My guest is Dr. Jeff Spencer – a legendary cornerman coach who has helped athletes win over 40 gold medals, executives build iconic businesses and thought leaders catapult to the top of their fields.

He has been featured in Forbes, Inc., Huffington Post and worked with Bono, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, Nike, Hitachi and Bulletproof.

His proudest achievement is raising his adopted daughter with his wife.

We talked about…

  • 7:32 The 2 parts of our human nature: survival instinct and champion’s mind
  • 18:47 The role of an elder for champions
  • 20:12 3 kinds of advisors champions have: coach, mentor, cornerman
  • 25:52 The criteria and responsibilities of a good cornerman
  • 92:25 What’s the biggest difference between elite champions (Bono, Tiger Woods) and the rest
  • 105:59 The source of FOMO (and his secrets to living a peaceful life)
  • 110:54 The art of having a pre-conversation as advisors
  • 50:03 The nature of the imposter syndrome and the self-doubting voice
  • 61:02 His magic eraser method to erase past regrets
  • 67:55 Finally, why this is the pivotal moment in history to show up and express your truth

Please enjoy my conversation with legendary cornerman, Jeff Spencer




Full Episode


Wisdom Quotes

Nobody is born with our assets, which gives us an amazing opportunity to create a life that set of distinction, and also put our unique stamp on humanity over time, based on the forces that we're around and what our natural inclination is. Click To Tweet We should never try to skip any of these steps to try to be too wise, too fast. Click To Tweet The experts are promising the shortcut that people will pay tens of thousands of dollars for, but there are no shortcuts quite honestly. Click To Tweet Finite games are those you have a body of evidence that creates a trajectory towards something that's visible; infinite games are what's beyond the horizon. Click To Tweet Human nature has two parts to it: survival instincts produce survival and champion's mind a living, breathing supercomputer Click To Tweet Elders should be viewed as a resource, as a reality check against presumption Click To Tweet There are three types of advisors: 1) a coach who is a specialist, 2) a mentor who covers a single area, 3) a cornerman who has an influence on everything in their lives Click To Tweet Full potential play is really a destination that's always morphing and changing over time. Click To Tweet The key here is that you're not adding more to what you're doing so that you're suffocating yourself, but the sophistication of the level of play is continuing to evolve to higher and higher levels over time. Click To Tweet Everybody talks about imposter syndrome. That's garbage. The real imposter is us believing that the voice inside us that doesn't want us to go to our goal as us. Click To Tweet You can predict pretty accurately how 90% of the population is going to respond to whatever that particular event was just because human nature is so predictable. Click To Tweet There's not a more important time in human history than now to showcase human courage. Today's world can't capitulate fast enough to the biggest bully. We need concrete evidence of people who can manifest things of significance. Click To Tweet If you do not control your variables, the faster you go, the more risk you incur. Click To Tweet It was very clear that his job was to have me exposed to things and whatever was natural for me to absorb, I would absorb. Which is beautiful because then he wasn't crafting me to be the next incarnation of him. He wanted me to become the… Click To Tweet I would never be so presumptuous to prevent them from the experience of becoming who they are actually through their own merits, because I would be taking away their ability to develop confidence in themselves. Click To Tweet If their language and their presence of being don't radiate with a certain presence and language that translates to being able to deliver on the promise, you can't trust that they're going to get there. Click To Tweet Goal focus is a combination of hyper-focus to complete actions in front of you that advance towards goal completion. But also is a peripheral vision that goes to 280 degrees of view and in peripheral vision or situational awareness Click To Tweet There are certain ages that are much more vulnerable to FOMO than other ages, when you're in your ascension, then there is a lot of comparisons Click To Tweet Every one of us has got an invisible hand that's holding us back that won't let us go all in Click To Tweet If there's ever a point in human history where we really need to come from our truth, it's now more than ever. Click To Tweet There's only one of everybody in all of creation that has an unique ability to manifest a very unique contribution to humanity. Whatever environment is necessary to cultivate the opportunity to maximize that. That's what I'm for. Click To Tweet It's extraordinarily important that we don't place a judgment on what we believe the value of our contribution is. If we compare what we believe the significance of our contribution is, that's a huge disservice to us. I don't think that… Click To Tweet


Transcript by AI

Jeff Spencer Transcript by AI

How to Deliberately Play At Your Full Potential_

[00:00:00] Welcome to Nobel warrior. My name is  noble warriors, where I interview entrepreneurs about their multi-dimensional journey. So you can engineer your life with more depth, meaning and legacy. If you have any friends who grapples with taking a leap of faith, to have more meaning in their life, go ahead and share this episode with them. That really thank you for it. 

My next guest is Dr. Jeff Spencer. He's a legendary corner man, who has helped athletes win over 40 gold medals, executive build iconic businesses, and thought leaders catapult to the top of their fields. He has been featured in Forbes. Huffington post and work with the likes of tiger woods, bono, Lance Armstrong, Nike Hitachi, and Bulletproof. His proudest achievement is raising his adopted daughter with his wife. 

In our conversation, we talked about the two parts of human nature, the survival [00:01:00] instinct and the champions mindset.

We talked about the role of an elder for champions. We talk about three kinds of advisors. Champions have coaches, mentors, and corner men. We've talked about the criteria and responsibility of a good cornerman. We talked about what's the biggest difference between elite champions like Bono tiger woods and Lance Armstrong and the rest, we talked about the source of FOMO and Dr. Spans was secrets to live a peaceful life. We talked about the art of having a pre-conversation as an advisor before your clients turned a corner. We talked about the nature of the imposter syndrome in the self doubting voice and Dr.  also share his magic eraser method to erase past regrets. And finally, why now is the pivotal [00:02:00] moment in history to show up and express your truth?

Please enjoy my conversation with the legendary cornermen Dr. Jeff. 

Without further ado, welcome to Nobel warrior. Jeff, thank you so much for, yeah, well, thanks. I love the Nobel warrior side of it. You know, all of us have got a warrior inside, but we have to fight the noble fight. So it couldn't be a better choice of words. So I want to talk about wisdom.

That's something that I'm deeply appreciative, Nobel warrior, a huge part of it is all about, uh, really helping people go through the journey from warrior to commander to king.

Every video that I see you speak on the bicycle, riding somebody throwing some random numbers, or is there any random questions you're always so articulate. You're able to speak in triplets, this, this, and this in all of them without much as an arms and verbal ticks. How do you do that? I'm so curious. I think [00:03:00] about channeling it's showing up and, uh, really listening to the question and being able to share your response without running it through a filter.

I think also after time, when you've examined your life and you've had a chance to look at things from multiple perspectives, clarification is one of the refinement byproducts of that. That allows one to say more in fewer higher impact words. So when you say channeling, if you don't mind diving deeper into that, generally from what, where is this from?

Where is this inspiration and wisdom coming from the, within the, without like, can you say a little bit more about that? Yeah. I think it's a combination of all the above. All of us come into this world is, uh, a unique, uh, addition of one. There's only one of us in all of creation. Nobody has our perspective.

Nobody is born with our assets, which gives us an amazing opportunity to create a life that set of distinction, and also put our unique [00:04:00] stamp on humanity over time, based on the forces that we're around and what our natural inclination is. We gravitate towards certain things that create our unique cocktail of us on how we view the world.

And also how we describe that to others. And that's a journey that it never has an ending. You never arrive at an end point. It's always in evolution. I think there's something in us that all would like to believe at a certain point. We'll get to the summit where we can cruise control for a while. But as far as I know, that's not happened yet.

And I feel that also when we're in the process of opportunity to share a sacred moment in time with people that we come from our truth, uh, so that there's no ambivalence or misconstruing who we are in what we stand on. Hmm. I think, I don't remember exactly the different levels that you had is competitors something, something championship the way I [00:05:00] interpret, what you just share is ultimately when you get to, when you start out playing finite games, right.

I want to win. I wanted to get some metals, but for me, and after winning some of those games and I'm like, okay, to me now, it's more about the horizon, the infinite games. I'm curious to know if you can help articulate the difference between finite games and infinite games. Well, finite games are that you have a body of evidence that creates a trajectory towards something that's visible.

And that's a point a to point B, full visibility, but then there's a conjecture, like what's beyond the horizon. You can look at your assets and do an exercise of uncensored possibility thinking to take maybe what our us, our assets are now. And if we bolster them in some way, shape or form, what might be possible, it's probably.

It goes both way, of course, but probably more likely that if you learn to become an [00:06:00] uncensored possibility thinker, which is actually a skill that's where we take the time to learn, to penetrate our ceiling of what we're comfortable with, thinking that we believe is possible, but we actually talk ourselves beyond that.

Then there's a possibility that maybe we don't have the assets to get to yet, but perhaps that's the very thing that informs us of what we need to do to get the assets that puts us in a place where we can then look at what we're proposing and actually believe that it's possible. And if that's the case, then we just need to prepare well and make sure that we have, uh, the path moving from where we are to where we want to get to.

And we understand what the process of getting from where we are to where we want to get to, it's going to look like so that we don't talk ourselves out of things when things start to appear differently than we anticipated. Hmm. Now I want to circle back to what we started off the importance of having that elder, right?

Because in, especially in [00:07:00] America, this is whole idea, this myth of the self-made man versus having a championship team. So I'm curious to know, can you tie that out? The role of the elder, the evolution of someone who has been there, a competitor now you're an elder, um, in wisdom, I mean, and then how to, how now that you're an elder, how do you help another to. Be part of their championship team and then help them evolve that I look at it is that, um, when we're born, we all have a human nature and that human nature has two parts to it. Two mentalities, actually we have a human mindset mentality. That's our natural survival instincts that we have that are used in times of imminent danger, whether it's psychological or whether it's physical, that this faster than we can think that gets us out of harm's way, which, which we obviously need in critical situations, but it's designed only to create [00:08:00] and produce survival.

It's not a good recipe for creating a life of excellence. And that's where the second mentality comes into it, which is our champions mind, the human mindset, our human nature way responding to life that comes naturally to us is pre-programmed into us. It's on 24 hours a day. You can't shut it off. It's on.

And it is responsible again for getting us out of harm's way. The biology is that it's faster than we can think. Have you ever said anything to somebody that you regretted saying after you set up and before you said he thought it was going to be really awesome, but it ended up being just the opposite.

Well, that's all the time,

like all of it. So that's, that's really a really good example of this high-speed survival reflex that we have within us as fast as we can think. We didn't ask for that. That's hardwired into our biology, just the way it is. But we do have the champions mind, and the champions mind is a living, breathing capacity, [00:09:00] supercomputer beyond superficial theater that can route edit, interpret store and transmit information.

Yeah. Purposeful information selected to be conveyed in a very certain way. And that's a evolutionarily more recent part of us. That's not survival directed, but it's all about creating a life of excellence and meaning a contribution. And these two parts of our human nature, our mentalities they're at war with each other 24 hours a day for control over our decision-making.

And we experienced that as a continuous uneasiness about life, where we're pulled and tugged in one way, and that we're pulled and tugged another way. We just kind of don't know which way to go. And that's how we experienced this tug of war. And most people come from there, uh, human mindset, which is it's set, it's fixed.

You can't modify it. And they say, well, that's just me. That's how I am. Well, [00:10:00] it's really not. That's the hard wiring of survival, but that's not the best part of you. So we have to be really clear about what we're referring to. And we need to challenge our assumptions about what we presume to be true about the nature of us.

And the other thing that we'll say is that. The champions mind that can look at things from perspective. It can run it through the lens of experience and wisdom and make good choices that history tells us that if we do this, it'll take us to where we want to get to because there's a body of evidence that confirms that it's not speculation.

Human mindset is speculation. You want it bad enough. It's going to happen? Well, wait a minute, hold on a second. Just because you want it. If you don't have the skills, you're not going to get what you want. So there's a lot of mythology that surrounds this. But to, to only say that, um, these two parts of our human nature, we need to be mindful of to decide what we're going to align ourselves with.

Because if we want to create a [00:11:00] life of excellence, we can't get there. If we engage life through our natural human responses, because they're based on survival, they're not based upon excellence. We have to step outside of that to actually become supernatural in a sense that we're not a slave to our high-speed reflexes that do not serve as well.

So I'll kind of begin our conversation, keeping that in mind, and it takes a while to start to see that, wait a minute, maybe this kind of go with my first impulse. Isn't such a good idea because it's not serving me that well, but yet that's what all the experts are saying. So I just suggest that we take the time to kind of examine this a little bit.

And we look at how we make decisions and we see, well, is it actually taking me to where I want to get to? Yes or no? And if it's not, then it's probably because we're stuck on our human mindset. We don't understand the Champion's mind yet. And that's why I say that the journey from, [00:12:00] uh, early developmental, um, exposure to environments, people, places, and things, uh, will inform us about certain things.

But over time, we can develop a wisdom that supersedes that, where we're making predictable choices that can accurately take us from where we are to where we want to get to, but it takes time in the game and it takes a receptivity and a willingness to learn and apply unconventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom is what do I feel about this respond quickly?

Uh, when we invert common wisdom, then we're coming at it through a contrarian view, which is what the champions know about themselves and others that other people don't, that creates the distinction between what they're able to produce and what the others would like to produce, but they can never produce consistently.

There's so much there. I mean, we can spend a whole thing right there, right. Because in my mind, how do you go from intellectual? Like, uh, understanding of something to deep [00:13:00] embodied. Uh, and on this podcast, we do talk about maybe nine in the way that you talk about it. When we talk about our deepest wisdom lies in the intersection of the body, mind and heart.

So, so this is a little bit different way, but I think it's similar. So I'm curious to know how do you discern not just the survival instinct, not just pure intellectual understanding, forcing into something. I should do this because of my inherent identity from my parents or something wanted validation or something to something that's deep within the body, right?

They embody wisdom from the heart, the gut biome, or the mine as well, working together to really come from that place of deep wisdom. I think it's a great question. I think first and foremost is that what's the source and the Genesis of the information that we believe. And in that respect, we have to take whatever our hypothesis is or what we believe to be true.

And we implement [00:14:00] it and then we measure it against the reality of the outcome, because there's a lot of things that sound good, but they can't deliver. And that may come from deep with them, but it gets really messy inside because how do we dissect intuition from emotion? You know, I mean, everything starts to get pretty jumbled up in there.

I feel that over time, the best way to handle this is that if you have an impression about something. You may want to check in with somebody that's a little bit more downstream to check in on what you're presuming to be true and see what they have to say about it. And if it's in alignment with it, then you're probably interpreting it correctly.

But if it's not, and there's a reason that is well founded to question your interpretation of it, then it deserves pause. And that way we're getting experiential feedback that confirms to us what the reality really is. And first part of life, I think [00:15:00] there's a lot about presumptions because, uh, I, I know that there's a certain age group where people think that whatever they think to be true, it is just because they think it, and then they realize, you know what?

I did a lot of really stupid things that really hurt me a lot. But man, did I think that they were right? Well, let's take, for example, a boyfriend or girlfriend. I mean, have you ever had a boyfriend or girlfriend or both at the same time and you feel like this is Mr. Mrs. Right? I mean, this is good. This is good as the guests.

And then like two weeks later, you think what, uh, what was I thinking? I mean, this couldn't be a worst match ever, but it seems so real at the time. I think we've all had that. And that's why time in the game is important. Wondering about our presumptions about what our first impulse says is that an impulse from our human mindset.

That's all based on fear or is that a wisdom play based upon historic wisdom? That's been current firmed [00:16:00] through, if I do this, then this is what history tells us will be the predicted outcome. It takes a while to get there. And as I told my daughter, I said, look, you know, the zone of doom here is between 18 and 25.

If you can just get through the zone of doom there, because she declared it 17 data, I don't need your help anymore. I just know everything there is to know, and I don't need your help. I know what to do. I got it. Don't worry about it. Amy's last words. What I'm saying. Just remember we talked about this in advance.

We got the zone of doom here can just promise me that you're not going to do anything reckless. It seems really important. A good to you before you're 25, just please get to 20, get to 26, you know? Um, and so I think nobody's going to listen to chorus because we all think just because we think that it's true or we feel that it's true, but it can take a lot of scar tissue to realize that our presumption wasn't correct.

And, uh, I feel that it's really important to have deep, meaningful [00:17:00] conversations that tease out the difference between impulse reaction, response, heart, soul intuition. I mean, all of this gets kind of messy and if we don't have an operational definition. That represents it, uh, correctly. Then we can use a lot of things interchangeably that we believe to be true, that we can be given a nod for that actually take us down a path to ruin actually.

And that's why I suggest that, uh, again, there'll be some level of ongoing counsel about what history informs us to be true about certain thoughts that we're thinking in. What does history tell us about what that outcome is? So I agree eventually over time, what happens like for myself is that I've been in the game so long.

I have pattern recognition where I can see [00:18:00] it a snapshot in time, the context of everything and know what that pattern represents, and I can know exactly where it's headed and also come up with the right path forward to the promised land. But that's been experienced that in skill that I've developed over time.

So is, have you ever seen the movie limitless? No, I haven't. I Bradley Cooper. Okay. It's real. It's a cool movie, but anyways, uh, since you don't know, I won't make the reference. Nevermind. Okay. Moving on. Uh, What do you think is the role of the elder inside of what you just share? You know, having one human, having a subjective experience, but also checking in and, you know, objective term, you know, whether things are going the way that you want it to go and so on and so on, what's the role of an elder in this case?

Well, the elder should be viewed as a resource, as a reality check against presumption, because the worst thing that can happen is that we make [00:19:00] a judgment on a presumption. That isn't true, but it seems right. And that happens all the time. And there's a timing of pacing. There's all sorts of factors that need to be considered in regard to actions taken against the predicted or desired outcome and experiences, a different than intellectual learning.

There's a lot of people that pass the test correctly, but fail the life experience. Therefore there needs to be an apprenticeship taking what we academically learn and test it against reality. It would be best in ideal. If we do that in a safe environment where we limit the scar tissue and we don't take or put ourselves down the cul-de-sac that takes five years to back up out of, and a lot of time and effort and expense.

And we also then start to not trust ourselves because some of the reckless choices that we made that we thought to be true, that didn't work out so well. That's always a risk in the situation. [00:20:00] So you call yourself a corner man versus a coach. Yeah. So before I asked you for the questions about that, do you mind sharing your definition of a coach versus a corner, man?

Yeah, sure. The way that I look at it, there's like three types of advisors. You have a coach, who's a specialist in a single area. For example, when I was working with U2, uh, Bano had a voice coach and his job was to be there and warm him up before he went on stage, I was this whole single objective. That was a slice of the pie that had to go right for him to perform well on stage.

It wasn't everything he didn't know about the rest of his life, but it could help him warm his voice ups. But again, screwing up on stage may be the result of something other than he gave him. But that was not his domain to have any influence on. Therefore Bano was still at risk. Then you could take in coaches are necessary chorus like, yeah, Chad is guitar string.

And he's the guy that came and changed all the guitar strings. You know, Larry on his drum, same deal. Those are absolutely a hundred percent necessary, but let's make sure [00:21:00] that we clarify the domain and why they're there and that nobody trespasses outside those boundaries, because then we may get inaccurate information that, uh, puts us in peril.

Then you have the, uh, mentor, who's got a little bit more bandwidth. Like you can have a life mentor, I guess is one way of looking at it. You could have. Uh, a business mentor. You could have a financial mentor, a little bit more scar tissue, a little bit more gray hair, et cetera, a little bit more wisdom, but again, it's a similar problem.

They only know their level of expertise. Well, what about the rest of this person that has influence on everything in their lives? How do we count for that? And from B that's where the corner man comes into it. And when we look at a corner, man, this is a person that's older. You know, in my opinion, they have to be at least 60 years of age.

And the reason why I say that is that it takes about 50 years to get through one lap of life where you've seen about everything for the first [00:22:00] time. And then after that, you start to see things a second and a third time, oh, now I start to get the pattern here. And so I'm 20 years past that first lap. So I've got, you know, 20 years into this and about 500,000 hours in the high-performance world.

So I've had a pretty darn good exposure here about seeing what the reality and the patterns are. Um, and then you have the rarest of the species, which I call the corner, man. And if you look at this from a couple of perspectives, generally, people have a lot of advisors or coaches in a variety of different areas, but they don't have anybody there in their corner watching their backs, watching everything unfold in real time, taken as a totality.

And an example of that would be the movie. Rocky Rocky had Mickey, the older guy in his corner who was watching rock while he was in the ring, slugging it out, trying to survive and stake his territory. Uh, Mickey knew what to do based upon where rock [00:23:00] was to be able to avoid catastrophe and be able to see his best opportunities to win the round, to become the perennial champion of the world.

And a couple of key words here as to see the full spectrum of the person's experience taken as a totality, like I can be with somebody and I can know enough about, through some questions that I asked what the composite of their personal or professional life looks like as a totality in their universe that has forces acting on it.

And they think in a certain way that creates a trajectory. So I kind of know where this is all gonna end. Then the question is, is this where you want it to end or not? 'cause if it is, then you just read the guard in front of it, but it's, if it's not, then you need to make some course corrections. So we have this presumption that whatever path Ron is going to take us where we want to get you, just because we have a plan.

Well, maybe there's more than that. And unless somebody is looking at it in totality that has the experience to look at it and intervene and tighten things up, [00:24:00] then again, we're making presumptions. So an example of this would be is that, um, if a group of peers has the same problem and they're giving each other their recommendations.

Should we trust that where you could trust that to some degree, but they probably have the same problem. So they're giving each other similar advice that may not be enough advice that we need, that somebody that has more experience can give us that is more predictable and being able to take us from where we are to where we want to get to.

And that's the value of the elder. They're not some crotchety person that says get off my lawn.

It's like me shortcut your path to bigger. And let me save you a lot of unnecessary pain and scar tissue. To me, that's what the elder is. But people that are older are looked at as either damaged goods or [00:25:00] faulting in their thinking or being old-fashioned. But the one thing I do know is that truth is truth.

And if we know how to interpret what we see correctly based on history, then we have a really good chance of being able to get to the finish line the first time without tripping. Because if you trip and you don't finish, you don't win. Hmm. A lot of gems in what you just said. Um, let's see, what do we go from here?

Well, uh, as a corner man, Could you identify other corner mints? Cause you said those are few and far between yeah. Yeah. You know, whether someone is up and coming corner, man, whether someone's already made it, you know, the experience corner man, a good one versus a bad one. So from someone who's made it 

what are some of the criterion that you can give to our listener to say these are the things that you want to look for in the corner, man? Sure. Well, [00:26:00] first off, let's talk about a couple of things here is that, um, you know, 50 is an important age because as I said, it takes about 50 years to see everything in life, in a corner man of somebody that can see your life from every conceivable perspective, because they've been there, they have the experience and the knowledge to have been successful in many areas and help people in many areas become successful.

They can meet you where you are and they can re they can bring your perspective. That's the right starting point for you in your journey journey, moving forward in its entirety, both personally and professionally, you can get a technical expert. That's 40, that'll show you what ink cartridge to use. And you're a predator for sure.

Or they can give you, well, this is how you fire somebody. You know, they could give you technical information like that, but that's again, a mentor or a coach that that's not a corner man. A corner man is someone that could. [00:27:00] Off the mountain comes out of the cave once in a while and walks down into town and says three words and turn around and go back up the hill, back into the cave only because they have this universal ability to see it.

So here's my criteria. You gotta be about 60, at least. I know that sounds like ancient, but it it's kinda like really not. Um, you can't be too pretty if you're not walking with the light,

you know, or, or a Nick out of your ear, you know, I just don't trust you. Okay. I got to see some evidence of scar tissue and so tested, tested, man, you know, there's something like pretty man, just, I don't trust it. We got to have that for sure. Um, and then they have. Dress in a certain way that kind of informs you that they're current and present.

You know what I mean? You can't be like I'm too old fashioned or whatever. There's gotta be [00:28:00] some indicators of current relevance that they're sensitized to. Uh, I think also there is a resonance that we need to have spending time around them or looking at videos on them, et cetera. There is a resonance that you're going to perceive that maybe isn't intellectually, uh, understandable, but there's something about an inquisitiveness that there's a gravity towards.

It's a worth of experiencing. And of course, looking at their pedigree and, uh, generally, uh, a corner man can be in many different areas. Like I can work with people in sports, business and entertainment. It doesn't matter to me. Uh, the details of the specialty, someone else can come in as a coach and they can help you again on, you know, what program you need to be or what app you need, but it's you, the person, how you show up you, can you lead?

Can you make good decisions? You know, do you know how to choose a right goal? How is it that you're mobilizing your team and why should they follow you into the future? Do you even trust yourself? I mean, those are all questions [00:29:00] that need to be looked at and there needs to be a credible source of, uh, credibility in the individual to, to believe in.

I'll also say that. Yeah, there's a couple of maybe strikes against them. That's not assigned to dismiss them because that makes actually may be a sign of trust because they've kind of been through what they would need to be through to be able to understand everything. Like it's not unusual for even the most successful businessman to have gone through, uh, you know, perhaps a bankruptcy, but yet they came back stronger while they learned something.

So that imbues a certain level of trust that this person has really been through the full spectrum of experience. Um, those are the things that I think are, uh, really necessary. And I'm also gonna say that if you do this sooner than later, it's better and you don't go for less than it's important to go.

But if you, if think a highly paid, uh, advisor is expensive, hire an [00:30:00] amateur and see how much it costs to get out of the problem that he'll create for you. That's the way that I would, I would first do this. I think also another thing is that if somebody talks too much, I don't trust them. You know, th the people that really know the game, they don't really necessarily talk a lot.

They're not trying to hog the microphone. They're not trying to make a point. They're usually the person that's sitting in the, you know, more in the back of the room, kind of anonymous. You don't really notice them their dress and their appearances is appropriate, but they're not clamoring for the microphone.

They're not pontificating about how great they are and who they've worked with. There's a certain, uh, level of. Ambivalence. I think that kind of needs to be there where they kind of have this, take it or leave it sense about them, where you can trust them. You know, that they're going to tell you what it is.

They're not going to tell you what you want to hear just to keep, uh, the, um, rotisserie going for another couple of months. I think [00:31:00] those are back up. What, what was that reference rotisserie, but, you know, it's like on the conveyor belt, you know, well, let's keep this going. We're just ready for a breakthrough.

Let's work for the next six months. I just see the breakthrough right around the corner. You know, I've already heard this, you know, for the last 18 months, you know, it's probably not real yet. I think also listen to their language. If they're promising too much, too quick, that's never like a good sign that you want to make sure that they're not trying to make you fit what they know the corner, man, that needs to be able to extract your essence and be able to come to you with the path that you have resonance with, you know, that it's been personally constructed for you, uh, based upon, uh, their experience as well.

Those are all really important criteria. Mm. Um, so here's a few things that I remember. Okay. So over 60 battle tested, underlined is battle tested. And in [00:32:00] part of it, I think sharing my personal experience when I was younger, I wanted someone who would perfect tracker. But then after having gone through a few dark night of the souls moment that I realized, I actually don't want someone with perfect track record because then no relatedness to people who are going through their dark night of the soul.

Right. Cause there's actually huge learnings and blessings in disguise. And I want to get those insights from someone who's having gone through, you know, maybe bankruptcy or divorce or whatever dramatic thing that they go through because they, once they're over once they're through it and they come out stronger.

Exactly. Right. And they can give, uh, advice, not because they learned it in a book, but because they experienced it. And you can hear that in the conversation for sure. You know, there's a resonant tone where certain things are said in a certain way that inform you that this person's lived the experience, you know, there's a trueness to it.

And that's a really important maybe non-verbal criteria to be [00:33:00] mindful of when you're in the presence of somebody that you're perhaps considering for that important role. Yeah. And he also said, this person isn't eager to hog the mic, correct? Because to me, you didn't say this, but this is my interpretation.

This is what I say is, is a sign of insecurity. If you have to speak versus a real confidence embodiment, like, Hey, I know what, I know what, I don't know. You want it fantastic. You don't want it.

You know, energy about this, you know, gravitas. It's a great word. Yeah. So, so these, and then also you said dress appropriately, so it's not too, uh, disconnected with the times. Right. But is it still like subtle? Yeah. The feeling is they're kind of listening, you know what I mean? I can tell that they're listening.

They're kind of, they're, they're, they're where they need [00:34:00] to be. They're not, overdressing, nothing's worse than a 65 year old woman wearing a miniskirt. You know what I mean? Trying to be relevant, you know, it's like now I ruined myself for the rest of the conversation because I got the image in my head now.

But you know, just to say that I do not have a comment on that one yet.

Um, just to sort of say, things have to be kind of proportional, you know, it's like their brain, if they're driving a brand new Corvette, that's kind of racy for them, you know, maybe something more understated that would make sense. So there are kind of these signals that you sort of look at and you say, okay, is this person really current, but they're not trying to visit them.

Prove a point, you know what I mean? There's this, again, this cocktail, this mixture that has a resonance of safety that attached to it because they don't have too much investment in trying to convince other people of their value. I guess that's what we're saying here. Yeah. I got it. Fully embody place of confidence.

Right. [00:35:00] And yeah, the young energy. Right. Okay. Yeah. I want to bring it to the theme of our talk. I can talk to the theme is how do you deliberately play at your full potential? And I know that you are a man of precision, so you chose those words very specifically deliberate play full potential. Right? So share with us a little bit about why did you pick those words and put them in that particular phrase, uh, to play a big game.

It's intentional, it's a process. It's not an accident. It's deliberate in a sense that there is a, a path to that place because we only have so much time to get there. We can't rush and we can't, uh, just take forever to get there. It's deliberate. It's, it's calculated a lot of people think that it's spontaneous, but it's really not.

People think that well and talent or enough, well, it's something, but it's not [00:36:00] everything. It's a really about, um, time in the game. It's about building the assets over time to not try to get ahead of yourself. It's about charting and setting milestones that have to be met that are signs and indicators that you're on track to get from where you are, where you want to get to.

And those are the reasons why I say it's a deliberate. And there's another perspective of looking at this is that full potential play is really a destination. That's always morphing and changing over time where your full potential play at 40 is different than your full potential play at 60. Therefore we're never quite getting there and staying there.

We can get to their moment by moment and hold the space, providing that we're continuing to evolve. And the key here is that you're not adding more to what you're doing so that you're [00:37:00] suffocating yourself believing more or harder. We'll get you there. But as we're developing proficiencies in certain areas, we're then substituting them for something else that needs to come in.

So the volume of engagement stays the same, but the sophistication of the level of play is continuing to evolve to higher and higher levels over time. And if we look at this as a progression between. Different states of being, you could say that you could be a spectator where you're not even on the ladder you're watching from the outside, or you could be in the game for the first time, new to it.

Then you could aspire to top a field. Top of field goes to master. Master goes to champion champion goes to the full potential player. It's an Ascension ladder that if it's a path that we choose to be, that we can find our way through those different, uh, Ascension points along the ladder, [00:38:00] that will take us to that rarefied air.

It's one thing to get there. It's another thing to stay there. That's a constant process of evolution that has to be crafted in a very special way to be able to hold that space and definitely over time. That's what that kind of looks like. It's not for everybody. People think of full play, meaning that I have the ability to put my maximum into my recreational life maximum into my professional life.

It's not like that, but here's the secret to this. Everybody listen up. If you're going to remember only one thing I say, listen to this is that when we look at the number of elements and parts that have to be there to have the combination of skills and assets to play at our potential, once we've identified those, we want the minimum amount, the minimum number of those items.

Once those are optimal, And notice, I didn't say perfect. Once all the parts are [00:39:00] optimized, then they harmonize into a single system. And when we reached that point of harmony, then there's an exponential output capacity. This, the emergent property of all the parts working together, you could look at a family, for instance, you could say, well, when everybody in a family is doing what they should be doing, not perfectly, then there's harmony in the family.

And when there's harmony in the family, then there's exponential potential to enjoy the experience and contribute to each other. So therefore it's a different kind of way of looking at things. We're not chasing a perfection in one single area. We're not downgrading any area to be average, we're saying that we're looking to optimize all the parts that need to be in the system.

And once they're optimized, they harmonize into exponential and juggling. That is really the whole name of the game. Again, that's a corner man issue because [00:40:00] each of those balls that are in the juggling act, that has to be at a certain level that requires a certain level of expertise input to hold the level of performance required of that to maintain the exponential cemetery.

If that makes sense. Yes. That's the art, that's the art of the game right there. It's so good. Everything I'm man. So like this right here, the segment is so good for those of you listening. Definitely go back and listen to it again. On this podcast, we use the ying yang sign a lot as a way to illustrate what you just described.

The, the, the whole idea of actually bringing the harmony between the ying and the yang. So we can actually, it's not about perfecting one area in the maximizing that it's not about perfecting or, or maximizing both is really about bringing the point of harmony. So it should not be, you know, work the best you to truly optimize.

[00:41:00] And from that space of harmony, then you can play bigger and bigger games. Yeah. And it's interesting because that goes exactly opposite of what human nature makes us think. Human nature makes us think, well, you gotta be perfect across the board and everything to be perfect and put in the perfect performance, that's complete mythology, but yet to our human mind, that makes sense.

To the human mindset, that makes sense. But the champions mind, they know that that's not real and it's actually not necessary. So again, we have this human nature mythology that talks to us in these platitudes of language that all the experts are talking about. And we all believe in wag our heads in agreement.

But yet when we look at the champions mind, they actually invert that common wisdom, which produces the outcome. That's necessary to move up the Ascension rung, to become best in field, become your own champion, then move up into full potential play. So, so [00:42:00] let me bring it back to the, um, the role of the elder real quick.

Cause you had talked about being an elder, being a corner, man. You're able to see the entire field better, right? Your ability to see it in objectivity because you're not in the game, so to speak. Right. And then that you can avoid some painful moments, but I want to challenge you a bit on that notion because part of the player earning the wisdom, earning the Stripe is through the pain.

How do you, you know, yeah. We want them to learn, but naturally not cripple themselves, so to speak. Cause I'm curious to know how do you balance that so that they could still get the wisdom that they need versus just get intellectual understanding. Right. So that would be the minimal minimal buyer, a minimum viable exposure.

That's a new term. We just coined here. We just invented this here in this podcast. Uh, for example, my [00:43:00] daughter, there are times when I actually wanted her soccer team to lose because I know the only way they can get better is to really see where the deficiency were. And they were getting just a little bit too confident in their level of play.

And I can see their growth being stunted by, uh, the mythology of believing that they had arrived. I mean, that may sound mean, but it's not mean at all. I just realized that, you know, I hope you guys wake yourselves up sooner than later to continue your path of evolution. That's where a corner man comes into it because a corner man knows how a corner man knows your reach.

That's the advantage, the mentor and the coach may try to make you fit what they know, but that's not what a corner man does. A corner man knows how to meet you where you are. And he knows how to create the right reach that will teach you the lesson [00:44:00] experientially without putting you in unnecessary harm's way.

And that's the difference. And that takes a massive amount of, uh, insight and wisdom. For example, uh, one of my very dear friends. And I'm sure everybody on this podcast would know who this person is. If I told you, but I'm not going to tell you because I haven't asked his permission to share this and his name, but he asked me if I would spend some time with his 14 year old son who is an absolute prodigy.

And I said, of course I would, because he's someone I dearly love as a friend. There's nothing I wouldn't do for him. And, uh, the reason why he asked me to do this is that he and his wife had taken the son about as far as they could go and they know what I do. And they ask if I would do this. And I said, of course I would.

And in talking with the son, I mean, that's a huge [00:45:00] responsibility being asked by a good friend to be the steward of their son that they're entrusting me to influence and giving input into the sculpting of their future. I mean, that's an amazing privilege. There's pressure that goes with that too. I mean, it doesn't bug me because I know what to do, but just to sort of say that, you know, that's kind of a highly charged, um, relationship, shall we say?

But as I told the, um, the 14 year old, I said, you and I are going to be talking right now is if you're going to be playing in the super bowl, Next week as the quarterback, because that's one of his ambitions. Then I said, that conversation starts right now. We're not going to talk in a different way. And then all of a sudden change later to a higher level of sophistication is that you're going to now we experience what that is like [00:46:00] exactly.

As I would talk to an Olympian with aspirations of winning a gold medal, you and I are having that conversation like right now, because I knew that if I spoke to him in that language, he could adapt and absorb whatever I said, I just needed the prune, the language back, but to select what his reach was for what we were going to be doing for him to continue his evolutionary path towards his ambition in his evolution.

Like as an athlete. Quick question. Good question. Yes. One of the common coaching principles is meet people where they're at, but what you just demonstrate, it was more about actually speak to them from the actualized version of themselves and actually reach for that versus meet that's. Yeah, that that's correct.

Like, you know, if the child, we don't talk baby, talk to our baby, you know, we talk human talk to the baby. So they're used the human talk. We're not discounting them, but we're only saying we're not going to [00:47:00] discount what's possible for them. So I do believe that there has to be, uh, an aspirational side to this because.

People can rise to the occasion. I feel that we need to call to them from that place of giving. Other example is that, uh, I was, um, brought into work with a very precocious athlete. When I work with athletes right now, all of my work is in business just to get the record straight, even though I was an Olympian, I did help all these people win gold medals and stuff.

I'm not in the athletic world right now. So please, everybody be mindful. All my work is in the business space, but at that time I was, uh, brought in, um, as a very highly paid advisor to work with the talent that accompany, uh, had invested millions and millions and millions and tens of millions of dollars.

And for me to help, uh, craft his potential. And I said to him, I want to meet you at 10 [00:48:00] 30 on Saturday morning at this location, at the competition venue. And so I don't understand why 10 30, we don't compete until 10 at night. We're not going to be done until 1130. I said, I'll see you there. And he met me there, uh, that morning on Saturday.

I said, well, where are we here? He said, oh, well, this is where the press is going to be standing. When the trophies are handed out tonight in the television coverage is going to beam the ceremony around the world. I said, that's correct. What do you notice here? He said, oh, well, there's a stage over there. I said, yeah, what's on the stage.

You said a podium? I said, that's correct. I said, what are podiums for? We said, well, that's where the bronze gold and the silver metal stand for the award ceremony. And I said, that's correct. So what does that have to do with me? I said, I want you to go up on stage and turn around and look at me like on the press.

And I want you to stand up as if you just won the competition and look at me. And so he went up [00:49:00] there and he kind of looked at the podium. Like, I don't know if I should be here, you know? And then he kind of stood up on the bronze metal platform and looked around a little bit. And then he kind of, yeah, I don't know if I should be here.

And then he stood up on the top wrong, you know, where the gold metal wasn't he kind of looked around a kind of wave to me like that. I said that was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life. Get down off the, can you just do it? Like you believe that you belong there. So we went through this about 50 times and finally, an hour and a half later, he got it right where he stood up and he put his hand up there at just that chin up.

And I said, you got that? We'll freeze that. And he said, well, I haven't won yet. I said, well, that's exactly right. I want you to know what to do when you do when, so you don't get up there and everybody thinks you don't, you're wondering why you're there. Or you got to learn to do it before you get there. I see why we're doing this.

So that's kind of the point that I want to make is that we kind of do have to get ahead of ourselves [00:50:00] so that when we get there, we're going to know what to do. So here's the deal. Everybody talks about imposter syndrome. That's garbage. Let me explain why it's like, if you're here and you want to go here, right.

Well, how do you get to here with Penn here? You get to here by doing what has to happen to be this right. Well, how can that be an imposter? It's the way you go from here to here. The real imposter is us believing that the voice inside us that doesn't want us to go there as us. That's the imposter. So when we kind of realign this thing by saying, well, yeah, you know, we should get familiar with that.

So we can come from that when the opportunity arises. So we complete the action as it needs to be completed. So people on the outside look at us as if we believe that we believe to be there. Cause that inspires confidence in them, in us. So can we go drill in on that real quick? Because you just [00:51:00] share is tactical steps that you use as a way to cultivate a new way of being Allah, Allah champion mindset, right?

Correct. And then art of the illusion is my self doubt. Voice always would, would go away. And in my mind, I can make myself as an example, the self-doubt voice is always there. I just learned to be with it and then such that it doesn't impact me the most. I'm curious to know, since you work with the champion of champions, What's your, I guess, assertion around this whole idea of the self-doubt voice.

Well, I think we covered that previously. What I said, we have a survival instinct that we're born with that you can't shut off. That's biological in nature. It just is our primal objective as an entity is survival because if we don't survive, then nothing matters. That's why it's the highest priority psychologically and [00:52:00] physically that's the highest priority.

And so my position is, is that we do have a high speed reflex that takes us out of harm a way that's faster than we can think. Well, what proof do you have that? That's true. Well, if you look at the science, science tells me that I'm seeing you as you were 250 milliseconds ago, I'm seeing you as you were a quarter of a second ago, because it takes time for the optic nerve once stimulated to light up the visual cortex.

When I put my foot on the ground, I'm consciously aware of that a half a second later, we think everything happens in real time. That's not the way it works. The body rearrange, the brain rearranges thing, the nervous system, rearranges things in time to make it seem like it's now when it's actually not.

And therefore the high-speed response that we have that as well known is faster than we can think because the neurology, everybody thinks neuroscience is everything. Well, it's something, but it's not everything because there are other communication systems in the body that are faster than the nervous system.

One of which is [00:53:00] our survival instinct that is faster than we can think. You can't think your way to turn the car out of the way of an oncoming car because of the quarter of a second delay. That means you're dead. That's what it means. So clearly there's something, if you ever slipped on ice and your hand knows where to put it to break the fall, did you actually think your hand to go there?

No. Well then why did it decide to go there? I mean, clearly something was listening that was extra a nervous system. I mean, for sure. So the idea, the way that I see it is that all of these high speed responses to life that are biologic, we react out of the consequences of a story that's attached to the reaction that creates the fear of avoidance that we may remember as a story played itself out.

So a lot of people I've always asked people. Okay. So you talk about these limiting beliefs, [00:54:00] right? Okay, great. Well, can you tell me the origin of these? Where did these come from? Well, I don't know. Uh, I learned them from somebody. Well, are you sure about that? Uh, no. Uh, okay. So then are we born as a blank slate?

All of us are born as a blank slate and all of this stuff has put into us. Is that, is that the way this works? Uh, you know, I think so. Well, are you sure? Uh, well, uh, We're born clear and clean, and then we're corrupted by our environment. Then he asked anybody that has a kid, do your kids lie? Yeah. Who taught him to lie?

Um, well, nobody, uh, well, how come they know how to do that? So there's this whole other, I think inquiry about what we observed that deserves a level of consideration because in my opinion, and I just had a conversation two weeks ago with somebody about this. Uh, I [00:55:00] said, and we were talking about Todd, RA's a blank slate.

And I said to him, so you're telling me that all of these beliefs that we have are put into us from the external environment, we're born as a blank slate. He said, yes. And I said, well, is it possible? And is it true that we do have a survival reflex biology that's hardwired into us as human beings? Is that possible?

He said absolutely possible while I said, well, is it possible that that high-speed response to the life that you've just admitted to me precedes anybody, informing us of what it is to put those beliefs into us as possible. So we'll now that I think about it. Yeah. And so when I said earlier, have you ever said anything that you felt was just [00:56:00] the perfect response, but you realize it was the worst thing that you could have said and everybody kind of wagged their head?

Yeah. I've only done that a million times today. Okay. Well, how do we account for that? Because that was you saying it, correct. Nobody else said that it was deliberate and purposeful, but it was fascinating. You could think, therefore, where did it come from? Well, perhaps it's part of the reflux. So what I'm saying to you CK, is that kind of, in my opinion of this, as I see it, um, and as I've studied it, uh, that, um, really a lot of the stories that we tell ourselves are survival base one-to-one.

And if you ever want to know who the not you is, or the imposter is just ask yourself, did you response come from fear? Well, if it did that, it's a high speed reflects derived response, maybe faster than you could think. So I feel that there's a whole side of this it's biologic. It's not just [00:57:00] imprinted into us through what people say or what we've heard from our early developmental environment.

So I hope that, uh, that came across at least in terms of, uh, understanding what my response was to what you said, and I'm not taking positions. My position was right or wrong. I'm just saying that that's an observation that I've seen. That seems to be a very reasonable way of looking at this and accounting for the fact that humanity, uh, in our responses to life are just amazingly predictable.

I mean, humanity is so amazingly transparent. If you see a set of conditions, you can predict pretty accurately how 90% of the population is going to respond to whatever that particular event was just because human nature is so predictable. So I just wanted to add that part to the conversation, because if we can't account for that part of [00:58:00] ourselves that we look at is not being who we'd like to be.

If we identify that with us, we're screwed. And that's exactly what I told a group last night. I said that if you believe this person that did what you did was, uh, the real you, then you're screwed because that was perhaps not the real you, that was the not you that was responding that have a high speed, survival reflex, like yelling at your kids or physically hurting somebody.

These were people that physically hurt people. And they had a lot of shame and a lot of remorse about it. They could not forgive themselves for what they did because they thought that that was the real them. And I'm saying, well, It's probably not the real you, the real you is recognizing what was done that you would prefer to not have had happen, but yet it did.

And how do we explain that? And how do you find [00:59:00] redemption beyond that? That was the conversation. So I hope that breeds at least, you know, some level of, of perspective to consider in this conversation. Love it. Thank you so much. And one of the things I want to underline Jeff, is everything you said is very logical.

So, and then it's, it's almost like, um, it's too simple, but oftentimes wisdom is it's, you know, to, to condense everything into the simplicity of it. Right. So, so appreciate it. So let's say when someone has that limiting belief or guilt or shame or whatever, you know, worrying about things that they did when they're unconscious, right?

 So what are some of the ways that you use personally, as a modality to coach him out of that? Just use sheer logic. Do you agree with this, this and this, or more of what you share about getting on to the pedestal?  I know that you have many, but what are a few ones that you could share with us?

Well, the one that'll start with actually comes from my [01:00:00] daughter, you know, that we adopted 12 years ago, my crowning achievement was raising my daughter. So she comes from a. Columbia. She was raised as a criminal, a thief. We adopted her at 12, at 10, excuse me. And I was talking to her in bed one night when she was 11.

And in her broken English, when we adopted her, she didn't speak English. We didn't speak Spanish. Was all sign language incredible was crazy. Now she had a lot of abuse as a kid, a lot of physical and mental abuse it's as bad as it gets. And she said to me, daddy said, yeah. She said, uh, I did a lot of really bad things in Colombia, you know?

Cause she was raised as a criminal and lie cheat steal and it's all permissible. And she said, um, I want to apologize. I don't know how to do that. I said, well, you have a magic eraser.

And she said a [01:01:00] magic eraser. What's that? I said, well, here's the way the magic eraser works is that you kind of transport yourself and your mind to be standing in the presence of the people that you would like to make amends to. And you, you tell them as if you're standing in front of them, what you want to make amends for in how you would like to make those amounts.

And when you do that, what the magic racer does is it erases the memory and the history of that trespass and it resets everything back. Two is this as if that never ever happened. So what I'm saying is that every one of us has got a magic eraser. And as I told the people that I was talking with last night, this men's group, and these guys were some, you know, pretty hardcore people that were experiencing a lot of remorse [01:02:00] about the things that they did.

I mean, incredible remorse with it. And I told them that, you know, all of us hold a magic eraser. And I said to them that the impulses that you acted from when you did some of these things where your survival self responding faster than you could think, and you've identified with that as you and yeah, you're responsible for the outcome of this, for sure.

You're the one that has to bear the brunt and the responsibility for what happened here. But let's acknowledge that there's a biologic side to this that you didn't ask for. That's hardwired into you, that all of us have that we can't escape because it's on 24 hours a day that we're in conflict with that your champion side has regret remorse against in, in part of your recovery, in where the redemption comes into.

This is that you can erase your past [01:03:00] where you're emergent you can prevail if you use the magic eraser to take yourself back to those moments in time where you stopped have in front of the individuals and you make the amends in the way that you feel they need to be made in, that will erase that part of the equation, where you're never going to have to address that again, that will free you up to come from this moment forward from your champion self 

pause conversation today with someone and I had a client that I've been working with for a while that, uh, had a very, very difficult upbringing to say the least extraordinarily traumatic, but this woman is a genius.

And, um, one of the things that I said to her, because she's going through a period of incredible remorse right [01:04:00] now, she's a scholarship client that I've taken on because she was like chained to a bed for seven years as a kid, like deprived of any sense of human decency that really bent her frame. And she is a brilliant, she is an absolute genius and she's a PhD candidate right now, uh, writing dissertation for her PhD in psychology.

And today when we talked, uh, there was a, uh, a divine Providence. Thing that happened, that I guided her to that manifest for her to complete her dissertation, where it was a point where it may not have been, uh, enabled to be completed. But today when we talk, she was in such remorse that she's 55 and she has such remorse about what she wasn't able to do because of the severe trauma that was imposed upon her, that she did not ask [01:05:00] for, that she was acting out of incoming from, in that intense remorse, about 55 last years can be devastating to an individual when they know that there's only so much time left, but this is where I want to finish the story about these tools that you asked me about in what I said to her.

I said that like in the athletic world, what happens is that if you have a really bad year, but on the last competition of the year, you have a great, uh, competition. Then everybody's going to remember how you finish the job. That's the key here. And I said that you're 55 years had been severely compromised.

It's a miracle that you're able to produce this, uh, um, uh, this, uh, uh, dissertation. And the thing that I told my daughter to my daughter always wanted to write a book about her severe trauma. It's as bad as it gets. And I said to her, I said, her name is Ken K. Hmm. And I [01:06:00] said, Ken, um, the real into the story here is not that you survived your abuse.

That's not the story that can be told here. I said, the story that needs to be told here is what you did as the result of finding a way beyond, uh, your trauma and your survivorship. And this is exactly what I said to the woman today. And she was despondent. I said, look, uh, the redemption here in the magic eraser completes that job.

When you realize that how you end the game is what you're going to be remembered for that erases all the past. So you found a path back to reconciliation where you can look at yourself and say job well done, mission completed. You have the chance to do that. So I just want to say to everybody that remember the magic [01:07:00] eraser can erase the past and once that's done, then we can move forward with confidence and certainty because the scorecard is what we did with the redemption, that what our scorecard is at the end of the game.

And when we put those two things together, and then we have a path forward that we trust, then we become a bit like unstoppable. And that's how all of this gets magically erased. Where we can step onto the podium at the finish line with complete reverence and deep appreciation for the journey and the path that we will have gone through.

But in addition to that, we would have been a showcase for humanity to look out on how you do it. And if we ever need a showcasing of human courage in today's world, that can't capitulate fast enough to the biggest bully that needs a concrete evidence of people that can step into things and manifest things of significance.

There's not a more important time in human history than now. So those [01:08:00] are some of the things that I would say, all those things really close, because when we're, as I told the woman today, I said that when you're mentally weak, because you're tired and fatigued, which she was from, uh, her, uh, dissertation oral exam that she took.

Um, I said, when we're weak from exertion, that's when the boogie wants man wants to crawl inside our head. And that's when he's going to talk loud as to try to talk us out of things, that could be our finest moments.

Thanks for saying everything that you said with a lot of compassion and humanity. I think ultimately, you know, as coaches. We wanted to help our clients perform well at the same time, there is a bigger game underneath or the trophies they want to get. Right. Ultimately it's about empowering them to go through their dark night of the soul and to have the courage, to have [01:09:00] that way of being to believe in themselves and the ability to them and their place in the world, such that they can bring all of the, or transmit rather their, the traumatic experience into a gift and then share with others, the younger selves and so forth.

So thanks for the way that you share that. Yeah. You're welcome. Just one other thing I'll add to this while we're free-forming our conversation is that I have a concept called the double win. That is really important for me, for all the individuals and teams and organizations that I work with, that there is an academic goal that we wish to aspire to.

Like I want to become an Olympian or I was chosen to become an Olympian, you know, by my soul, which I showed up faithfully for and did manifest that. But to say that, um, there is an academic when, to the sets a goal observed that we achieve. But in my view, it's important that we declare, uh, some transformational things that have to happen within us, in route to achieving the goal.

Otherwise it's a half when I feel that [01:10:00] with my clients, one thing that's abundantly part of every one of our conversations is that. There are moments in the process where you're standing on a threshold that you have the choice of standing over and stepping into a different room with a different conversation, where in living, breathing time, you have a chance to break some of the chains of the past with behaviors that are no longer serving you well, that in real time we can address as we're aspiring to this next segment in pursuit of your bigger goal.

And I just make sure that we commit to that too, because it's a way of in real time, transforming ourselves simultaneously with advancing towards the academic, when the goal that we intend to pursue. And just one of the kind of call that out that, um, to really have a, uh, when that is transformative, in terms of validation of self, uh, capable of doing certain things, but also reading ourselves in the balance of the past.

It's no longer serving us. Well, I think that that [01:11:00] needs to be built into every one of the aspirations that we have. So what I'm hearing you say is it's not necessarily about the trophy per se, even though this is important in times who we get to. I mean, the process of there is that what I'm hearing is that an accurate reflection?

Yeah. A hundred percent in talking with a client today, as a matter of fact, I guess it's a client shared day, but we were talking about this. It's a new client that I'll be engaging here and she's very successful CEO. And what we were talking about today specifically is that these aspirations that we have these goals, she says that no, I want this to be a hundred percent driven by an internal change within myself.

I do not want this to be attached to a conventional goal that most people aspire to meaning something outside of herself like trophy or whatever. She wants this to be fully internalized by herself. So it's a transform, uh, a transformation of her, the individual, which I think always needs to be there because really [01:12:00] when I was dying from mercury poisoning 20 years ago, it's like, I realized that if I do die, I didn't want to die.

But some people time people do die. That the only thing that I was taking with me is what I gave others. And the only thing that I was going to be remembered by is what I did give them. That to me was the only thing that kind of ended up mattering from that point, moving forward. And I learned from raising my daughter, uh, probably the most profound case history that I've ever had the chance to be involved in.

I, I can honestly say that I have a certain level of invincibility about me. Not that I can conquer every mountain, but there's nothing that can really kind of hurt me that I haven't already seen. And that hasn't been addressed where I could sleep on a cot in the corner of a room and be happy for the rest of my life.

I don't care. Because what does matter to me is as long as I have my ability to help others and be of service, I know why I'm getting up each every day. And it doesn't demand that I have for residents at the four seasons. I don't care as long as I have a place to sleep and I can get up with honor that I can be of service to humanity.

[01:13:00] Then I live a peaceful life. So again, I'm not tied to other things. So there was that kind of an invincibility that the things that we think that we need that will bring us what we think that we need to have. I've found to be a bit, uh, irrelevant in a certain sense, even though I like beauty, I love fine architecture.

I love beautifully crafted furniture and wood and homes and cars and things like that. For sure. I'm just saying that that's not a condition for which I judge is a scorecard for myself and the value and contribution of what my life is. And eventually you get to a place where we see the value of those things.

Aren't what we thought they might be, but yet we can still hold and appreciate them. Yeah. I really love this. This is why something, what an elder will say, right? Because no longer about the pursuit of those things, those things are nice. You prefer it there, you appreciate the beauty and the, and the craftsmanship and everything at the same time also is here.

This [01:14:00] is my metaphor. When you were seeing this, you hold it. You're not, not like grasping for it. Like I must have it in order to feel fulfilled or significant in some particular way. That's the way I receive what you said, which is the way that it should be in that this kind of leads to another point.

There is that there are different decades that we go through that has a different lens of importance that we see the world through. We will make decisions against that. I feel that we should never try to skip any of these steps to try to be too wise, too fast. Because if we read a book, we try to be it that's 20 years beyond where we are.

That's not really you. So why don't you just kind of live where you are? Because what I do know is that if you're in your thirties, acquisition in scale is all you think about and that's okay. That's the way that it should be. So don't try to think like a 30 where you're giving back and you're thinking about philanthropy right now, or legacy because it's a little bit too early for that.

And I just always take again where people are. [01:15:00] And as long as it's developmentally appropriate, I want to make sure that we safely get through that period. But we learn the lessons that we need to learn to continue to build upon our resources so that we ultimately are able to optimize the number and the volume and the significance of the successes that we have moving forward.

So this is actually a great segue to this thing I wanted to ask you because as someone who has seen it all . When you see someone let's say, you know, who is in their thirties and they have an early success and you know, it's coming, they're a dark night of the soul is coming, right.

The walls coming, the internal, the external. And how do you prepare them before they go into the next phase? Because what most people do without proper advisement and so forth, they either, they would just blow it up subconsciously or consciously dry off the cliff, numb themselves with drugs or alcohol, or, you know, get a divorce, whatever way [01:16:00] to like a better word.

Self-sabotage right. As a way to go through that journey. So for someone who no is coming as the corner, man, how do you tactfully tell them it's coming? Because in my mind is a little confliction. You don't want to be the person plant that seed in their mind, a doubt at the same time, you could also kind of see it coming.

So how do you go about doing that period? Well, first of all, um, you know, I come from reality. I don't come from a theology and I don't come from, um, uh, practicality, you know, neither one of those is particularly useful because they're not exactly real in my mind. Part of the responsibility that I have as a corner man is to share with people what their journey is going to be.

And I know what the journey of initial goal. To goal achievement is I know what that path is and I know what's [01:17:00] coming and it's not what people think that it should be because the experts aren't talking about that, you know, the experts are promising the shortcut that people will pay tens of thousands of dollars for the shortcut, but there are no shortcuts quite honestly.

And so, uh, my responsibility to my client is to make sure, like, for example, the first thing that they do with anybody, if we're considering some level of engagement, is that we do a process that I call the clarity goal positioning survey. So we want to get abundant clarity on your goal and where it's positioned is right now, by doing a survey, a survey where they bring out all the instruments and make sure that they got the monuments correctly.

So the plot plan is perfectly done and manicured well, the clarity GPS is that because there are three things that we need to be explicitly clear on before we even begin pursuit of the goal. Number one, [01:18:00] your goals, what are they? And then we need to ask ourselves, well, are they the right goals? There's all sorts of goals.

There's big, hairy, audacious goals. There's moonshots, there's smart goals. But as far as I know, the most important goal is the right goal. And there's a criteria that I use with my clients to look at the goals that they're proposing to pursue. And we want to make sure that they're the right goals because right goals have the best capacity and insurance that they will be achieved.

And so we need to look at that. So once we've established that, which is kind of equal to the destination that we program into a GPS, and then we need to look at the starting location, like a GPS. And what that means for us as the individual is that we need to know exactly where you are at this moment in time taking a Thumbtack and putting it on the map on the wall and saying, you're here.

And we have the evidence of this because we've looked at all the different variables that we need to know about [01:19:00] you that determine your state of readiness right now, to pursue any, and every goal because knowing that state of readiness will inform us about the time and the energy and the distance between where you are and the time that it will take and the energy and the resource it'll take to get to that goal.

And we need to know that, but most people don't care about the starting location. Most people again, will pay tens of thousands of dollars to be given the plan just by my webinar. You know, they want the plan, just buy it, just follow it. And somehow that's a promise of a shortcut to get to where you want to go faster.

They just want to get to the winner circle faster. But if you do not control your variables, the faster you go, the more risk you incur. And what happens is that as you start to with. Then you're unhappy with the advice that you got, you hate the program that you bought. You've lost a lot of time and effort and resources pursuing something that maybe shouldn't have been pursued in the first place.

So for [01:20:00] me, you've got to be explicitly clear on where that starting point is. And once we've established the starting point, as it exists, your readiness against your goals, then we can devise the trajectory between the two that's got kind of two parts to it, based upon the current knowledge base body of evidence that informs us about what we can project out into the future.

The steps should be based on our current visibility, seeing the horizon that we're confident that we need and can get to, but then there are some things beyond the horizon that we could project and conjecture about that we can estimate, but we don't have enough information yet to say with a hundred percent certainty that they're correct as of this time.

But as we move forward in completing some of these initial targets, then we'll have more visibility. And we'll have more to say about that later. I want to know that first and foremost with anybody and why, because it helps me determine [01:21:00] whether I'm the right fit for them. It helps determine for them, whether they're really understand what it's going to, what it's going to take to get from where they want to get to them from where they are.

And so the way that I do it is that this is kind of a modular piece. And if they want to know, you want to get to the goal real quick, you said beautiful metaphors. So I wanted to on the cab real quick before we proceed. Okay. Yeah. Um, love the idea of having a GPS loved the idea of clarify, where one starts, where one want to go and then, then crop the path versus just give me a path, right.

A path to where I don't care. Just give me the best tool, the best, right. You know, funnel software. Right. Yay. Okay. Right, right. So knowing where you, where you are, where you want to go, then crafted other the path. Love it. And I also love, let me underline this. [01:22:00] It's not, it's, it's, it's about whatever you want to go start there versus going, you know, way out there where your headlight doesn't even reach.

Right. So what you see right now where you want to go, that's a place to start. Is that a correct recap? Sure. And I'll add a couple little points of texture here is that let's say you have your GPS. Correct. And my address is 1950 is what it is. So let's say by mistake or because I'm sloppy I program and you know, 1960, well, the GPS is good.

How the start destination on the wrong side of the street. So automatically we're off course before he even start. Therefore it's impossible to have the shortest path, therefore the risk increases of not getting to where you want to go and taking a detour off a cliff, actually. And then the other thing about this is that again, right.

Goal is appropriate for a given set of circumstances. And a lot of people come to me and say, well, Jeff, you know, I'm supposed to have a moonshot here or a big, hairy, [01:23:00] audacious goal, or as many as possible. And quite honestly, I don't even know how to think like that. It kind of scares me, but I need to go with the herd here.

So I pretend like I have one on, I know what I'm doing here, but I'm actually really scared about this. What do I do now? I mean, I hear this all the time. So the deal is, is that we need to learn to be able to achieve goals first, because as my cycling coach told me three time Olympian five-time national champion, he said, Jeff, I know you want to be an Olympian, but it's not about hard work and talent only, but uh, this type of goal, it's a learned behavior.

And I, as your coach, I'm going to teach you the skill of consistently predictably and repeatedly achieving your goals. We're going to start small and we're going to continue to build so that you learn the skill correctly the first time. And that's what he did say. Most people think that goal setting is goal achievement.

It's not goal setting is completely different than goal execution and pursuit. [01:24:00] I think somehow we had this idea that if we just have the right goal or the biggest goal, somehow everything automatically backfills well, I'm not sure exactly how that works out, but I found people to believe that because it does kind of sound good, but it doesn't have any basis in history.

Therefore, if you're interested in looking at my model for goal achievement, just take the time to go to www before you B E F R E Y O U w I Just go there and I'll show you a nice little video about the model that I've created, that I take my clients through. So again, big, hairy, audacious goal.

Let's make sure that it's the right goal first. And when we get to the big, hairy audacious ones, is it the right time? Because we have the competency to pursue that, or our confidence is up. We believe in ourself. And once we have, uh, established the right goal, we have the right trajectory. We know our starting point.

We know our goals, then that concludes clarity and that's the place to [01:25:00] start. And if a person wants to take what I do and implement it themselves, Hey, that's great. We want to do it with someone else. Well, then you've gotten what I would give any Olympian that has aspirations to win a gold medal. That's exactly the quality of what I'm giving to you right now.

If you want to do it with me and then we'll have a conversation about that. So that's the first part of the journey before you go on. I got asked for sure, man. It's all good. So, so you were seven years old when you even have the idea of becoming an olympian and you had  no idea. What's it like to, you know, the lifestyle, the grueling hours and any of that stuff.

So how did your coach coach you, because it was he speaking to you like an Olympian back in seven, or he was more of a, Hey let's scale it back, you know, quote unquote realistic goals and then work your way out there. Does that make sense? Cause you don't, you didn't know, what's it like to be an Olympian back then?

So how do you, I just thought it'd be cool to March into the stadium area. [01:26:00] Yeah, I would be cool. Well, it was, uh, again, um, you know, he said to me, first conversation is that, uh, winning is a learned skill. I'm going to teach you how to do that. And he was a cyclist at the time, himself competing at the highest level.

So he invited me to train with the other guys that he trained with, which was at the national international Olympic level. I was around that conversation. And while I was absorbing that, it just became natural to me to emulate that, which they were doing, that I had a proclivity for, that was put into me young because I was around that.

I thought, well, that's just normal. Okay. I can do that. And then he would give me my training instructions, the nuts and the bolts of how much the ride, how hard when that I was, uh, compliant with. Cause I have a self-start gene. And that's how my process began, where I was around it. I [01:27:00] absorbed it. I didn't have to redo the tapes with a different emphasis later because I was already exposed to the language at the top.

So my vocabulary grew and was developed around that and the behavior that was displayed for me, that I was around. I had the ability to become that. Therefore drew that out of me, it was a natural part of my being and it was a perfect fit. So it was an apprenticeship at the, at the highest level. Mm. I like that, that word that you just use apprenticeship because if I'm hearing you right, correct me if I'm wrong, if I'm hearing you right.

It wasn't like he was setting you up on the road to be an Olympian, per se, quote unquote. He was really more about teaching you the lifestyle, the vocabulary, the energetic transmission, the mindset along the way. And then it's still up to you to walk [01:28:00] that path or not ultimately, but he was really just more getting you acclimated to that lifestyle?

Is that, uh, yeah. Yeah, because I mean, his deal was, I mean, I know this, he didn't say it to me, but it was very clear that, uh, his job was to, uh, have me exposed to things and whatever was natural for me to absorb, I would absorb. Which is beautiful because then he wasn't crafting me to be the next incarnation of him.

You know, he wanted me to become the first version of myself and how my own pacing and those things that came naturally through my exposure that I took on was appropriate for my growth and my evolution at that point in time. And as I evolved in other areas of importance, then went through the same process.

So to me, it was perfect because there was no expectation. It's like I never got yelled at. Um, I was never under any pressure to perform at a certain level because the assumption was is that if [01:29:00] this is really for you, then you don't need me to motivate you. And if you have the intelligence and the capacity to do this and you'll absorb it and you can go as far as you can go, because you're welcome to join the party.

That's how it worked out. Is that how you relate to your clients as well? Very neutral. Or are you more of the yelling coach? No, I've never yelled at my daughter. No, no. It's like, I know by if we're doing the GPS with the person I know on our initial phone call, whether they've got what it takes or not, and if they need motivation while they're at the wrong place, if they're stuck in operations and nuts and bolts and things, aren't up and running, then it's a little bit premature for that.

It's just, you know, too much pain to try to be someone else's engine. It just doesn't work out. I think there needs to be enough respect. For the person in the process to not debilitate them by doing the work that they should be doing for themselves. Mm. So good. What you just said, can you say a little bit more about that?

Don't do the [01:30:00] work that they should be doing themselves. Yeah, for sure. Well, I think, you know, the job of the coach is to kind of know their tolerance at any point in time for what, and that's where you set what the next targets are and what the next refinements are of what you're doing. And I just put it out there as a matter of factly.

Like it's just implied that you're going to do this. I'm not going to motivate you to do it. It's implied that you're here because you want to fulfill what you have written to me in your application that we talked about, your targets are really your targets and you're all in to do this. And therefore we don't even need to talk about it.

That's just part of the implication of this. And I feel that, uh, if someone needs me to motivate them, then I'm doing for them what they should be doing for themselves. And I would never be so presumptuous to, um, prevent them from the experience of becoming who they are actually through their own merits, because I would be taking away their ability to develop confidence in themselves by doing that.

Mm. I love that, you know, in, in my men's work, which is [01:31:00] different from metal in my, another men's group, part of what we talked about a lot is how do you provide masculine care to other man? And, and I struggle with that. And I love that, that you illustrate that, that point so beautifully. Mm well, thank you. I think again, that's the responsibility of the coach is to really understand the reach of the individual and there's ways that you can suggest things that do draw them in to recruit them, to do certain things without, um, actually, uh, designing, uh, that too specifically for them.

And that's part of the art of the coach. They know how to put things out there that again are aspirational and inspirational simultaneously, and generally things that are slightly outside of the reach of a person they're capable of doing, but they just haven't done it yet. And as long as we choose those correctly, and we don't do that too often, we know when to push and when to pause and we give them the assurance of that.

I mean, kind of what I do with my [01:32:00] clients is I read them all about the high achievers, being able to peak perform on command by first off, not blowing themselves up. A lot of people do and being able to peek around the corner and see what's coming to seize the best opportunities, avoid preventable problems, and then kind of reclaiming your schedule.

And if you then those three things, and you're pretty much on your way to write your own ticket, moving from. So you've worked with some of the best of the best, right. Uh, was Lance Armstrong, she just named a few of them. There's a mythology of, they're more, I don't know, angelic than other people.

I mean, they're more, you know, they're not modeled, right? Like that's kind of like mythology, you obviously you've worked with them one-on-one before. So what did those two human beings have? The other people would just didn't

well, I'll ask you that question. People are going to be upset. [01:33:00] It's a great, it's a, it's a great question. I was thinking that, you know, maybe put Bano in there as well that, um, you know, all of them are looking for information and they want to know the truth of what it is like tiger. Is this serious, you know, Lance I'm feeling almost too good.

Uh, I mean, there's interesting things that they're looking for. Reality checks against what their experience is to make sure that they're neither over or undershooting that they're putting their energy and the effort where it counts and they're not coming into it, looking for a yes. Answer to make them feel good.

But they're actually looking for input that informs them. Their state of readiness and where that is in relationship to when they have to perform, which is really refreshing to do this. And you never need to worry [01:34:00] about that. They have a question they're going to come and ask, but they're not going to come and ask prematurely.

They're going to make sure that they'll ask the question when they've exhausted their ability to provide themselves with their own solution, which is exactly the way that it needs to be, that they are open to sound counsel. And they're fearless about implementing those things that make sense to them.

That implies that the people that they enlist to provide them with insight, there has to be an explicit level of trust in the value and accuracy of information that they're being provided with, uh, that they're incredibly resilient and they don't, um, take losing as B. They're not okay with losing, which I think is the proper way to do it.

I mean, they're very philosophical about it. They know they're not gonna win every time, but you know, [01:35:00] they, they don't take it as being okay. You know, which I think is correct as well. If there are things that could have done been done better. That's great. And as long as you can be graceful, when things don't go the way that you want, then that's okay too.

There's a certain honesty about them. Um, you know, it's interesting because when you look at the, the, the real top of the pile, they're, they're really neat people to be around. They're honest, they're usually generally very, uh, charitable. They they're extraordinarily intelligent and philosophical about things, but then the people just below that, you know, those are the kind of trash talkers, you know, the ones that the media finds that really exciting because, you know, they're always involved in some controversy and, you know, always digging up something and saying something off color, you know, you can tell the guys that are going to make it and stay there.

And you can tell the guys that may have a one-act wonder performance that can't stay there, just because they're just [01:36:00] a little bit too exaggerated and everything that they do. And they just didn't have a reality against what it takes to get the stay there. There, there's not a level of appreciation, um, that kind of needs to be there.

That that speaks to me that says staying power. And, um, you know, w what always astounds me is that the billions of dollars that are wasted every year on talent. And somehow people think that talent is going to be delivered on. I mean, if you look at the way that people think and talk to me, that's your insurance policy, because of what they're saying and how they're solving problems, doesn't conform to what you know, can get them into the winner circle.

Then no amount of talent is going to make. You lost me two sentences. One more time, please. I don't know what I was saying. Something, something about winner's circle the way they talk. Well, yeah, it's like I can be around so much for five seconds and you, you can tell the language that they use and what they're [01:37:00] saying against aspirations or whatever, and you can tell their reality and whether or not they're going to be able to get there.

And if their language and their presence of being doesn't radiate with a certain kind of known presence of being in language that translates to being able to deliver on the promise. You can't trust that they're going to get there. And they're probably not because they're not providing the evidence that you need to see to know that history tells us.

We need to be seeing to be confident that they can deliver on what their promises and people spend billions of dollars a year on talent, you know, on GRE scores and how fast they can run a 40 yard dash and how, what their bench press is it's really about. How do they think? And notice, I didn't say a mindset that I'm in a mow, anything down that I'm invincible, that that's not a good mindset, but I want to know [01:38:00] how their remember Champion's mind not mindset mind.

How is this brain thinking in interpreting and adjusting? And co-leading in responding to that. And when we have evidence of that, I mean, to me, that's our real predictor of how far a person's going to go. Hmm. Um, a lot of place to my, you know, my mind just came up with a question, not a question I normally will ask I'm well, I mean, with, with your discernment in the micro-expressions in the way that people speak and act and in presence of being in terms of athletes and not doing some like sports betting or something like that, it was that way you could just, you know, just like, Hey, this person's going to go somewhere.

Not a question I normally will ask a little bit more sophisticated, but I have to ask, I think it's a great idea. It was out the question [01:39:00] and you don't have to answer random. Maybe I should shift my emphasis a little bit more on the different, different verticals here. I think I have potential, but, but I think that there is a lot to say for that, because there are certain things that are absolutely predictable.

Like I can listen to someone talk and I could tell you exactly how far they're going to go because of the language that they use, the inflections, what their history is. I mean, it's a, it's a predictor of future. Like. And I, I get the talent side of it. But as my coach said, you know, well, and talent means something, but it's not everything learned skill.

And if I don't hear people talking in a way that confirms that they understand the process and where they are, then if it's wrong, you can't get to right. If it's wrong, it's not possible. That's why I kind of feel like every professional team should have me talking with every one of their potential [01:40:00] players, just to have a simple conversation, to kind of test the waters against their problem solving and how they really think mind over matter is not a criteria that that's not a great predictor of success.

That's usually a sign of impulsiveness that tries to get the advantage too quickly that often fumbles the ball on the one yard line. Quite, quite honestly. Um, my Alma mater is not a recipe for success. Say more about that cause you my, my, where you says the opposite. So say that again, if you don't mind.

Yeah. Yeah. So mind over matter that doesn't guarantee success, that's mentality is just like, I'm gonna mow down anything in my way and leave a trail of destruction two miles long behind me and all eventually get to the finish line. And I'm saying, well, that's not really true because you're, you're bringing hyper-focus to what you're doing.

Hyper-focus is really. Um, uh, state of being that any peak performer brings [01:41:00] into any achievement of notoriety, there's a special type of focus that I call . It's a trademark. Yeah, it's a trademark word. Gomez, G O C U S TM. It's a trademark word that stands for goal focus and goal focus is a combination of hyper-focus to complete actions in front of you that advance towards goal completion.

But it also is peripheral vision that goes from Kona, focus outwards on both sides for another 280 degrees of view and in peripheral vision or situational awareness. This is where we see better options starting to show up. This is where we see blindsides starting to form in their emphasi that if we see them, then we can avoid them from manifesting.

We can nip them in the bud. And if we see something that can take us to a bigger, better, faster goal, then we can choose it and change trajectory to ride that free insight to a bigger, better, faster that we [01:42:00] couldn't give ourselves. But before cotton hyper-focus, you're not going to see that. So the hyper-focus actually blinds us from some protection and, uh, from some better revelations.

So a lot of the mythology around this is pervasive. I get that. And unfortunately, um, it encourages a lot of people to do some things that actually discount the potential evolution that they actually have. Because it can't take them to where they want to get to, even though it sounds good. Hmm. So you had made a point to say that used to work with athletes and work with business people in the top level.

So can you share with us what's similar and what's different about, you know, the athletes at the top level and business people at the top level, what's the difference? And those are the similarity that you see. Well, one's a locker room, the other one's a boardroom, but everybody, everybody goes to their sacred space to conduct their meetings and things like that.

And the content and the, uh, [01:43:00] consequences and the path forward are relatively the same. And the challenges are always the same, you know, I mean, in the boardroom and maybe what sort of pencil do you want to use today? You know, we're in the locker room, what type of chalk do you want to use on the chalkboard?

But those are like business coach formalities. Those are not, um, really high level executive strategic, conceptual ways of looking at the unconventional to capitalize on opportunity. But I found there's really kind of no distinction at a certain level. It's about how you show up. It's about how you problem solve it's about, are you reading the terrain correctly?

Do you know human nature enough to know what to predict out of who based upon what they're saying? All of those are common to both domains. There is no distinction there. So to me, I can play in both worlds, uh, equally well, but again, if you want to know what interest rate to use, uh, [01:44:00] don't ask me. Um, but if you want to know how to interpret what somebody is saying, that could project what their potential is and what we can expect out of them, like that's completely fair game.

I like the, uh, the business space that it carries a lot of intensity. Uh, people are really inclined to listen. I don't mind the sports world if, uh, you know, you, the athlete are paying me and, uh, you have an have demonstrated to me. You have what it takes to be a coachable, someone that can step into what's possible here.

And I think that's becoming more and more difficult over time as the athletes start to overestimate their abilities and their contribution to humanity. Um, that's become a little bit more difficult to find these days. Say more about that last sentence. You said their ability to contribute to humanity.

Why is that important for you? Well, because I [01:45:00] think that, um, there are people out there looking for. Uh, ways of engaging life that lead to a life of prosperity and value. And we take our cues from someone. And usually those are people that are in the spotlight and they listen, if you're in the spotlight, therefore, whatever you say, we have to take as true.

That's not really true either. That's that's myth. And, uh, I believe that, um, there's a lot of opportunity here to influence in just a beautiful way that I don't think is being capitalized on. Um, I think it perpetuates a lot of the mythology and, uh, that's not a game that I like to play. I feel that we need to give people skills and tools that will help them have a lifetime of double wins together.

And, uh, uh, that's the way I look at it. One thing that [01:46:00] I hear a lot about these days is people have a real hard time dealing with FOMO, fear of missing out. You see, they see, you know, their friends making tons of wins and money from the development of crypto NFTs and new exponential technologies. And I'm sure it's probably similar in the performance sports space, right?

You know, this new healing technique and this new power technique, this new recovery method, how do you advise people dealing with FOMO? Well, what I do know is that if you try to cover all the bases, you're going to be mediocre at best at everything. Uh, and the world does change. Rap is changing rapidly and dramatically.

For sure. I get that there are certain ages that are much more vulnerable to FOMO than other ages, like at my age, who cares, you know? Yeah. Well, I mean, [01:47:00] seriously missing out on what, you know, it's like, I'm okay. I mean, seriously, I don't, I don't feel like that. You know? So again, when you're in your Ascension, then there is a lot of comparisons and that generally peaks in the early forties.

And so, you know, I've, I've got all this worked out. I, I have, I know exactly what's going to happen on each of the decades. Which helps inform me about the person's maturity and whether they're on a developmental path to manifest best or whether they're delayed behind or whether they're delusional. I mean, I've got them all in a system that that knows how to look at that.

But, uh, to say that, um, I would say that the biggest addiction that we have, the whole reason why we're addicted to our devices is because we're afraid that if we miss that one text, that that's the one text that will, uh, take us to the promised land. And if we don't get it, we're going to get left [01:48:00] behind.

And if we get left behind, then we're going to live a life of obscurity, no one to share it with, uh, nothing to show evidence of the quality of us and our capability. And I learned this because I, I always was wondering about there has to be a primal fear that we all have, because what I do know is that every one of us has got an invisible hand.

That's holding us back that won't let us go all in is just too scary to do it. It's like, I'm going to exhaust every possibility here. I'm going all in, in what if this doesn't work? It's too scary for me. I can't do it. There is an invisible hand that holds every one of us back if we're honest about it.

And we know it. And I wondered about what's the primal nature of that because there has to be a singular, something about that. And one day I was riding my bike, which is every day, which I intend to be doing here in a little bit. [01:49:00] Um, there was, uh, I was rounding a corner and there was this boy that was maybe 10 years old that had stepped off of a curb and was facing down the street.

And there was a school bus bench there that he had stepped off of. And the backpack was kind of hanging really low on his shoulders, you know, almost off his shoulders and on the ground is looking like this. And, uh, I wonder why is he so despondent? And I saw that there was a school bus that he missed and all the kids had their noses stuck against the back window.

And they were waving to him laughing. And I realized that he got left behind and therefore, uh, he was so despondent because he got left behind man. There's nobody to share life with. There's nothing. I'm here by myself. I'm insulated and isolated in. I realize that that's like the primal fear. That's why we're addicted to the phone because we, if we don't answer something we're going [01:50:00] to get left behind.

And if we get the line, we missed the school bus. We're not going to be loved or like we're going to be insulated in isolator. We will be ostracized from the group. There's going to be nothing left, just a dark gray tunnel that we're stuck in for the rest of our life. I realized that that's the primal.

And so again, that's a human mindset deal, right? Human mindset. I'm afraid. I mean, they left behind, that's not a champion mind action. It's not, but yet it's primal. We would expect that because that's high speed faster than we can think. And everybody's got it. Therefore it meets the criteria. FOMO is a perfect human mindset descriptor.

Um, so that's what I see. And one of the things that has to be reconciled in life is you're not going to be able to do everything possible. And nobody's got a crystal ball and there are many points along the journey that I've already figured out that I, you asked me earlier about how do I talk to my clients about their future without putting a [01:51:00] wet blanket over their enthusiasm?

Well, it's the point things out in advance. And the reason why I do that is that, and this is a typical conversation. I would say, take this from my daughter. I say to my daughter, you know, Ken, I need to talk to you about something. You're not going to understand this, but I'm going to share with you what you need to know right now to put it on record so that when it happens, you and I will already have had a pre-conversation about this.

We'll pick up where we left off because I'm telling you this. Now you do this weekly, quarterly, monthly, as it comes up, as it occurs to me, I do it, uh, on premises when it surfaces. And then I say, and this is really important. I say to her, because I never want to come. I never want you to come to me. And the words I never want to hear from you is dad.

Why didn't you tell me, I never want to hear that from you. I don't expect you to understand this now, but I'm putting it on record. [01:52:00] And when I put it that way, she never feels like I'm giving her a lecture. Cause I'm not. I'm pre informing her about something. Because as a dad, this is what I never want to hear from you.

So she knows I'm acting on her behalf when I'm saying this to her. And that's the way that I interface with my clients. I had that today, CEO of a company 45 years old, there is nobody in that company that would talk to her like I did today. And I said, you're in trouble. This is make it. Or break it time for you.

There are certain things that have to go, right? Otherwise you're in danger of a lot of things, not immoral illegal, but just health wise, et cetera. And so I came to her because I had the information that I shared to give her a preview of what's coming. It's not here yet. As I told her, we have time to make adjustments here, but on its [01:53:00] current trajectory, this is where it's going to land.

Let's just kind of know that like right now. And that's the conversation that I have with all my clients. Because I've been around the block a lot. I kind of know what's coming. Therefore I can inform them in advance so that they know when those symptoms show up, that now they're there where I projected that they would be now we need to have that conversation.

So what does that do for them? And what does that do for me? Well, first off, when it shows up, then they look at me as a mind, reader is a clairvoyant. They trust me a lot. They really want me to be in their corner moving forward because I bring to them a bit of a crystal ball to call out what they can't have conceived of yet.

Well, because I've been in the game longer. And I kind of know that if I see this, then this is coming so that it protects them and it makes me look like a genius. And so therefore the relationship continues as it should be. So [01:54:00] that's the way that I do it. And that's the conversation that we hold. And that's the conversation that I know that needs to be had.

But then again, to do that, there needs to be a credible source to be able to bring that forward where it's not intellectual learning that some brainiac learned from a book that's just reciting what they read, but never have experienced that. Jeff's, Spencer's told Lynn that's okay too, but you know, they can use me as a reference.

So I'm not going to tell you anything that hasn't been experienced, but, you know, we're just sort of saying here that. There is a level of credibility that's conveyed through the experience that makes it real. That makes a collaboration really close and really intimate because it's based on the fundamental element of a human experience, which is trust Jeff.

I mean, I'm looking at the time [01:55:00] just getting warmed up. Yeah, let's go. I mean, Hey man, if you will. Uh, but one thing I, I, I do want it to say, uh, the way I feel, right. The part of the reason I started noble warriors, because I want to talk to them, elders, you know, Chinese culture. We have a lot of reverence, of course our elders.

Right. And then for me, um, it, it, it, it serves well. Yeah, the, our listeners buy really main kind of large Rick, the ripple, the ripple effect continues that way. from my perspective, I definitely want to see more of you. So as in, as in, how can we use exponential technology as a way to duplicate Jeff, right.

And then such that it can serve more, uh, leaders, founders, entrepreneurs, as a way to. Built technologies that's online. [01:56:00] They really are versus because we make what we are. If we align internally, guess what the technologies were built on, that'd be aligned. So I've never done this before. I'm curious for looking, what possibilities do you see with cryptocurrency and Ft and all these other new things coming online, artificial intelligence, as a way to help you amplify the wisdom that you have, and then also keep your life more exciting.

Yup. Well, it will certainly do that in more. I think all of those vehicles are opportunities to reach more people faster, um, and also relieve the burden of some of the cumbersome of, uh, past recent past technology, which I'm, I'm a big fan of like for sure. So, uh, you know, I'm not going anywhere. I'm in this for the long game, even though I'm pretty long into the game, [01:57:00] I'm still in it because I have a mission to continue to contribute what I know to be true, to help those that, uh, find their way into, uh, you know, my proximity and vice versa too.

Uh, be able to, uh, illuminate the reality and some of the mechanisms that will allow us to be more effective in what we do. I think there's a great opportunity here for a collaboration on a variety of levels that, uh, I'm all ears for. I also feel that, um, you know, we're in a very challenging point in human history that, uh, we may find herself in a situation that's difficult to unravel and, uh, there's ever a point in human history where we really need to come from our truth.

It's now more than ever. They'll, uh, you to say more about that, actually, if you don't mind. Well, I just feel that, you know, the ultimate responsibility that we have is to speak our [01:58:00] truth. And when we come from our truth, then we've done our part, uh, in the human, um, experience. Should I say? And there's a lot of polarization, like right now that we'll find some level of equilibrium.

I don't know how to define that at this point in time, but, uh, I'm a champion of, uh, here's what I have to say about this is that there's only one of everybody in all of creation, meaning that there's only one CK and all of creation that has unique ability to manifest, um, a very unique contribution to humanity.

The only you can make, there's only one of me and there's only one of everybody. Whatever environment is necessary to cultivate the opportunity to maximize that. That's what I'm for, because I believe that's why we're here on this planet. You know, we're not here to forfeit everything that makes us distinct.

I think we're here to honor our [01:59:00] talents to showcase them, uh, to show other people what's possible and to not, um, decide the merits of our gifts based on the size of what we perceive them to be in their contribution, meaning that the definition of a champion as a manifestor gifts. So that level playing field, the levels completely levels the playing field.

And, um, it's extraordinarily important that we don't place a judgment on what we believe the value of our contribution is. For example, when I was, uh, had aspirations as an Olympian, a guy wore an Olympic t-shirt into a bike shop and I saw it and I wanted that. T-shirt the only way you could get it was to become an Olympian, but he does never remember wearing the t-shirt I'm sure.

But yet that one thing that I saw became my logo that I committed to for 10 years to becoming an Olympian, how they're not seeing a t-shirt then that would have liked, never happened. And what I do know is [02:00:00] that if we compare what we believe, the significance of our contribution is that's a huge disservice to us because.

I don't think that we should be the ones to decide on what the impact is. I think we need to cherish and grow our gifts. We need to show up faithfully every day to grow and build them and to showcase them and to implement them and wherever they go. And the people that they touch will combine in a certain way that will create a certain impact and statement and have an effect on the universe that we're accountable to.

And we will have as, uh, an entry in our life scorecard, um, when we kind of, uh, turn it in for the last time. And, uh, the other thing I'll say to conclude this year is that, um, going back to my daughter, who we didn't talk a lot about my daughter, but that's its own story. But to say that, um, if you ever doubt the value of a thing that you say and a thing that you do [02:01:00] adopted kid, because my daughter hung on my every word.

And for me, that's enough to get up every day and to be of highest service and to come from my highest place of contribution to show her what's possible as a father and hopefully as a role model, she will aspire to be because the other side of this is every day, decide how you're going to show up because, um, if people had showed up differently for my daughter, she wouldn't, uh, have the scars that she didn't ask for that were imposed upon her by the actions of others, both physical and mental.

That, uh, may hunter for the rest of her life. And she didn't ask for that then yet had people showed up differently. She wouldn't have to deal with that. And that's why I just feel like every day, if you can't show up for yourself to be the best that you can be show up for other people to be the best you can be for them.

It's part of what they need to see showcased by us. And it's part of our therapy for [02:02:00] us to become the best that we can be. And with that, I'll say, thanks for the opportunity to CK. It's really been a delight. Uh, one last thing we wanted to add on to what you just said, uh, Joe Rogan had a conversation with Dave Chappelle recently.

Yeah. I respect both of them. And, and then, um, they were talking about the value of having kids and then Oregon said, my children expanded my capacity for love. a hundred a percent. Yeah. A hundred percent, man. It's like, I, for me personally, um, you know, what I learned about love is that you can love anybody. She's not my biology, but you know, she does have my soul and you can love anybody at any time.

We just decided you're going to do it. You don't need a special agreement based upon what you're going to get back to me. It's a one-way street. It's unconditional. It's just a decision that you have to make. [02:03:00] And when you make it, there's such a liberation in that, because there will things that you will do for them that you won't do for yourself.

And they'll put you on your knees, uh, seriously. And why that's important is that every one of us has got something deeper in us that begs to find its way to the surface, to be part of our reason and showcase who we really are. But if life is too good, you're never going to ask a set of questions, steep enough to ever contemplate that.

And that's the value of it. And if you have a cold or a broken toe or a chipped fingernail, again, that is just insignificant to the nth degree. But when you're dealing with a child where there is no owner's manual and it's incessant day in and day out, it's a life-changer for sure. And I don't know, I'm not sure that most of us as humans have what it takes to be able to have the awareness and the introspection necessary to go deeper and [02:04:00] find that extra dimension within us, that can be our best and our finest work without children.

That's just my experience for myself that doesn't hold true for others. Uh, only experience will tell us which one it is. I mean, coming from you that's as a former Olympian the corner man of multiple, you know, metal is the best of the best. I mean, what you just said, speaks volumes. Well, clients matter, it's the gold medal of all time.

Thank you for. Hey, Jeff. Uh, I literally could speak to you for  hours. Um, just really appreciate how you showed up. Thank you. You just use it, how you channel, you know, divinity inner or, or within or without, and, and your commitment to really make a difference such that the ripple effect continues. So the best people can show up knowing that they are the manifestor of their talents and show up to [02:05:00] their best and then making them be a champion.

So, um, yeah, just thank you. I, I love you and thank you so much for being on noble warrior. Well, that's a very much appreciated, and if people like to get in touch with me, it's www Dutch, Jeff That's all I have to say. Thanks again for the amazing experience. CK, onward, and upward, big love everybody.

And we'll see you next time.


If You Like This Episode, You’ll Like These Too