optimize (hint: stage 3 & 4 are the money stages)
  • 2 under detected signs of sleep deprivation
  • His 20/20/20 protocol to prime our body for rest
  • If you are a true biohacker who wants to improve your sleep efficiency, what factor you ought to optimize
  • The 3 most common questions most people ask him
    • what mattress should I buy
    • what do I do about wake up in the middle of the night?
    • how do I turn off my brain at night?
  • The 4 supplements you need to get for better sleep
  • Why chronotype test helps you fall asleep quickly and get into deep sleep faster.
  • When is the best time to have sex as a couple (and how to have that conversation)

Please enjoy my conversation with Michael Breus, America’s most trusted sleep doctor

 

Links

 

Full Episode

 

Wisdom Quotes

Entrepreneurs have a much higher risk profile when you're sleep deprived in terms of your decision-making. Click To Tweet Mood and spirituality and all of those aspects that matter to us as humans and quite frankly they're founded in sleep. Click To Tweet We have to divorce ourselves from the idea that there's a set amount of sleep for all humans. Click To Tweet Stages three and four and REM. Those are the money stages. Those are the ones that we really want to optimize. Click To Tweet We think of stage three, four sleep as physical restoration; REM sleep is mental restoration. Click To Tweet The single best way to improve stages three, four sleep is through exercise. 20 minutes, high intensity exercise once a day is really very good for sleep in general. That's one of the easiest ways to improve stage three, four sleep. Click To Tweet One of the ways to avoid attacking stage three, four sleep is alcohol. Click To Tweet Downing caffeine first thing in the morning does almost nothing for you. Water will absolutely help wake you up and sunlight will absolutely help wake you up. Click To Tweet Generally speaking, if you fall asleep really quick, you could probably use more sleep. Click To Tweet The consistency of my schedule allowed my actually allowed my sleep architecture to condense. Click To Tweet If you want to enter into a state of unconsciousness, you need to be at a heart rate of about 60 or below. Click To Tweet So 20 minutes for things you got to do; 20 minutes for hygiene; and then 20 minutes for some form of meditation, relaxation, prayer, yoga, stretching that slows you down. Click To Tweet Remember your sleep cycle follows your core body temperature cycle. Click To Tweet Your Chronotype report actually turns out to be quite an invitation and a great conversation starter Click To Tweet

 

Transcription by AI

Michael Breus Transcription by AI

Sleep Hacking for Peak Performance and Beyond

Welcome to noble warrior. My name is CK, Len noble warrior is where I interview heart-centered entrepreneurs about their spiritual disciplines. With deconstruct them, my set, their mental models, actionable tactics. So you can take everything that you learn and engineer your life, your business with more impact and fulfillment.

[00:00:19]Of course, if you have any friends who could use more inspiration and specifically more sleep optimization tactics, please share this with them. They'll really thank you for it. 

[00:00:29]My next guest is Michael Bruce. He's America's most trusted sleep doctor. He has author three best-selling books. He has 19 years of career. He has treated thousands of patients. He's an expert guest for more than 100 times on shows like Dr. Oz, Oprah, the view Anderson Cooper 

[00:00:50] so here's what Dr. Brews share with us in this masterclass of asleep optimization.

[00:00:56] He shows specifically for. Entrepreneurs, why sleep deprivation has a really high risk profile for your decision-making and how sleep impacts our mood and spirituality and all other aspects and matters to us as humans. 

[00:01:14] He share with us why sleep is a fluid situation, not so rigid and naturally waking up. Without an alarm and say, damn, I got a good night's sleep and wake up, feeling refreshed and ready to meet the day is how we want to feel and why eight hours is a myth and what qualitative and quantitative data we ought to pay attention instead.

[00:01:37]And why there are four stages of sleep and which stages we are to optimize. And we give you a hint stage three for N REM. According to Dr. Bruce, those are the money stages. 

[00:01:49]So what is the single best way to improve stage three, four, and REM

[00:01:54]before speaking to Dr. Bruce, I had no idea I was chronically sleep deprived. What are the two signs they share with us of sleep deprivation?

[00:02:03]And how to prime our body for rest? And he has a 20, 20, 20 protocol as a way to prepare your body for arrest. 

[00:02:13]But those of you that wants to optimize your sleep even more so than your sleep hours are more efficient. Consistency is the key. 

[00:02:25] And you share with us the answers to the three most common questions that he gets asked. What do I do about waking up in the middle of the night and how to turn off my brain at night before I go to sleep lastly, chronotypes so you fall asleep really quickly and get into deep sleep even faster. And when is it's best to have sex with your partner?

[00:02:47]Please enjoy my conversation with Michael Breus. America's most trusted sleep doctor. 

[00:02:51]

[00:02:51]Please welcome Michael Bruce. Thanks TK. Thanks for being here. You forgot to mention that I'm you and I are good friends too. Yeah. So, so, so I'm actually really excited to be having a conversation with you because you have fundamentally changed the way I think about sleep and, and what a contribution specifically for this thing that I have in my finger here, the ring, the ring, the door ring.

[00:03:16] So for before the ring, I thought I was just so gifted. With sleep because when my head hits the pillow within a minute, I'm out and then my body automatically gets up after six hours. I was just like, I got the sleep hacking thing down and I got the ring. Then I was like, Oh, I was so wrong.

[00:03:40] Because I've got to look at, um, my HRVs, my resting heart rate, you know, how much I toss and turn. I was like, okay, not good. So, but, but I wanted to, so I have an audience, uh, biohackers high-performers float junkies. So I want to give them a sneak preview before I. Getting to some of the more philosophical question I want to ask you about.

[00:04:02] Okay. So, so I'm going to be asking you in this conversation, um, some of your signature hacks. Sure. The four stages of sleep the 25 minute or 90 minute nap, the consistency equals hyper sleep efficiency, progressive muscle relaxation. How to turn off your brain before you go to sleep, you know how to set the mood with goodnight LEDs and anti-anxiety hacks and so on and so on.

[00:04:28] But so that's some of the promises, right? That these are your signature hacks, but I want to start off by asking you this question, because since you're speaking to an audience, a high performers, if he can address why sleep is so important for a high performer for a CEO, for entrepreneurial founder. Yeah.

[00:04:49] So, you know, when we, when we talk about the fundamentals of performance, Of energy, of intellect, of focus of flow, right. We have to get ourselves into that state. And, and if you aren't well, slept. It's literally impossible to do that. Right. And so I talked to founders entrepreneurs, that's in the bio hackers all the time.

[00:05:11] I am a biohacker, I am a founder. I am an entrepreneur. And, you know, we're all built in sort of this way where it's like high energy, high pays, let's go, let's get shit done. Right. And so it's very valuable to have had a great night's sleep because number one, physically. Your reaction time is faster. Your movement is quicker.

[00:05:35] So most of you probably work out, probably helps you reduce your stress. Your at your workouts are easier when you, when you're well slept. You actually perceived exertion like physical exertion, the more sleep deprived you are, the more it feels like you're working, even if you're pushing the same weight, um, cognitively speaking.

[00:05:55] You, you can't make decisions without good sleep, right? Where there's a lots of data to show that you have a much higher risk profile when you're sleep deprived in terms of your decision-making, that could be really bad for an entrepreneur, right? Because you could be overvaluing or undervaluing something, believe it or not.

[00:06:11] I've even written articles about how entrepreneurs should sleep and how they can actually use that sleep in unique ways. To help them understand new ideas. And then we've also got this whole idea of mood and spirituality and all of those aspects to us as humans and quite frankly, They're they're founded in sleep.

[00:06:32] Right. You know, we, as my daughter likes to say, dad, if you don't get enough sleep, you're a grumpy fish. Right. And so, you know, that that pretty much holds true. Um, and so we need to also think about it from a spiritual sense in terms of whoever or whatever you connect with. You can't do it when you're too tired.

[00:06:48] Right. Um, you know, it's funny, I'm a, I've just recently gotten into meditation and for folks out there CK and I belong to, uh, we do breath work together and meditation together. It's, it's really pretty cool, but I was talking to somebody about it and they said they w they go on meditation retreats. And one of the things that they find is that most people fall asleep, um, during these meditation retreats.

[00:07:08] Right. And so once again, we can't even meditate. Without good rest. And so for me, it's just such a fundamental aspect of everything that we want to do as strivers. And as you know, people who are being successful and entrepreneurs sleep is just a foundational aspect. Yes. I want to underlie a few things that I learned from my research.

[00:07:28] You know, some of the, the, the, the tidbits I'd be sharing in other interviews. One thing that you said, if you lose 90 minutes of sleep, You're going to drop your cognitive ability, your ability to make a decision by 30%. So that is a huge number, especially for leaders, entrepreneurs, executives, with when there's, they're making high stakes, right.

[00:07:52] Uh, decisions. So, so that's, I mean, that alone is something to be, to, to pay attention to. It is, but there's also a second aspect to it. That's important, which is if you lose 90 minutes of sleep, that will absolutely have a cognitive decline. The real question becomes how much sleep do you need? Right because it's different.

[00:08:12] And so I'm here to tell all of you out there, eight hours is a fucking myth. Okay. Like it just is. So I'm going to tell you how this, uh, the science on it works. The average sleep cycle is 90 minutes long. Okay. And the average human has five of those cycles. Five times 90 is 450 minutes. And then you divide that by 60 to get hours.

[00:08:33] And it's seven and a half hours. The math doesn't even work for eight hours. Right. So one of the things that we always, we have to, we have to divorce ourselves from the idea that there's a set amount of sleep for all humans. There is, but it's personal. And so one of the things that we do is we want to teach people how to develop that personal bedtime, that personal wake-up time.

[00:08:56] Now there's, you can go even deeper because I know you like the details and you can get into people's. What's called chronotype. And so a chronotype is actually a genetically predetermined sleep schedule. And so one of the things that I do with all of my entrepreneurs and all of my high performers is we have to discover where is your swim lane, if you will for sleep?

[00:09:16] Like, what is that schedule that really works well for just you where you're falling asleep. Naturally waking up probably without an alarm and waking up feeling refreshed and ready to meet the day. Yeah. So quick question for you about this. Cause you know, by hacker with the ordering, right? It's this my new shiny object, my name, my monument for my menu, 2021, uh, resolution.

[00:09:39] Uh, would you say this is a good tool to optimize for my specific chronotype? And let me ask you to be more, a little bit context around it, because in my mind I noticed this, that the sleep scores or the readiness score that this app gives me. Uh, is optimizing for eight hours. The more I sleep, the higher score I get.

[00:10:00] So how do I then calibrate for how I feel versus specific scores? You know what I mean? Yep. I know exactly what you mean. So getting into the details on this. So number one, while I wear an aura ring, Let's be very clear. The metric of sleep is highly complicated. So originally when we started tracking things, we started and things like steps and steps are very easy to track because all you need to know is the length of your leg and your gait.

[00:10:25] And my daughter can do the calculus problem and tell you exactly how many steps that you're taking based on time. Right. But sleep is a very, very different metric. So number one, we have lots of problems measuring sleep because historically we put 27 electrodes on people's heads and then we stick them in a laboratory with a camera on them.

[00:10:41] Which isn't really great for sleep because you get the observer effect is uncomfortable or someone is watching you. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And so we, we liked the idea of moving with less equipment into the home because we have much better operational, uh, you know, not as much influence, right. As would you have with 27 electrodes attached to you.

[00:11:02] So when you start to look at this as an idea, He starts looking at trackers. There's only so many pieces of data that they can collect and they all collect distally, meaning from a wrist, from a finger, um, on a pad that you're lying on, things like that. So remember the accuracy. Of these devices is suspect.

[00:11:19] Okay. They're not great. They're not terrible. They're getting better, but they're not great. So when we look at the overall accuracy of the device, in terms of your score, this the generalized rubric of a score, let's say from the aura ring, isn't really as important to somebody like me as the details. So you mentioned like things like HRV.

[00:11:39] So I would be far more interested, not in your overall score from aura ring, but I would be much more interested in. What's your HRV over the course of a week. And notice let's say that you went. Stayed up late one night and drank alcohol. And how did that affect you? Those are the things that are much more interesting is the detail within them.

[00:11:58] And to be fair, you need that with all of the trackers all the way I teach people, how to use trackers is very, very simple. You don't want to look at the absolute data. You want to look at relative data, right? The, exactly the trends. And so if one night, you know, your ring or your bracelet or whatever it says, you got 12 minutes of REM sleep.

[00:12:18] Come on, you probably didn't get 12 minutes of REM sleep. If it says you got 12 minutes every single night, then you really don't have to worry because then, you know, it's just a malfunction of the device because there's no way you only got 12 minutes of REM sleep, but if you got Bravo and then you got 411 and then you got, you know, 89, that's the time period you want to look at.

[00:12:37] And see, what were you doing before and tried to understand what some of those influences are. So when you're looking for perfection for sleep, um, which is kind of a little bit what your crowd likes to do, number one, there is no perfection for sleep, but number two is kind of think about, uh, when you're looking at your scores again, relative data, not absolute.

[00:12:57] Yeah. And thank you for that. And so I'm going to go into the more tactical in a bit, but I think for the sake of our conversation, it would be worthwhile for the sleep scientist, the biohackers, right? The high performance who is looking for sleep optimization to really think about a, well, what are the four stages of sleep.

[00:13:15] So then that way they can think about weight and your effectiveness and efficiency. So. Absolutely. If you could share that, that'd be great. So when you look at the stages of sleep, to be very honest with you, there are some that are important and there's some that really aren't that important, right? So stage one is purely entry.

[00:13:32] Um, it's like walking through a door. That's pretty much what it is. It lasts for two to 3% of the night. Every time you wake up and you go back to sleep, you kind of enter into it in stage one. Stage two is the preponderance of the night. 50% of your sleep is stage two. Unfortunately there's not a lot from a biohacker standpoint, that's really worthwhile in there.

[00:13:51] Um, however stages three and four and stages REM. Those are the money stages. Those are the ones that we really want to optimize. If we can stages three and four, we call it beauty sleep or deep sleep is actually your physical restoration. This is where we have the largest bolus of growth hormone. Any minute.

[00:14:09] This is where we have all kinds of cellular repair going on. Um, also during this particular stage of sleep, we have a interesting thing happening in the brain. Um, so sort of the waste management system of the brain called autophagy. Pulls out all of those proteins that are in your brain during stage three, four sleep and avoids things like Alzheimer's and dementia and things like that.

[00:14:30] So stage three, four sleep is definitely one of those things that we want to either have at the level that we should see it based on our age and gender, or if we can optimize, right. What we want to avoid are the deficits to stage three, four sleep REM sleep is a little bit different in that we think of stage three, four sleep as physical restoration REM sleep is mental.

[00:14:51] Restoration. So even though the proteins are out now that the proteins are out stages, REM also has information. And so stage REM is moving information from your short-term memory to your long-term memory and creating an organizational substructure inside your brain in order to store information for data retrieval later.

[00:15:09] Right. So if we're going to optimize anything, quite frankly, we want stage three, four, and we want Ram, and those are the ones that we really want to kind of focus in on if we can. I love, I, I love the geekery Apache substructures and I was smiling because of, you know, a finer way. That's awesome. I love it.

[00:15:29] Great. Um, so, okay. So one thing I noticed from the ordering room port, right? And Hey, I'm pretty gifted with a deep. Level of sleep, but not so much. So is there anything that one could do tactically to say optimize more for either a deep sleep or REM sleep? A hundred percent. So number one, it all depends on your device.

[00:15:50] So remember there may be an accuracy issue with a particular stage of sleep in a device, but I understand. We want promotion of the two different areas in the best ways that we can. So there's a couple of things that make a lot of sense. Number one, exercise. So the single best way to improve stages three, four sleep is through exercise.

[00:16:08] Um, there's a lot of data to suggest this regular exercise is good. You don't have to run a marathon. We're talking 20 minutes like a hit, uh, but you know, sort of 20 minutes, high intensity exercise type of thing. Once a day is really very good for sleep in general. That's one of the easiest ways to improve stage three, four sleep.

[00:16:25] Um, One of the ways to avoid attacking stage three, four sleep is alcohol. So alcohol, unfortunately, while I like a glass of wine or a scotch, it absolutely beats the shit out of your sleep. Um, so you really have to think about, and what we've discovered now is it's the timing of the alcohol. So the moment you stopped drinking to the moment you close your eyes, that time period is where the highest level of effectiveness is of alcohol on your sleep.

[00:16:54] And so it takes the average human approximately one hour to digest one alcoholic beverage. So if you drink one glass of wine, I would recommend drinking one glass of water and wait one hour before sleep. If you drink two glasses of wine, you would want two glasses of water and wait two hours before sleep.

[00:17:11] Yeah. You don't want to bypass to the third drink and I'll tell you why. From a science perspective, one of the things we we know happens is people when they hit that third drink actually get energized, not relaxed. So we don't want to get energized before bed. And with men there's data suggests that the third drink is where aggression starts.

[00:17:30] We don't need to be aggressive at night with, that's not necessarily going to be a good thing. So if you can limit it to two drinks and follow this guideline, you really shouldn't have much in the way of effecting in your sleep is the other big problem when it comes to stage three, four sleep. So what was the word that you said.

[00:17:48] Caffeine caffeine. Got it. Yeah. And so, and to be fair, most entrepreneurs are caffeine junkies. Um, they just drink a ton of it. Um, and you know, they're monsters in their Cokes and their, you know, coffees and all these other things. So when you start to look at caffeine, the big thing that all the biohackers out there have to understand is caffeine is not a replacement for sleep.

[00:18:11] Okay, you cannot drink enough coffee to replace a nap. It does not work. Okay. That being said, what caffeine does is caffeine stimulates the brain, um, in a particular area or receptor site. Now I'm going to get a little geeky on you, but I think you'll love it. So when a cell eats a piece of glucose, something comes out the backend.

[00:18:31] One of those things is this stuff called a Denison, a dentist, and works its way through your system. It goes to a very specific receptor site in your brain and as a dentist and accumulates. You get sleepier and sleepier and sleepier. Okay. If you look at the molecular structure of a Denison and you look at the molecular structure of caffeine, they're off by one molecule.

[00:18:50] Which in and of itself is kind of philosophically interesting. The substance that is created naturally in your brain to put you to sleep. And then the substance that is created in nature or synthetically that keeps you awake is off by one molecule. So when you think about caffeine, you think about caffeine ingestion.

[00:19:06] There are a couple of things that you want to think about stopping around 2:00 PM. Makes a lot of sense. And here's why average half-life is between six and eight hours of caffeine. Most people go to bed around 10. If I can get half of it out of your system, it doesn't appear to have as large an effect on REM sleep.

[00:19:23] Now we're going, we're trying to optimize here. So for true optimization, I would say if it's possible to fade caffeine and eliminate it completely, you're going to be in much better shape from a sleep perspective. Now that being said. Caffeine is not terrible. Kevin's not a horrible thing. I'm not against caffeine.

[00:19:41] If people like caffeine don't want to utilize caffeine appropriately. That's fine. Do yourself a favor though. Don't drink it. First thing in the morning. So most people don't know, but sleep in and of itself is a dehydrated event. And so just from the humidity and our breath, we lose approximately a liter of water.

[00:19:56] Each night, caffeine is a diuretic, you know, it makes you pee. Um, and it doesn't hydrate you. So. If you're dehydrated, when you wake up, number one, you need about 20 ounces of water. That would be absolutely positively the hack of the morning, which is, well, actually I have a whole morning routine and I'll tell you about in a second, but yeah, let's do it.

[00:20:14] Oh right now. Okay. So my morning routine is interesting. So when I wake up in the morning, instead of drinking, what I do is I do five deep breaths while lying in my bed just to wake up my respiratory system and just kind of say, wake up to the world. I then have a big shaker next to me with a room temperature, water, and I do 20 ounces of room, temperature, water, and I walk over to the window and I get direct sunlight.

[00:20:39] Okay, to be fair, I'm wearing a robe. I'm just saying I'm wearing a robe. So when I walk over to the window, the reason that was my best joke, the reason for the sunlight is very simple. So when sun hits, when sunlight hits your eye, you have a particular cell in your eye called melanopsin cells. These are incredibly reactive to blue light.

[00:20:59] This is one of the reasons why we tell people wear blue light blocking glasses. Keep lights low in the evenings, things like that. We can use this to our advantage if we wake up in the morning and get direct sunlight, because it turns off the melatonin faucet in our brain. That's part of what that morning fog is that so many people out there are suffering with and they try to get rid of it by Downing caffeine.

[00:21:18] Nothing could be further from the truth. Okay. Downing caffeine does almost nothing for you. Water. We'll absolutely help wake you up and sunlight will absolutely help wake you up. So when we're looking at how do we optimize our sleep and our sleep stages in particular, we really want to do things like eliminate caffeine or reduce caffeine as much as possible.

[00:21:38] Eliminate alcohol, reduce alcohol down as much as possible. But the truth of the matter is there's something that's even easier to do to make sure that you get a little bit more REM sleep and a little bit more deep sleep. And that has to do with falling asleep at your Kronos. Typical. Time. Right. And so, you know, that's my big thing.

[00:21:55] I want people to go to chronic was.com and take my quiz and figure it all out. And what we discovered is if you figure out what your animal sleep tribe is, right, which is what my avatars are, you'll discover that it teaches you what time to go to bed so that you fall asleep quickly and get into deep sleep faster.

[00:22:13] And then you get into REM sleep and get out of it faster. So. Your body genetically is programmed to sleep at a particular time. You don't know what that time is, but I do. And if you take the quiz, you learn what those timeframes are. And then when you start playing around, believe it or not CK, if you were sleeping, let's say at an two hours later than, or two hours earlier than your body should have by pushing your bedtime back, we could actually increase your REM sleep and increase your deep sleep just by getting you in the right swim lane.

[00:22:45] Yeah, I love that. Thank you.  What are the sign of sleep deprivation? And I mean, let me, before you answer, let me just quickly contextualize this a bit. I was the guy who closes eyes. Within a few minutes, fall asleep during meditation, the guy, I was the guy who would drive and didn't know like the path I took and then I will arrive.

[00:23:06] And then the destination really realizing like, what the heck that I just do for the last hour. So, so, but I wasn't in denial. Uh, the decoration that I have. So for those who are listening, who may not know they're sleep deprived without the worrying, what would you say are some of the sign of sleep deprivation?

[00:23:26] Absolutely. So it's funny that you asked me this question because Oprah Winfrey asked me the same question okay. On her show. And, um, and I know you and Oprah, right? You guys are like this. And so she said to me, she said her, her boyfriend, his name is Stedman. And she said, he falls asleep in like a minute.

[00:23:44] And I turned, when I said, you know, that's bad. She said, what if peop the natural process of her falling asleep after you close your eyes should take somewhere between 15 and 20 minutes. If you fall asleep like this. That means you are sleep deprived. No question about it. It doesn't mean you are especially gifted when it comes to sleep.

[00:24:06] No, it does not. Although I will tell you that there are a couple of people out there who are just fast sleepers. Like they fall asleep quickly, um, who aren't sleep deprived, but generally speaking, if you fall asleep really quick, you could probably use more sleep. There are a couple of other signs of things that, that tell us about sleep deprivation as well.

[00:24:22] And another one is how many times do you hit the snooze? Right. So that's a really interesting, um, uh, marker, right? Because you might hit it once, but if you're hitting it once, twice, three times, what you're basically saying is I don't want to get the fuck out of bed, therefore I'm probably not getting enough sleep.

[00:24:40] Right. And so thinking about some of those characteristics can, can oftentimes be, uh, fairly important as well. Um, so I would say snooze button or how quickly you fall asleep would be two signs that you might not know are signs of sleep deprivation. Mm. Mm. And of course, if we fall asleep doing meditation, probably something to look at as well.

[00:25:02] Like if you like, that's obvious, right? Yawning, um, falling asleep in meetings, anytime you're still not being able to sit still for long periods of time. All of the things that we would normally see from regular sleep deprivation is very obvious to people, um, at least most of the time, but it's funny because a lot of people think, well, I fall asleep quick.

[00:25:20] I don't have any problems. And I'm like, dude, you need more sleep. Yeah. Yeah. I also remember the, the, um, it's not just about staying awake as well, cause I actually took a Parasso Tam and these type of like you tropics as a way to not needing sleep or minimizing how much I needed to sleep. Even though I was awake, I was a walking zombie.

[00:25:42] Like I couldn't actually function optimally. So, uh, and again, I want to really appreciate that you intentionally or not intentionally. Transform my life around sleep because the quality, you know, eight hours versus six hours, it's so subtle, but it's a huge, dramatic, profound, uh, experience. Right. Um, is there anything else for that they can pay attention to in terms of the subjective experience of, you know, man, this is awesome.

[00:26:13] I have enough sleep or awesome. I'm actually artificially doing this with caffeine and so on. Well, one of the things I would say is. Even needing an alarm clock, you could look at that. Like, I haven't used an alarm clock in 20 years, you know, unless I've got a flight, it's like, you know, five o'clock in the morning where I know I have to be up.

[00:26:31] And then of course, I don't know about any of you, but every time I have that happen, I have the shittiest night's sleep ever. I wake up like every hour looking at the clock, waiting to get up at five o'clock or whatever, actually on that point, um, I was so excited to talk to you. Yeah. I only have five hours of sleep.

[00:26:46] So I was up by four because I was excited. So maybe you can give me a solution to that as well, because I wasn't anxious. I was just excited. So yeah. So that happens to me too. Don't feel bad. So number one, sometimes it's okay. Like, you know, the thing to remember is sleep is never perfect for anybody, even for me.

[00:27:03] Um, I can tell you three or four nights ago, I had a terrible night's sleep. I was concerned about something that was going on with my daughter and, you know, it just was in my mind, that's normal, everyone, like. Please as please understand that sleep is a fluid situation. You know, you don't have the same day every day.

[00:27:22] You don't have the same sleep every night. Um, and you need to think about it that way. Some nights you might need a little bit more because you did something or didn't get something, you know, sleep the previous night, some nights you made might need a little less, generally speaking, if you can be consistent.

[00:27:38] That's the magic. So if you were a biohacker and you really want to figure out the smallest amount of sleep with the highest quality that, that you can get, it's all down to timing and chronotype. I get weird. What I can tell you happen to me. So I'm a Wolf, which is a nighttime night owl. Okay. I don't like going to bed early at all.

[00:27:58] Quite frankly, to get, I don't go to bed before midnight, usually. Right. I go to bed at midnight, very, very consistently. And I would wake up without an alarm at seven 30. Okay. For our breath work. Yes, exactly. Right. Then I started doing this for a while and then all of a sudden I was naturally waking up at seven 15, so going to bed at midnight, then I was waking up at seven and it was six 45.

[00:28:20] Then it was six 30, then it was six. I'm still going to bed at midnight. Okay. The consistency of my schedule allowed my actually allowed my sleep architecture to condense. I get just as much from a percentage standpoint of REM sleep as I did before. Mm, I just don't have as much stage two and no I've actually hacked my schedule.

[00:28:43] And now there are a couple other things that we can talk about how people can do, but really the crone understanding what your chronotype is and sleeping in that Kronos typical swim lane, literally condenses and expands your sleep. So it condenses it from a. Timing standpoint, but it improves it from a quality standpoint.

[00:29:00] A couple of other things that I think are really important for the biohacking community to understand about sleep is what I call par levels. So there are certain, um, uh, vitamins and minerals that you have in your body that help with sleep. And if they're deficient. It's a problem. So I'm always talking with people about vitamin D about magnesium, about iron and about melatonin.

[00:29:20] And those four are the areas that I think people can look at on, on a test. Like if you to go to your doctor, if a blood test or a saliva test or something like that, you can start to understand those. The reason these are important. Is simple. So magnesium actually helps with the production of internal melatonin.

[00:29:38] Number one. Um, it also helps calming people down and relaxing people before bed. Um, obviously melatonin is a circadian pacemaker, right? And so we want to make sure you have appropriate levels of those, but interestingly enough, vitamin D turns out to not only be very helpful when it comes to COVID. But is actually turning out to be a circadian pacemaker as well.

[00:29:58] And so what's fascinating about that is, and I mean, from a COVID standpoint, I'm sure you're aware or people should be aware of roughly 90% of the fatalities have vitamin D deficiencies. So. For folks out there like 5,000 international units of vitamin D check with your doctor first, every day, not a bad idea.

[00:30:17] Um, also it's very helpful for sleep as is the magnesium as well. For iron. I'm usually looking at my female patients for iron, because I have a lot of female patients who can become anemic. And we know that iron has a lot to do with movement and sleep. And so when we see people who are anemic or who have low iron, they Twitch a lot, they move around in their sleep a lot.

[00:30:35] And so sometimes using iron supplementation can actually settle that down. Quite nicely to be fair, dude. I'm not a big fan of. Prescription medication. I know that there is a place at a time for that. And I I've been, you know, I've been doing this for 22 years at this point, so I can completely understand and appreciate that there are people out there who need sleeping pills to sleep.

[00:30:57] I a hundred percent get that. However, I think that there's many people who are on sleeping pills. Who don't need to be. Yeah. There are people who've gotten habitually, uh, into that loop and quite frankly, the medical profession has done almost nothing to help people get out of it. Um, I would argue that the medical profession has been pretty irresponsible, uh, in some cases.

[00:31:19] Um, but what's interesting is now what we're starting to see is more development. In the prescription sleep space. And I would argue that that's a good idea. Now you did hear me say I'm not a big fan of prescription meds, and now I'm saying it's a good idea that they're doing research and I'll tell you why historically the drugs that we've used for sleep, they've been, uh, benzodiazepines or non benzodiazepine.

[00:31:41] Hypnotics these beat the crap out of sleep. They make you sleep, but they don't give you great. Quality sleep. It's better than the benzos where, so the restaurateurs and the values of the world almost destroyed your sleep. They kind of anesthetized you, the animals, Lunesta, sonatas, uh, you know, uh, those of the world, those aren't as bad, but they, they keep your sleep architecture kind of okay.

[00:32:04] But it's not really particularly great. What I'm excited about are there's new medications that are coming on the market that are very targeted. So for example, insomnia with anxiety is very different than insomnia with depression. Right or insomnia due to pain. Right. More things like that. And so what we're now seeing is a more targeted approach based on people's problems, which I think is, I think it makes sense, but again, I'm not convinced that everybody needs a pill to sleep, but for those who do, I don't want you to feel bad about it or harmful about it.

[00:32:34] There's again, many, many reasons why people would be on sleeping meds. Yeah, for sure. I mean, our noble warrior, our philosophy here is, Hey let's I should do it the natural way, quote, unquote first. Right? Let's just, you know, and then not to rely on, on pills to get that instant gratification, if, if we can.

[00:32:51] And obviously, as you said, you know, everyone is different. Sleep is very, very different, very complex, a lot of, a lot of different variables. So quick recap, the 80 20. Uh, to start off is, is consistency as well as the chronotype. Yes. Then once you get those things home, then you can play with other variables, like supplements and so on and so on.

[00:33:14] Is that correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and what I would, I would say is also just to be, to be clear, most people are magnesium deficient, and most people are vitamin D deficient. So it's certainly something that you're going to want to look at and they do have a pretty significant effect on sleep.

[00:33:28] Yeah, for sure. Um, tactical question for you. This is something that I am curious about and something that I'm a quote unquote suffer from. Uh, I fall asleep fast, but sane asleep is a, another issue, right? So basically five, four or five hours, then I'm up. And I used to think like, okay, that means I'm just my body's done sleeping.

[00:33:49] Time to get up. Uh, but with the ordering, I'm trying to optimize my score. So I'm trying to stay there longer. So what should I do? Should I, uh, take the honey beforehand or I stay asleep. Right. You know, if you want to share the affirmation, um, that would be great. So there's a lot of different things that go on.

[00:34:08] When people wake up in the middle of the night. So first of all, you're not alone. It turns out it's the most popular question that I'm asked other than what mattress should I buy. That seems to be the number one question that I'm asked, but the second one is what do I do about wake up the middle of the night?

[00:34:21] So there's a lot of, there's a lot of science here and I'm going to, I'm going to unpack a little bit of it. So as we're falling asleep, before we fall asleep around 10 o'clock at night, our core body temperature starts to rise around 10 30. It hits a peak and it begins to drop. That dropped number one is a signal to our brain to release melatonin and start the sleep process.

[00:34:40] Our core body temperature continues to go down, go down, go down, go down around three between three and four o'clock in the morning. Our core body temperature starts to take a dip and go up okay. And starts to rise. And as our body warms up, it gets us into lighter sleep, lighter sleep, and then eventually awake.

[00:34:59] So it's not uncommon for people at that dip point. To wake up in the middle of the night. That's number one, number two, many people go to bed and unfortunately I have to use the bathroom. Um, and that can be another big thing that happens, especially when that dip happens. Sleep actually gets lighter. It goes from a deeper stage when you're changing this temperature into a much lighter state.

[00:35:21] So it's easier to get aroused or to feel your bladder in the middle of the night. So again, not uncommon. Couple of tricks. There is, you know, stop drinking fluids two hours before bed. If you're diabetic, that that's not a good idea to check with your doctor first, um, be aware of your fluid intake. That can be very, very important, uh, you know, for those awakenings middle of the night.

[00:35:43] Now there's two other things that happen during that period of time that I haven't addressed one. His blood sugar. Right. So I always look at what was the timing of your last meal when you're waking up at this two 33 o'clock time, nine times out of 10, people are like, Oh, I finished dinner at seven. Right.

[00:36:00] And they're telling me that they're waking up at two 33. O'clock right. If you go from seven to three o'clock it's eight hours. All right. You're out of fuel. All right. Most people think when you go to sleep, you put the car in park. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, REM sleep is the stage of sleep that burns the most calories.

[00:36:17] So you are burning through glucose all night long. And if you don't have enough fuel in the tank, your brain says, Oh shit. And it spikes cortisol to wake you up to go look for food. One of the things that I think happens in the middle of the night, So, what I've discovered is this stuff called guava leaf tea, not guava fruit and not guava juice, but guava leaf tea.

[00:36:41] There's at least one study to show that it helps keep your blood sugar consistent. Um, I've actually also found that raw honey can be very, very helpful. Um, not a jar. But a teaspoon of raw honey, and don't get the kind that comes from the bear. You want the kind that's got the honeycomb in it. What did the farmer's market and get your honey?

[00:36:59] I appreciate that distinction because I was thinking about the bear. Yeah, I know. That's why I'm telling you go to the farmer's market. You also, by the way, you want to get local, honey, if you can. Hmm. I want to get local. Honey is because of the particulates, the flowers and all of the allergens that are in it.

[00:37:14] Your body will start to become immune to it, and they won't have as big an effect on congestion and things like that. So honey has got a lot of amazing medicinal purposes to it, but it's actually a great for helping you with allergies as well. Now I will admit to you that I have some patients who get the guava tea and the honey, and they put them together and they find that to be quite helpful as well.

[00:37:33] Um, Also, I want to mention a quick, quick question, because you said two hours, no fluid. When do I ingest the quality? This instance, if you were waking up in the middle of the night to pee, then I would allow you to have just the six ounce cup of guava tea, about 30 minutes before bed. I'd still want you to have stopped your fluids about two hours before, but then I would have you have that gravity.

[00:37:57] See what happens again? I don't want you to be dehydrated. I don't want you, like, if you haven't drank enough water during the day that, you know, clearly you want to hydrate, remember hydration does help the sleep related process. I love it. I mean, I have this thing right next to my bed with a warm water.

[00:38:13] So whenever I wake up even a little bit, and I feel that dehydration, right, that, that, that, you know, my eyes dry my throat right now. It just took a quick swig before I go back to sleep. So it's perfect. Now we've talked about situations. That or remedy a bowl. Um, but there are a lot of people who wake up at two o'clock in the morning and they're fucked.

[00:38:34] They're like this sucks. I can't go back to sleep and they are being wide awake. So let's address that as an issue. Yeah, actually one of my friends, uh, he said to me, Hey, CK, I sleep twice. I will wake up at four and then I work a little bit and then I'll go back to sleep. So go ahead. So if you look historically, that's something that we did.

[00:38:53] So when we were an agrarian society, so a farming society. When the sun went down, people would have their last meal go to bed. They'd wake up at like two o'clock in the morning, they'd have another meal. They may have sex. They may walk around the house and talk to people because back then, you know, you had entire families, extended families living in the home, that kind of thing.

[00:39:11] Um, they, then they would go back to sleep. They would wake up when the sun comes up and then start their day. So historically our bodies and we look at it, um, from an evolutionary perspective, it appears as though there were two sleeps. When the industrial revolution hit and things that light bulb came about, we condensed our sleep into one sleep period during the darkness, um, because we were able to have light on different sides of that.

[00:39:35] So it kind of changed the whole kind of structure of sort of how we look at it. Yeah, yeah. Totally. For sure. Get in the middle of the night, what do we, what are the other things that we need to do? There's one thing that we haven't addressed, which is attitude. And that turned out to be the most important one.

[00:39:54] So most people, when they get up in the middle of the night, they look at the clock and what do they say? What'd I say, go to see, he goes and he goes to sleep, right? They say, Oh shit. And they say, fuck, I got to go to sleep. And so they try to force themselves to sleep. Exactly. And they don't. Um, all that happens is you call the autonomic arousal.

[00:40:13] You cause increase in blood pressure, increase in heart rate. The one thing that most people don't know is you want to, if you want to enter into a state of unconsciousness, you need to be at a heart rate of about 60 or below. So the object of the game in the middle of the night is to lower your heart rate.

[00:40:26] To allow yourself to get back to sleep. There's a hundred different ways you can do it. You can do it with four, seven, eight breathing. You can do it with progressive muscle relaxation. There's again, lots of tools and techniques that you can use in the middle of the night. One of the things I want to talk about is optimism.

[00:40:43] There's really interesting data to show that if you're positive before bed, not only do you fall asleep more quickly, but you have more positive dreams. To be fair, dude. We could all use more positive dreams right about now. Um, so I, I wanna tell people when you look at the clock in the middle of the night and you say, Oh shit, you want to flip that?

[00:41:01] Okay. Instead of saying, Oh shit, you want to say, that's awesome. And I'll tell you why, because you want to change your attitude. When you, when you look at that and you try to force yourself to sleep, it's never going to happen. There's this another piece of data that most people don't know, which is if you're lying in bed for about an hour still awake, you still get about 20 minutes of rejuvenation.

[00:41:22] If you will, from a bodily perspective, you're not moving around. You know, your muscles are relaxed, you're getting some ATPs flowing through there. It's not a bad thing. Right. So when you're lying there, you're actually doing your body some good. So that's number one. Fact, number two is give yourself a break.

[00:41:39] Okay. Look at the clock and say, you know what? I've had bad nights before. And if I don't fall back asleep, it's not like my head's going to pop off. I'll be able to get up and go to work. It'll be shitty, but I'll be able to go back to sleep the next night. And if I don't the next night, it will probably happen the night after that.

[00:41:54] So, number one, I'm not going to worry so much. Number two is Dr. Bruce told me if I lie here and rest, it's worth a little bit of sleep, so that's good for me as well. I want to think about this as an opportunity, not as something that's been taken away from me. So now I have the opportunity to take a great nap this morning and fall back asleep.

[00:42:13] And if I do that's awesome. And if I don't, I know I'll survive. What we discovered by teaching people how to tell themselves this in the middle of the night is it lowers their anxiety. It lowers their heart rate and the natural sleep process takes back over. They fall back asleep. So avoid that. I almost wonder if there could be an app or just a soundtrack, just the very soothing affirming that.

[00:42:36] Hey, it's okay. Exactly. As you said, right? Yeah. Um, Cool. Is there any, so, so one, I noticed one other common question that a lot of people ask you is this whole idea of, I can shut up my brain before I go to bed. Now, this younger CK would definitely affirm to it. Luckily I now have my spiritual practices, so I don't encounter it as much.

[00:43:00] I go to sleep early, but, um, But what would you say to those that, you know, have a very busy mind and mental chatters and they just can't shut it off. Yeah. So that's the third, most popular question that I get out, which is how do I turn off my brain at night? Um, and, um, so to be fair, um, there's a lot of things that you can, that there's a lot of things that people do.

[00:43:23] That forced their brain to keep thinking. Right? And so one of my favorite techniques is what I call a power down hour. So if you know what your bedtime is, and you go back an hour, you can chop that time up into three 20 minute segments, and you can give yourself a much better shot at falling asleep and getting those thoughts out of your brain that are given, making it difficult for you.

[00:43:43] So 20 minutes for, you know, just shit, you got to do 20 minutes for hygiene and then 20 minutes for some form of meditation, relaxation, prayer. Yoga stretching, whatever slows you down. Right. And helps you get there. Right. And so for people who are forcing sleep, what's usually happening is they're saying they're looking at their watch and they're saying, Oh shit, I got to get up at six.

[00:44:05] Oh, should I get up at six? I better go to bed at 11. Oh no, I better go to bed at 12. Oh crap. Now I better go to bed. It's one. Right. And that's what happens. And you're toast at that point. Right? Because you you're working yourself up. I promise you from a performance standpoint, the data is incredibly clear, go to bed.

[00:44:25] You will have better ideas. You will calculate better. You will think better with rest, you know? And so getting people to kind of understand that is going to be is going to be, you know, important. Yeah, for sure. Um, plus you have much better, a more pleasant person to be around, as we know, as just when you're people like pleasant people.

[00:44:45] So if you want to be quote unquote successful in the world, Yeah, I'll tell you about a cool hacking device that works with this whole brain thing. If you want it, if you want to hear about it, please, of course, it's called the EB versa. Cool. Drift ebb by em therapeutics. Okay. Interesting. So Dr. Eric Nofsinger who a very famous sleep researcher was a neurologist and he was studying this phenomenon of this.

[00:45:09] Can't turn off your brain. And he would, he had been an ER doc early in his career. And one of the things that happens in the ER is, um, if somebody cracks their head open, they actually wrap their head in ice. Um, it's called the neuroprotective effect of cold. And so it just slows down the blood flow, the cerebral spinal fluid.

[00:45:25] So that way, you know, you don't have massive problems, you know, while you're there. Basically patching somebody up. Right? So we knew about this neuro protective, effective, cold, and he was doing MRI studies on insomniacs and watching the blood flow across the frontal part of their brain. And for the people who said they couldn't turn off their brain, they were right.

[00:45:46] They had increased blood flow in the frontal cortex. Right. So he remembered this neuroprotective effect of cold. And he developed, it took him five years, but he figured out the right temperature and the right temperature flow and dynamics throughout the evening. You wear this device on your head. I have one here at my house.

[00:46:04] I use it nightly. I fucking love it. Okay. It's amazing. You put it on your head and it cools your forehead. I gave it to one. I gave it to a guy that, you know, probably, and he turned to me and he said he put it on and he tried to watch television and he kid, he couldn't focus on the television. Just fell out.

[00:46:25] It sounds like a miracle device. Uh, to be honest with you. So here's the issue that I had with it is they brought it to me and they said, Michael, we want you to endorse this device. And I was like, I don't have that problem. Um, and I don't even know if this works and they were like, we want to give you one and we want it.

[00:46:40] We want you to try it out. And I was like, okay. And so I put it on and I clicked it on. I woke up six and a half hours later. Literally hadn't moved a muscle. So that was weird. So then I took it off the next night and I had my normal sleep and I heard it on the third night. You know what? It's like CK, when you wake up and you just say, damn, I got a great night's sleep.

[00:47:03] Yes. Well, it happens rarely, but yes, that's what happened to me after wearing this device for a couple of days. Huh, and I was shocked. And again, I don't have the problem. I'm not the guy that says I can't turn off my brain at night, but I use this device and I woke up and what I felt like was my sleep was solid, was consolidated.

[00:47:22] Like it just hit the marks exactly where I needed it to. And. I've found that to be very helpful for several different people. So, um, I'm, I, I, I do endorse the product that you get paid by the company, FYI, but I am here to tell you, my wife asked me to borrow mine and I said, no, Yeah. Now, even for your wife.

[00:47:43] Oh my gosh. That's a, that's a funny conversation I am curious about, but, um, I'm watching the time, so I can't speak for, I, I definitely want to speak to you for four hours, but we're a limited amount of time. So a quick, curious to know, kind of thinking about all the new technologies, right? So. The a few years ago, it was all about like red bulls five-hour energy.

[00:48:06] And then the East did it. These days is calm.com as a SMR, sleep supplements, VD, CBN, all that stuff. What is the big things on the sleep that we should pay attention to as a way to improve our sleep effectiveness and sleep efficiency. Other than that device that you just mentioned. You know, there's so here's the thing is there's all kinds of things, different things, looking at temperature regulation.

[00:48:30] So if you're a biohacker and you really want to start to zone in temperature regulation, I think is a, is a place that you can, you can find a home and really start to improve the quality of your sleep, because remember your sleep cycle follows your core body temperature cycle. So knowing and understanding more about that and devices that work there can be helpful.

[00:48:49] So like there's a, there's this thing called the chilly pad. This is a pad that you place underneath your sheet, and it can run warm water or cold water through it. That can be something that's interesting to be fair. I know I keep beating the dead horse, but chronotypes, chronotypes, chronotypes, that's outside.

[00:49:03] That's the 80 20, for sure. Yeah. You know, like that's really gonna make a massive difference for you. Um, if you're able to follow it for folks out there who are still struggling with getting, with getting to sleep or staying asleep, um, there are some herbal supplements that can be beneficial. Um, I've done deep dives on many different ingredients out there.

[00:49:23] So please feel free to head on over to my website, which is the sleep doctor.com. If you go to the blogs, I've got 800 blogs in there of questions. People have asked me, I've done monographs on ingredient profiles. There's more in there about melatonin, you know? Um, P E M M a S M R like I've researched and looked at the science behind all of these things.

[00:49:46] So whatever you see out there, there's a reasonable likelihood. I've, I've probably covered it, but I do want to challenge all of your listeners that if you do have some. Interesting news ideas surrounding sleep. Feel free to email me or email CK, and we'll come back on and answer your questions and, you know, talk about some of your sleep rituals and let you know how they make sense, how they may not indifferent things you can do.

[00:50:10] Hey, Michael. I just really want to acknowledge you for, and you know what, one last question. Okay. You are more than just a sleep doctor, because you have mentioned many times how sleep impacts relationships, couple relationships, actually. One other thing I also want to ask you, if I forgot to ask you had talked about how you best console couples with opposite sleep cycles.

[00:50:32] You also have sex as well. So yeah. What is that thing that, that you hinted by never sure in your Ted talk? Absolutely, but he wants to know what's the best time to have sex. So let's talk about it. So it turns out it's all biological. So you need five hormones to successfully have intercourse. You need estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, um, you need cortisol and adrenaline all to be high, and you need melatonin, the sleep hormone to be low.

[00:50:59] So we did a survey and we discovered that 73% of people have sex between 10 and 11 o'clock at night. Okay. I'll give you one, guess what your hormone profile looks like. Your melatonin is high and all the other hormones that you want are actually low. So that's hint. Number one in number two, what most men wake up with in the morning and erection warming would.

[00:51:21] Exactly. So if that's not mother nature telling you when to use that thing, I'm not sure what is right. Most women are not interested in sex. Not because they have a headache. It's because they're too fucking tired. Like. Many many people are very exhausted at the end of the day and not necessarily interested in having sex.

[00:51:40] And so when we look at it from like, what is the best time, believe it or not, it's morning. Um, we see better performance. We see longer erections and we see better connection with your partner. So that's pretty interesting, but the big question that people always have is, well, wait a second. If I'm dating an early bird and I'm a night owl, like how does that work?

[00:52:00] Like, it's easy when we're both early birds or when we're both night owls, but what happens with the difference there? So I actually created a matrix in my book where you can put your, so I've got male on one side, female on the other side, and then I've also created multiple, um, for lesbian couples and for homosexual couples because the hormones are different and major CS they're based on your chronotype.

[00:52:21] So. It's not as complicated as it sounds. I give an early morning time for sex. And then an early evening time that works out perfectly from a hormonal standpoint, based on the two credit. So a quick follow up question there, then we'll complete. That is scientifically logically makes a whole lot of sense.

[00:52:41] How do you enroll your partner to say, Hey, let's do that in the morning. That that would be the next thing. Right? So do you have any suggestions there? Absolutely. So this actually turns out to be a lot of fun because it becomes an adventure. Right? And so what a lot of people will do is they say, Hey, I just took my Kronos quiz.

[00:53:00] And I'm a, this chronotype you take your Kronos kids and what your chronotype is, and it will actually teach us. A lot of different things about ourselves, our sleep schedule, when to drink coffee, when to drink alcohol, things like that. And usually the partner's like, Oh, well, that sounds kind of interesting.

[00:53:16] And then they, they pose the sex question and they say, actually also one of the other things is it talks about how there are better times to have sex. And one of those times is in the morning time. Now what's really interesting for most guys is they don't realize it, but a lot of women would actually prefer.

[00:53:32] For to have sex in the morning time. Um, and so this actually turns out to be quite an invitation. And so a lot of times, um, your partner, whether it's a, you know, same-sex partner opposite sex partner actually may like that idea. Right. And it's a great conversation starter, right? Because you can think, well, I've got this prototype and you've got this prototype.

[00:53:53] What do you, how do you think we should do that? And it's, it opens up the door for a really fun, interesting conversation. And so what I tell people all the time is try it. Right. I'm giving you the, I'm giving you the prescription for having sex in the morning. So all of the listeners out there, I want you to try having sex in the morning for the next week.

[00:54:11] And let me know if it's any better or any worse. Michael bruise ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much. I mean, I could literally talk to you for hours, but I'm also watching the time. So I want to take a few moments to just really acknowledge your Michael. Thank you so much for sharing your, your expertise or knowledge or wisdom generously.

[00:54:28] To my listeners and really get into not just the philosophical, the framework, but also the tactical. Right. And I also want to acknowledge you for saving people's sleep, saving people's, you know, inner peace, you know, their cognitive ability, but ultimately saving their lives. Cause I have. Staring at, I mean, that's a whole other story.

[00:54:47] I accidentally stopped myself because I fell asleep doing a laboratory section. Oh my gosh. Luckily I'm here. So hallelujah. Yeah. But, um, yeah, and also saving people's relationship. So just, you know, thank you so much for the work that you do really acknowledge you. Thanks. I appreciate you

 

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